Sexual immorality between one person and another outside of the prescribed boundaries of Gods will.
Now pornography is the display of fornication in imagery.
The question now seems to be, that imagery that is not photographic, but in a cartoon style is not pornography?
Why does one type of visual presentation that teaches the principles of fornication, become acceptable because it uses a form of visuals that is not drawn from real life?
If something promotes the idea of fornication, regardless of the media, it is still fornication.
Or are we saying that pornography is okay in different media, that fornication is okay in different media?
The very carnality of the fornicational thought process is the issue that God wants to protect us from. Those are not His thoughts and He does not want us to have those thoughts, engaging in anythying that promotes those thoughts is a rejection of the leading of the Holy Spirit.
As to the other side, shoud visual aids be used to educate couples on the sexual relationship?
That is another discussion and should not be mixed up with pornography.
Pornography is anything, whether in writing or in imagery, done for the purpose of stimulating wrong sexual desire.
Take, for instance, images in a medical textbook. The context is that of healing, making sick people healthy. So is a picture, in a medical book, of a woman's breast or a picture of a man's private organs examples of pornography The answer is no.
Is a picture of those same body parts as published in Playboy magazine, etc., pornography? Yes, since the pictures have two totally different purposes.
The same applies to the stories in the Bible. Some are very bloody and violent. Yet in their context, that of teaching about God's dealing with sin and rebellion, those stories are perfectly appropriate.
Above are the definitions of pornography that I use.
These definitions are different from those of Adultery and Fornication as are found in the bible which are:
Adultery: Matt 5;28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Fornication: 1Cor: 7-2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
With these clear definitions let us look at the question before us:
"Is it wrong for Christian Married Couples to watch pornographic materials?"
Now Gentlemen if the definitions are all correct is it not true and possible that in the privacy of their own homes Christian married couples wanting to learn more about their bodies and their sexuality CAN WATCH Pornographic Material Especially if the material is carefully chosen! I submit I lean toward yes. What say you? And this time use your Bibles or Sop as I have to support your position
Firstly, tony, you have nt used Bible or SoP to support your position. You have defined pornography and then you have used the Bible to define what happens when you watch pornography.
It is a selective application. In Matt.5:28 Christ defined that the sin begins and is nurtured in the mind. Lust was the root cause of the sin being conceived.
Paul addressed this in Galatians,
"For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only [use] not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
[This] I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh." (Gal 5:13-18)
He goes on to define the works of the flesh,
"Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, " (Gal.5:19)
("lascivious" - Exciting sexual desires)
The same thing is wrong with Christian married couples watching pornography as with non-Christian married couples. The difference is that Christian married couples *know* that it is wrong and they know why.
As you have said, pornography has no artistic merit and is designed purely to sexually arouse the person looking at it. It is lascivious. Don't try and pretend that it has been created for any other purpose.
Brother, if you want to use pornography that is your funeral (as the saying goes) but don't expect people to agree or condone what you are suggesting because it is very clear that pornography, at its final root, is satanic and evil. Please don't try and pretend that you can pick good fruit from a rotten tree.
Whether photographic or cartoon it all comes from the same evil background - there are no redeeming features so no point in trying to find any.
Seriously, you don't *need* pornography. What's needed is mutual love, that "soul-mate" love that God desires us to have between man and wife. So that they may know more about their bodies and sexuality as they explore each other with each other. The one important aspect which pornography does not have is the love and respect that a man and wife have for each other.
All sin begins in the mind and what pornography puts into the mind is certainly not going to lead you to heaven, it leads you to nurture sin in your mind.
"The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy" (James 4:5)
Doesn't what you know about God and His love for every one of us tell you that pornography is not for Christians?
"Love not the world, neither the things [that are] in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
For all that [is] in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever." (1 John 2:15-17)
I am gonna have to say, if you need assitance to know HOW to have better sex, maybe you are one who was not designed for it...Jesus said it is BETTER NOT TO MARRY,...Wouldnt this, just automatically include NOT HAVING SEX???... He, in fact, says it is a better choice
I think, in His design, sex is distractionary from His Father, and so, NOT NECESSARY...You can live a better life, without it...
That is first...
