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1260 years The time period 538 to 1798 is it Proven?

While God seem to make sure we know and understand this time period. As God has mentioned it in 3 different ways Once as 1260 days once as 42 months and once as 3 ½ years (Time Times and a dividing of time.) It seems to be important To God that we understand this time period. The end of the time period is not hard to spot

We see clearly here how the Pope was taken prisoner by General Bertier 1798 on the command of Napoleon. While the papal estates was confiscated and the Roman Catholic Church was receiving the deadly wound. According to Revelation 13

On the other Hand the starting Date is not so easy to prove. We see generally how Vigilius being being made Pope by the Decree of Justinian as his General Belesarius deposed of Pope Silverius and replaced him with Vigilius. Some see this as a poor proof of the starting date being 538.

I hope you do not misunderstand I am well satisfied that the starting date is 538 I was just hoping some history buff out there may be able to show some more details to Bolster the 538 date. 

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Bible Reading for the Home says, "The year 538 A.D. may be set down, then, as the time when the papacy became an established power." 

I think history will show that the papacy, or the Roman Church system has always been established It was this church's influence, and its relationship, with the Roman Empire that made it established. 

With the influence of Constantine (A.D. 280-337), who made Christianity a “religion of power,” the bishops strengthened and increased their privileges. During this time there were five metropolises: Rome, Alexandria, Antioch, Constantinople, and Jerusalem. Rome in the West and Constantinople in the East gained greater prominence because of their locations (Mattox, 1961, p. 137). While the power of the episcopacy grew in these cities, so did the controversy over which of these two cities, and their representative churches and bishops, should have supremacy. http://www.apologeticspress.org/APContent.aspx?category=11&article=2386 

The establishment of this "Christian Church" was never in question. Constantine  made Christianity a “religion of power.  

Emperor Justinian acknowledged the bishop of Rome as head of all the churches, because of Rome's connections with the apostles ( Peter, Paul). 

The papacy, though not recognized as such until later centuries, has impressive credentials.Many popes in the first three centuries of the Christian era are obscure figures. Several suffer martyrdom along with members of their flock in periods of persecution. Most of them are much involved in theological argument with other bishops, as the young church flexes its doctrinal muscles.The change to a very different role comes during the brief pontificate of Miltiades (311-314). In 313 he holds a council openly in Rome, at the behest of the emperor, in the Lateran palace. A lasting link, between the papacy and temporal power, has begun. And there are immediate signs of the change.Read more: http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/PlainTextHistories.asp?historyid=ac65#ixzz3XUf6sbvE 

According to the Liber Pontificalis, Miltiades was African. He was possibly a North African native from Berber people,[3] although scholar Richard P. McBrien states he was probably Roman… During his pontificate, in October 312, Constantine defeated Maxentius and assumed control over Rome. Constantine presented the pope with the Lateran Palace, which became the papal residence and seat of Christian governance. Early in 313, Constantine and fellow Emperor Licinius reached an agreement at Milan that they would grant freedom of religion to the Christians and other religions and restore church property. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Miltiades 

The point I’m making here is that the papacy was well established in 538 AD, it had a relationship with the Roman Empire, just as we are told in Revelation 17. 

...I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet colored beast....

Gene: The point I’m making here is that the papacy was well established in 538 AD, it had a relationship with the Roman Empire, just as we are told in Revelation 17. 

...I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet colored beast.... 

-

According to Catholics the papacy has been around since Peter. 

The '1260' is the papal catholic BEAST that FORCED Catholicism on the empire - the holy roman empire, and persecuted the saints.

FOUR beasts in Daniel 7: Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greek, and Roman Empires.

Beast is synonymous with empire.

The 1260 papal empire was catholic, and could only be the holy roman empire, that Napoleon ended by arresting the pope, and ending the Papal States. From this time on the HRE had no power. A NEW empire had taken over.

This NEW Empire - the 8th head of the roman beast otherwise known as 'beast from the earth' (Rev 13) and 'pit beast' (Rev 11 & 17) - was NOT Catholic. We no longer have a Catholic empire forcing everyone to worship a certain way. (but the Vatican still runs it.)

Gene 

I think history will show that the papacy, or the Roman Church system has always been established It was this church's influence, and its relationship, with the Roman Empire that made it established. 

It depends how you look at it Gene. You will find that the Papacy was not a political power before Belesarius installed Vigilius as the Pope That was a Political appointment, made for purely political reasons.  

JameS 

Yes thank you for pointing out that mistake. It should be 42 I made the mistake of writing 48 I am sorry about that.

The FACT is that there are so many time periods relating to Rome means that it is not so clear.

  • 312 AD to 1572
  • 606 AD to 1866
  • 538 AD to 1798
  • 756 AD to 2016

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day-year_principle#1260_year_prophecy

Also some use the year 533 and 1793.

But I believe the year 1798 fits well.

"Catholic emperors of the eastern empire found ways to help the pope by eliminating three of the Arian tribes. The Catholic emperor Zeno (474 to 491) arranged a treaty with the Ostrogoths in 487 which resulted in the eradication of the kingdom of the Arian Heurls in 493. And the Catholic emperor Justinian (527 to 565) exterminated the Arian Vandals in 534 and significantly broke the power of the Arian Ostrogoths in 538. Thus were Daniels three horns the Heuels, the Vandals, and the Ostrogoths plucked up by the roots." (C. Mervyn Maxwell, God Cares, vol.1, Daniel, p.129, Pacific Press Publishing Association, 1981.) 

