Is the number of 144,000 a literal number of souls, or are they a special class of souls amoung the multitudes of souls to be in Heaven? After the flood, only 8 people survived that one....
...and is it good enough for us to not strive to BE one of the 144,000, but to just barely get inside the gates of Heaven? I heard a preacher one Sabbath say: " I don't care if I'm not a part of the 144,000, I just wanna get in" He may have been exhorting his sense of humor, but the desception is present in his statement. Often, satan will wrap his desceptions in humor, to get them past our inner securities, and we readily accept them while we laugh at them, all the while, not realizing that we've just been duped!
So, are we, or are we not to strive to be one of the 144,000 ???
Hi Jared read this
Throughout this study it must be remembered that the term “harvest” is used in the Scriptures in more than one sense in its application to the carrying out the plan of salvation. Here are two principal uses of the word as illustrated by texts of Scripture:
( 1) The word “harvest” is used to represent the gathering of souls into the church of God by the preaching of the gospel throughout the world before the close of probation. In this case, the reapers are the faithful men and women who teach the gospel to others.
Concerning this harvest, Christ said, “The harvest truly is plenteous, but the labourers are few; pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.” (Matt.9:37,38).
Again: “Say not ye, There are yet four month, and then cometh harvest? Behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the field; for they are white already to harvest. ( John 4:35 ).
(2). The term “harvest” is used also to represent the gathering of the righteous and the wicked to their respective fates by angel and not by men at the second coming of Christ, to judge every man according as his work shall be, after the close of probation.
In the parable of the wheat and the tares the householder said, “Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.” (Matt 13: 30).
In explaining the parable, Christ declared: “The harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels (not men). As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angel (not men), and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; and shall cast them into a furnace of fire; there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.” ( Matt. 13:34-39).
John say: “And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, THRUST IN THY SICKLE, AND REAP: for the time is come for THEE TO REAP; FOR THE HARVEST OF THE EARH IS RIPE. And he (CHRIST) that sat on the cloud THRUST HIS SICKLE ON THE EARTH; AND THE EARTH (NOT ONLY THE CHURCH) WAS REAPED. And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also a sharp sickle. And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for the grapes are fully riper. And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gather the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.” ( Rev. 14:14-19 ).
These two important sense in which the term “harvest” is used in the Scriptures need to be kept clearly in mind by those who would not be led off into paths of error.
The Shepherd’s Rod Teaching.
The Shepherd’s Rod theory confuses the whole question of the harvest by taking texts that refer to the harvest in which the good and the bad are gather unto their respective fates by holy angels after the close of probation, and applying them to that harvest in which souls are gathered into the church by gospel laborers before the close of probation.
To bolster the theory that a theocratic kingdom of David will be set up for God’s people on earth-specifically in Palestine-before the close of probation, Victor T. Houteff has divided the harvest of the parable of the wheat and tares into two sections, with two separations, two closing of probation, and two comings of Christ. ( Read V.T. Houteff , The judgment and the Harvest (1942), pp, 52,68.)
In presenting his view of that harvest, Mr. Houteff says: “Note that the separation takes place just at the beginning of the harvest; also that the tares are gathered in first. The separation marks the beginning of harvest. The harvest is the loud cry of the third angel’s message.” ( The Shepherd’s rod vol 1 (1930), p 104.
He says also: “Note that in the first section of the separation, the one in the church, the wicked are taken away from the just, whereas in the second, the one in Babylon, the just are called from among the wicked.” ( The Judgement and the Harvest (1942), 68.
Again he says: “Since these escaped ones ( the first fruits, the 144.000 servants of God-Rev. 7:3) ‘shall bring all your brethren’ (the second fruits, the great multitude-Rev. 7:9), for and offering…out of all nation’ (Isa.66:20, first part), this great ingathering necessarily, therefore, is he closing work of the gospel-the second section of the harvest.” Ibid., p 70
According to the chart presented in The Shepherd’s Rod, volume 1 , edition 1930, page 224, the harvest referred to in the parable of the wheat and tares was to begin a the close of the year 1930, or the beginning of 1931, with the effort of Houteff to call out the 144.000 for the special work that he had outlined for them to do the harvest of the wheat. “And it is given to those who are to proclaim the gospel now to gather in the saints and wipe out the wicked.” ( 11 Symbolic Code 6:15). But the harvest of the tares would be, in his opinion, the slaughter of the Seventh-day Adventist who reject his message, for thus he supposed that the slaughter predicted in Ezekiel 9 would be fulfilled. ( See also his tract The Answerer, no. 1 (1944), p 94,95).
Mr. Houteff, in his tract The Judgment and the Harvest, edition of 1942, pages 42, 43, 49, 67, alleges that the parable of the fish net cast to the sea, as recoreded in Matthew 13:47-50, refers to the same thing.
Hence the Shepherd’s Rod theory concerning the parable of the wheat and the tares is that “the harvesting itself necessarily precedes the close of probation.”-The Judgment and the Harvest (1942) 66. I inquire, is that doctrine sound ?
Now led see it in the light of the Pen of Inspiration. Let see what the true messenger of the Lord have to say on the subject of the Wheat and the tares, the parable. And the WORD OF GOD!
“TO THE LAW AND TO THE TESTIMONY (ELLEN G. WHITE, WRITTINGS: IF THEY SPEAK NOT ACCORDING TO THIS WORD (THE BIBLE), IT IS BECAUSE THERE IS NO LIGHT IN THEM (THE SHEPHERD’S ROD).” Isaiah 8:20.
