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Revelation 7:4-8

King James Version (KJV)

 4And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel..

. There are still some misunderstanding surrounding this sealing. Shed some light.

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Again this is for who Clement.

I have come to believ that while there will be many more than that saved adn taken up in to heaven of course that that will be the number of faithfull still alive on the earth when Christ comes. Some who dispute this position I think may be failing to take in to account the fact that the Bible says n Matthew 24: 21-22 

"21   For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22  And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. "


Most who are alive during the time of the tribulation it seems will either be put to rest by God, or mattered.


I would strongly suggest a wonderful book that I have found to be incredibly Biblicaly sound on the subject called. "144,000 The Great Multitude & The Return of Jesus" by Colin Standish.

If you would rather watch him lecture on the issue here is a link.I actually had the privilege of attending this lecture personally, as it was here in AZ. This man is truly one of the drear wise old saints that we don't have enough of. Though I will warn you that he is a very old man now and not as passionate in his speech as he was able to be when he was a bit younger, so you may enjoy the book a bit more..

He is articulate, and obviously spirit filled, but slow speaking..

Thanks Pauly, welcome to the discussion. Is the presenter a SDA (straight). I do not want to watch or read a view that is different from the Bible.



Sis. Redva

Here's what I just found from the Pen of Inspiration

Here is Ellen G. White's basic statement on the 144,000 of Revelation 7 and 14:

Upon the crystal sea before the throne, that sea of glass as it were mingled with fire,--so resplendent is it with the glory of God,--are gathered the company that have "gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name." With the Lamb upon Mount Zion, "having the harps of God," they stand, the hundred and forty and four thousand that were redeemed from among men; and there is heard, as the sound of many waters, and as the sound of a great thunder, "the voice of harpers harping with their harps." And they sing "a new song" before the throne, a song which no man can learn save the hundred and forty and four thousand. It is the song of Moses and the Lamb--a song of deliverance. None but the hundred and forty-four thousand can learn that song; for it is the song of their experience--an experience such as no other company have ever had. "These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever He goeth." These, having been translated from the earth, from among the living, are counted as "the first fruits unto God and to the Lamb." Revelation 15:2, 3; 14:1-5. "These are they which came out of great tribulation;" they have passed through the time of trouble such as never was since there was a nation; they have endured the anguish of the time of Jacob's trouble; they have stood without an intercessor through the final outpouring of God's judgments. But they have been delivered, for they have "washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." "In their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault" before God. "Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple: and He that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them." They have seen the earth wasted with famine and pestilence, the sun having power to scorch men with great heat, and they themselves have endured suffering, hunger, and thirst. But "they shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes." Revelation 7:14-17. (The Great Controversy, pp. 648, 649)

Thank you madam and God bless you

OK Clement you are welcome. blessings.


Sis. Redva

…they (144,000) have stood without an intercessor through the final outpouring of God's judgments.

This takes place from the close of the antitypical Day of Atonement to the first day of the antitypical Feast of Tabernacles.

  • The fit man left for the wilderness with the scapegoat at the close of the day of atonement and to return from the wilderness by the first day of the feast of tabernacles. The fit man washing himself before he enters the camp/Jerusalem is the prophecy of the translation of the 144,000.

They (144,000) have seen the earth wasted with famine and pestilence, the sun having power to scorch men with great heat, and they themselves have endured suffering, hunger, and thirst.

  • For four days the fit man dealt with rugged landscape, burning sand, scorching sun, freezing cold nights plus getting rid of the goat which is just as enduring as himself.
    • Goats don’t like to be separated from a companion or someone that it deems as a companion. They can run at pretty good clip, ascend up steep rugged crags, have very good eyesight and a good sense of smell and they are very intelligent animal.
    • This is the very reason why the, suppose fit man, pushed the goat over the cliff. This act was ruining the true significances of this prophecy.  This, suppose fit man, knows within himself, he is unable to leave the goat alive in the wilderness without the goat following him back to the camp/Jerusalem.  Even if he took the goat 12 miles away from the camp/Jerusalem.
    • The true significances: is that Satan and his agencies are hunting down the living saints in every nook and cranny, mountains, valleys, caves, deserts, etc.  

As Satan influenced Esau to march against Jacob, so he will stir up the wicked to destroy God's people in the time of trouble. And as he accused Jacob, he will urge his accusations against the people of God. He numbers the world as his subjects; but the little company who keep the commandments of God are resisting his supremacy. If he could blot them from the earth, his triumph would be complete. He sees that holy angels are guarding them, and he infers that their sins have been pardoned; but he does not know that their cases have been decided in the sanctuary above. He has an accurate knowledge of the sins which he has tempted them to commit, and he presents these before God in the most exaggerated light, representing this people to be just as deserving as himself of exclusion from the favor of God. He declares that the Lord cannot in justice forgive their sins and yet destroy him and his angels. He claims them as his prey and demands that they be given into his hands to destroy.