One thing is certain, we are talking about the papal beast. No other kingdom ruled that long.

1260 days

Dn 7:25, time, times and a half
Dn 12:7, time, times and a half
Rv 11:2, 42 months
Rv 11:3, 1260 days
Rv 12:6, 1260 days
Rv 12:14, time, times and a half
Rv 13:5, 42 months

James 

The scriptures says 

...and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. 

The operative word here is continue. The only power that was in a position to continue was the Roman Empire... thus the question,  who is able to make war with him?  Certainly this can't be speaking of the papacy. The Roman Empire beast was to continue; when the deadly wound healed 

3And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed...5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.  

 The deadly wound heals before the continuation of the 42 months, therefore 1798 cannot be the initiation  of the deadly wound. 

James, you gave me some information earlier, the writer also has a dilemma with the 1260 year period; here's what he said. 

To the Roman beast, in its Papal constitution, was given (by the dragonic imperial decree from Constantinople) authority to dictate to the world in spiritual things. The Roman Pontiff, in his official utterances, was this mouth, whose great speakings were blasphemies. Power also to wield the sword, in the enforcement of the ecclesiastical ascendancy, was accorded by the same settlement of things, by the Constantinople (dragonic) ordinance. The duration of that power was not defined in the dragonic decree; but it was fixed in the counsels of Providence. The Papacy was to possess the power for forty-two months (1,260 days or years). We are living at the end of the period, and can see that the word of God has been fulfilled. Exactly 1,260 years from its first institution by the Emperor Justinian, in A.D. 535, viz  

The dilemma, you cannot have 2 fatal wounds (A.D 476, and 1798). Here’s what the writer says,  

But the first institution of Papal power was only preliminary, and therefore 1,260 years from that time could not be the full termination. Its confirmation and establishment by Phocas, in 606-8, supplied another starting-point for the forty and two months. Reckoned from this date, we are conveyed to the events of A.D. 1867, when the French, on their return, rescued the Pope from Garibaldi, took possession of the so-called "Holy City", and virtually terminated the Pope's power to make war against his enemies. Three years later even the shadow of THE TEMPORAL POWER disappeared in the conflict between France and Germany; and, at the present moment, [That is, in 1880] the Pope is known among his friends as "the prisoner of the Vatican." His power is gone.  

I believe that the Roman Empire beast continued, but the question is when did the continuation begin? The Roman Empire beast  transformed into the Holy Roman Empire 

11And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. 12And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 
 

After 752, the Emperor was not able to enforce the traditional caesaropapal system, and soon the Papacy was finding ways the exploit the power vacuum. Instead of the Church being subject the Emperor, it would be much better for the Western Church to have the Empire being subject to the Bishop of Rome... 

...but now the caesaropapal system was replaced by a theocracy. All that was needed now was an unsuspecting ruler to play the part of subordinate Emperor. Charles I, King of the Franks and King of Italy, was duly crowned as a Holy Roman Emperor in the year 800. Charlemagne, as he is better known, became first emperor in Western Europe since the collapse of the Western Roman Empire three centuries earlier. A long line of German successors were also considered to be Roman Emperors. It is for this reason that up until 1918, the King of the Germans was styled Caesar, or in German, Kaiser. http://www.badnewsaboutchristianity.com/ad0_emperors.htm

Gene Said: The operative word here is continue. The only power that was in a position to continue was the Roman Empire... thus the question,  who is able to make war with him?  Certainly this can't be speaking of the papacy. The Roman Empire beast was to continue; when the deadly wound healed 

I think Gene you get the players mixed up here as we see in Daniel the Little Horn Comes out of the terrible beast In Revelation that picture is not shown because the reader is assumed to have read Daniel and understand that the Roman Empire gave away to the papacy.  

Gene 

You claim....  

The scriptures says 

...and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. 

The operative word here is continue. The only power that was in a position to continue was the Roman Empire... thus the question,  who is able to make war with him?  Certainly this can't be speaking of the papacy. The Roman Empire beast was to continue; when the deadly wound healed 

3And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed...5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.  

 The deadly wound heals before the continuation of the 42 months, therefore 1798 cannot be the initiation  of the deadly wound. 

The wound is in v10.

In Rev 13, are given descriptors of this beast in v1 through v8, then God's prophetic timeline continues with v9, followed by the 'wound' in v10. Next, v11 comes a new head of the roman beast.

This agrees with Daniel 2 & 7

7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

-

We know the Roman empire followed the Greek empire, the fourth beast is the Roman empire. But, there comes a time period of 1260 years. The papal king & empire were to continue 1260 years. As we read in Daniel...

7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings. And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

The papal catholic empire was to continue 1260 years.

Gene, you are trying to squeeze a lot of time in to Rev 13. I'm showing you Rev 11 through 18 is about this same time period of around 1798 when the HRE (7th head) ended and a new empire (8th head) began. Although this is not entirely the SDA eschatology today, there is but one truth found in Bible prophecy - the faith of Jesus, for if you understand Jesus you will understand what he is saying.

Jesus tells us it is a salvation issue:

Rev 17:8 The beast that you saw was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

...........Sabbath blessings!

Thank You Pastor T a lot of interesting information there.

Pastor T, what did he say??? I didn't understand a word of it.

Pastor Jon Paulien is one of the Best Scholars SDA has on the Book of Revelation.

Lazarus,

I wasn't questioning Pastor Jon Paulien intellectual scholarly knowledge, which is obvious by the work presented. I’m just saying, basically, I didn’t understand a word of it.

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