Teaching of the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy.
The Shepherd’s Rod teaching does not harmonize with that of the Bible and the Spirit of prophecy concerning the parable of the wheat and the tares.
In His interpretation of the parable of the wheat and the tares, Christ said, “The harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angles. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; and shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.” (Matt. 13:39-43)
Jesus do not need now interpretation, He can explained for Himself. Check it out.
In His interpretation of the parable of the fish net, Christ said, “So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels (not men) shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, and shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.” Matt.13:49,50.
Note that Christ, in explaining the parable, emphasizes two things: (1) that the harvest in which the separation of the bad from the good is to take place will occur at the end of the WORLD; and (2) that the reaper, the agents by which he will effect that harvest or separation, will be His angels, and not (“And it is given to those who are to proclaim the gospel (144.000) now to gather in the saints and wipe out the wicked.” 11 Symbolic Code 6:15.).
Ellen G. White, “The great final separation of the righteous and the wicked he (Christ) had pictured in the parables of the wheat of tares and the fishing net.” (The Desire of Ages, p. 333, italic added.)
This statement by Mrs. White makes it plain that in the parable of the wheat and the tares, and in that of the fish net, Christ did not refer to the investigative judgment, which takes place before the close of probation, and which decides who among God’s professed people shall be accepted or rejected as candidate for entrance the kingdom of glory. But He was speaking of the “great final separation” of the righteous and the wicked, which will take place after the close of probation. Hence Mrs. White comments:
“When the mission of the gospel is completed, the judgment will accomplish the work of separation…But the parable of the tares and that of the net plainly teach that there is no time (Pr-Millennium kingdom) when all wicked will turn to God. The wheat and the tares grow together until the harvest. The good and the bad fish are tighter drawn ashore for final separation.
“Again, these parables teach that there is to be no probation after the judgment. When the work of the gospel is completed, there immediately follows the separation between the good and the evil, and the destiny of each class is forever fixed.”-( Christ’s Object Lessons, p. 122,123. Italics added.
Since the separation between the good and the evil will take place when the gospel work is completed, that separation must follow, and not precede, the close of probation. So Mrs. White consistently says”
“The tares and the wheat are to grow together until the harvest is the end of probationary time.” Ibid., 72, italics added.
“The wheat and the tares grow together until the harvest, the end of the world.” Ibid., 75, italics added.
“Till the end of time there will be tare among the wheat,” The Ministry of Healing, 493, italics added.
“Although there are evil existing in the church and will be until the end of the world, the church in these last days is to be the light of the world that is polluted and demoralized by sin.” Testimonies to Ministers 49, italics added
“He (Christ) has said that false brethren will be found in the church till the close of time.” ( Christ’s Object Lessons, 73, italics added.
Do you see the consistently between the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy?
Their is now consistently between the SR message and Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy.
Ladyeve, you are confusing the latter rain that brings on the loud cry with the sealing.
Yes, we are being sealed (for the Lord) now, or marked (for Satan) but our characters are not fixed - sealed - until after the persecutions of the universal Sunday law, . Only he who endures til the end will be sealed just before the second coming, when the winds are let go. This happens sometime around the universal death decree.
The texts and statements have been provided. Please address those.
Teresa, you must understan one thing Ladyeve is a Shepherd's Rod. She is totally confusing!
I know Benicio, I identified her a couple of years ago or so. :)
EGW: "Many do not realize what they must be in order to live in the sight of the Lord without a high priest in the sanctuary through the time of trouble. Those who receive the seal of the living God and are protected in the time of trouble must reflect the image of Jesus fully. Their robes must be spotless, their characters must be purified from sin by the blood of sprinkling. Through the grace of God and their own diligent effort, they must be conquerors in the battle with evil. While the investigative judgment is going forward in heaven, while the sins of penitent believers are being removed from the sanctuary, there is to be a special work of purification, of putting away of sin, among God’s people upon earth."
To me EGW is saying, when the time of trouble is happening, the people are sealed already.
How can someone go through the time of trouble if they aren't sealed already?
Your saying, the people who goes through the time of trouble will receive the seal.. I'm saying the people who goes through the time of trouble are sealed already. Because when the time of trouble comes, there is no Salvation anymore, no High Priest... and we all know when that happens, those who are holy stays holy and those who unholy stays unholy.
I did not say that the 144,000 would not be sealed by the time of the time of trouble. If you are sure I did, please point out the post, EXACT WORDING.
Going through the persecution of the Sunday law enforcement is not the same as the time of trouble. Probation will have closed and all will have been either sealed with God's character, or marked with Satan's character when the time of trouble comes.
I'm sorry if I misunderstood you... Let me make sure I'm understanding you correctly...
Who do you believe will give the Loud cry? and what is the purpose of the loud cry?
Do you believe 144,000 are sealed/fitted before the Loud cry, during it or after?
Three simple questions here, this will help me understand what your trying to show me... Thanks :)
Perhaps you could go back through my posts and show me what you are having a hard time understanding in them?
Lol... If you answer some of my questions, then I can understand where your coming from. Thanks... If you have any questions for me, please feel free to ask... :)
Hi Ladyeve I have ask you a simple question, do you believe the the 144.000 and will procliam the Loud Cry?
If Yes show me that statement from the Spirit of Prophecy. Place!!!
She disappears every time I have asked her questions like that. :)