As Satan accuses the people of God on account of their sins, the Lord permits him to try them to the uttermost (without an intercessor: jk). Their confidence in God, their faith and firmness, will be severely tested. As they review the past, their hopes sink;

GC 619

for in their whole lives they can see little good.

Here are some quotes I have taken from Daniel and the Revelation by Uriah Smith. I have found this book to be a blessing and it has helped me greatly. I know some do not share the same sentiment toward this particular book that I do but I am sharing what I feel will help you.

"Seal of the Living God.--It is the distinguishing characteristic of the ascending angel that he bears with him the seal of the living God. From this fact and the chronology of his work we are to determine if possible what movement is symbolized by his mission. The nature of his work is evidently suggested by his having the seal of the living God. To ascertain what his work is, we must determine what the seal of the living God is.

A seal is defined to be an instrument of sealing, that which "is used by individuals, corporate bodies, and states, for making impressions on wax, upon instruments of writing, as an evidence of their authenticity." The original word in this text is defined, "A seal, i.e., a signet ring; a mark, stamp, badge; a token, a pledge." The verb signifies: "To secure to any one, to make sure; to set a seal or mark upon anything in token of its being genuine or approved; to attest, to confirm, to establish, to distinguish by a mark." With these definitions as a basis, we compare Genesis 17: 11 with Romans 4: 11, and Revelation 7: 3 with Ezekiel 9: 4, and find that the words "token," "sign," "seal," and "mark" are used in the Bible as synonymous terms. The seal of God brought to view in our text is to applied to the servants of God. In this case it is not some literal mark to be made in the flesh, but some institution or observance having special reference to God, which will serve as a "mark of distinction" between the worshipers of God and those who are not His servants, though they may profess to follow Him.

A seal is used to render valid or authentic any enactments or laws that a person or power may promulgate. Frequent instances of its use occur in the Scriptures. In 1 Kings 21: 8, we read that Jezebel "wrote letters in Ahab's name, and sealed them with his seal." These letters then had all the authority of King Ahab. Again, in Esther 3: 12: "In the name of King Ahasuerus was it written, and sealed with the king's ring." So also in Esther 8: 8: "The writing which is written in the king's name, and sealed with the king's ring, may no man reverse."

A seal is used in connection with some law or enactment that demands obedience, or upon documents that are to be made legal, or subject to the provisions of law. The idea of law is inseparable from a seal.

We are not suppose that to the enactments and laws of God binding upon men, there must be attached a literal seal, made with literal instruments. From the definition of the term, and the purpose for which a seal is used, as shown before, we must understand a seal to be strictly that which gives validity and authenticity to enactments and laws. This is found in the name of signature of the lawmaking power, ex-pressed in such terms as to show what power is, and its right to make laws and demand obedience. Even with a literal seal, the name must always be used as indicated in the references given above. An instance of the use of the name alone seems to occur in Daniel 6: 8: "Now, O king, establish the decree, and sign the writing, that it be not changed, according to the law of the Medes and Persians, which altereth not." In other words, affix the signature of royalty, which shows who it is that demands obedience, and what his right is to demand it.

In the prophecy of Isaiah 8, we read: "Bind up the testimony, seal the law among My disciples." This must refer to a work of reviving in the minds of the disciples some of the claims of the law which have been overlooked, or perverted from their true meaning. In the prophecy this is called sealing the law, or restoring to it its seal, which had been taken from it.

The 144,000 who in the chapter before us are said to be sealed with the seal of God in their foreheads, are again brought to view in Revelation 14: 1, where they are said to have the Father's name written in their foreheads.

What Is the Seal of God?--From the foregoing reasoning, facts, and declarations of Scripture, two conclusions inevitably follow:

1. The seal of God is found in the law.

2. The seal of God is that part of His law which contains His name, or descriptive title, showing who He is, the extent of His dominion, and His right to rule.

The law of God is admitted by all the leading evangelical denominations to be summarily contained in the decalogue, or ten commandments. We have, then, but to examine these commandments to see which one it is that constitutes the seal of the law, or in other words, makes known the true God, the lawmaking power.

The first three commandments mention the word "God," but we cannot tell from these who is meant, for there are multitudes of objects to which this name is applied. There are "gods many and lords many," as the apostle says. (1 Corinthians 8: 5.) We pass over the fourth commandment for the time being. The fifth contains the words "Lord" and "God," but does not define them, and the remaining five precepts do not contain the name of God at all. With that part of the law which we have examined, it would be impossible to convict the grossest idolater of sin. The worshiper of images could say, This idol before me is my god, and I worship him according to this law. Thus without the fourth commandment the decalogue is null and void, as far as it pertains to the definition of the worship of the true God.

But let us now add the fourth commandment, restore to the law this precept, which many are ready to contend has been expunged, and see how the case will then stand. As we examine this commandment, which contains the declaration, "For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is," we see at once that we are reading the requirements of Him who created all things. The sun then is not the God of the decalogue. The true God is He who made the sun. No object in heaven or earth is the being who here demands obedience, for the god of this law is the one who made all created things. Now we have a weapon against idolatry. Now this law can no longer be applied to false gods, who "have not made the heavens and the earth." Jeremiah 10: 11. The Author of this law has declared who He is, the extent of His dominion, and His right to rule; for every created intelligence must at once assent that He who is the Creator of all has a right to demand obedience from all His creatures. Thus the fourth commandment in its place, this wonderful document, the decalogue, the only document among men which God ever wrote with His own finger, has a signature, it has that which renders it intelligible and authentic, it has a seal. But without the fourth commandment, the law is incomplete and unauthoritative."

I have only quoted a portion of the text (above) and not the entire thing for sake of space and to make it an exhausting read....or at least too much.

I will skip down to the section titled "The Number to be Sealed"....
Te seal of God is found among His righteous law - specifically the 4th or the Sabbath commandment. This seal will be applied after or at the time when the Sunday Law is passed. This has to do with His people choice of worship which is the whole issue that surrounds the controversy. This is somewhat clear.

John's attention was called to another scene: "And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God" (Revelation 7:2). Who is this? The Angel of the covenant. He comes from the sunrising. He is the Dayspring from on high. He is the Light of the world. "In Him was life; and the life was the light of men" (John 1:4). This is the One Isaiah describes: "Unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given: and the government shall be upon His shoulder; and His name shall be called Wonderful,


Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace" (Isaiah 9:6). He cried, as One who had superiority over the hosts of angels in heaven "to whom it was given to hurt the earth, and the sea, saying, "hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads" (Revelation 7:2, 3).  {15MR 221.3} 
     Here is the divine and human united. The command is given to the four angels to hold in check the four winds until they receive His summons. Read the entire chapter. The cry, "Hurt not," is uttered by the Restorer, the Redeemer.  {15MR 222.1} 
     Judgment and wrath were to be repressed only for a little space until a certain work was done. The message, the last message of warning and mercy, has been retarded in doing its work by the selfish love of money, the selfish love of ease, and the unfitness of man to do a work that needs to be done. The angel that is to lighten the earth with His glory has waited for human instrumentalities through whom the light of heaven could shine, and they thus cooperate to give, in its sacred, solemn importance, the message which is to decide the destiny of the world.  {15MR 222.2}

Jesus personally delivers this message.

I saw angels hurrying to and fro in heaven, descending to the earth, and again ascending to heaven, preparing for the fulfillment of some important event. Then I saw another mighty angel commissioned to descend to the earth, to unite his voice with the third angel, and give power and force to his message. Great power and glory were imparted to the angel, and as he descended, the earth was lightened with his glory. The light which attended this angel penetrated everywhere, as he cried mightily, with a strong voice, "Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird." The message of the fall of Babylon, as given by the second angel, is repeated, with the additional mention of the corruptions which have been entering the churches since 1844. The work of this angel comes in at the right time to join in the last great work of the third angel's message as it swells to a loud cry. And the people of God are thus prepared to stand in the hour of temptation, which they are soon to meet. I saw a great light resting upon them, and they united to fearlessly proclaim the third angel's message.  {EW 277.1}

     Angels were sent to aid the mighty angel from heaven, and I heard voices which seemed to sound everywhere, "Come out of her, My people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities." This message seemed to be an addition to the third message, joining it as the midnight cry joined the second angel's message in 1844. The glory of God rested upon the
patient, waiting saints, and they fearlessly gave the last solemn warning, proclaiming the fall of Babylon and calling upon God's people to come out of her that they might escape her fearful doom.  {EW 277.2}


This message is an addition to the third angel's message.


The passing of the time in 1844 was a period of great events, opening to our astonished eyes the cleansing of the sanctuary transpiring in heaven, and having decided relation to God's people upon the earth, [also] the first and second angels' messages and the third, unfurling the banner on which was inscribed, "The commandments of God and the faith of Jesus." One of the landmarks under this message was the temple of God, seen by His truth-loving people in heaven, and the ark containing the law of God. The light of the Sabbath of the fourth commandment flashed its strong rays in the pathway of the transgressors of God's law. CW 30


Under the third angel's message came the sabbath of the fourth commandment.


The Sabbath has been present truth since 1845, and being the seal of the law of God has been sealing the law among the people of God ever since that year.  Isa. 8:16 "Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples." This has been the work of the third angel, and for this reason the third angel has no seal, for the seal is in the law, but the angel of Revelation 7, has a seal in his hand.  Ezekiel calls him the man with the writer's inkhorn who is to set a mark upon the men who sigh and cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof (the church).  This is the seal of the 144,000, but all the saved under the third angel are sealed with the Sabbath seal.  The 144,000 having this seal are also marked (sealed) by the angel of Revelation 7, which is the same as the one of Ezekiel 9.  In other words, it may be termed a double seal.



Thanks Gordon, the angels are holding back and the people are been sealed. May God help us that we too receive the seal of the Living God.



Sis. Redva

What you call the addition message to the third angel's message? The SHEPHERD"S ROD message?


This is pure Davidain Doctrine. Gordon Elder.



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