Second, MAYBE, IF you could get two consentual, ADVENTIST Bible believers to BE IN the performance you are going to LEARN from, you would almost invariably, be watching people in the act OF sin, and USING that sin, for WHATEVER reason, has GOT to be wrong...
By the by, I DOUBT you will find a Bible believeing Christian, Adventist or NOT, to be in the performance...And so, it would NOT be altruistic in nature, with the PURITY of the marriage bed still in tact...
The purity of the marriage bed WOULD BE DEFILED...I am sorry, but this is really just common Spiritual sense...
writings, pictures, or films designed to be sexually exciting"
From Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary:
noun [U] (INFORMAL porn) DISAPPROVING
books, magazines, films, etc. with no artistic value which describe or show sexual acts or naked people in a way that is intended to be sexually exciting but would be considered unpleasant or offensive by many people:"
So... is looking at the above compatible with your Christian walk?
Is it something Christ would do?
"Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things [are] honest, whatsoever things [are] just, whatsoever things [are] pure, whatsoever things [are] lovely, whatsoever things [are] of good report; if [there be] any virtue, and if [there be] any praise, think on these things." Philippians 4:8
Ps. 101:3I will set before my eyes no vile thing....
Job 31:1I have made a covenant with my eyes not to look lustfully at a girl
Matt. 5:28But i tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart
The word "pornography" comes from the Greek porneia, porneuo, and porne.
Porneia is translated "fornication" in the King James Version (Mat 5:32; John 8:41; Rom 1:29; 1 Corin 6:9,13,18; Gal 5:19; Rev 19:2; etc.).
Porneuo is the verb "to commit fornication," as in 1 Corin 6:18. Porne is translated "harlot" in Mat 21:31-32; 1 Corin 6:15; and Rev 17:5.
I Corinth 6:18-20 Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you whom you have received from God? You are not your won; you were bought at a price. Therefor honour God with your body. Now since pornography is all about vision, using eyes to view those porno stars or cartoons here are some examples what vision can lead to:-
David and Beersheba; Judah and the harlot; Samson and his women There's something in common with the above examples they all saw the ladies first before even they thought of having sex with them. This shows that whatever we see can lead us into sin and thus death, this is the reason why Christ taught that that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 2 Sam. 11:2-5...From the roof he saw a woman bathing Gen. 38:15 When Judah saw her, he thought she was a prostitute...
Judges 16:1 One day Samson went to Gaza, where he saw a prostitute. He went in to spend the night with her
Gen. 39:7...Now Joseph was well-built and handsome, and after a while his master's wife took notice of Joseph and said "Come to bed with me!"
It's evident that one of the ways we enter sin is through vision. We are made up of what we see. Every image we see is recorded in the brain. So either it's pornography with cartoon characters or not, it's an act of sexual immorality.
There are some educational literature with explicit images and viewer discretion is advised, but if you hit a porn store and pick for yourself an adult movie then it's pornography. So if you need to get to know about sexual styles i am pretty sure there are non-pornographic literature on the world wide web which can help married couples.
If I may respond in the order which the post's were made I should begin with Mark T. However there is a general thread in almost all the posts which VIOLATES Matt: 7;1-2 Remember the couple is CHRISTIAN and MARRIED. There is no Lust in the heart of either of them for the "Pics" they see. Let me illustrate my point/problem. If you watch Saving Private Ryan are you killing Germans in your mind. When you watch the news of the War in Iraq are you siding with the Americans Or the "insurgents"? I would want to believe you are purely collecting Information. So therefore why is the couple not seen as just gaining Information. There is no suggestion that the couple is viewing for entertainment of anything other than learning.
This thread of judging is prevalent through all the other texts used. So now for the Acid Test. When Mary Washed Jesus' feet with 'expensive perfume' one disciple and some other people had other thoughts about the purity of thought Mary had. The innocent woman was performing an act of the highest gratitude. However Judas thought she was wasting valuable money and modern scholars thought She and Jesus were in filial Love. Both were shown to be wrong by SOP writings and careful study of the Bible. Could you gentlemen be making the same error with reference to the couple.
Thank you Don for recognising that teaching is not merely Chalk and Talk. There are elements of learning and teaching that require far more than words from the text book and thus why Practical examinations are given in Most if not all Pure Sciences.
Now how can we proceed. Since It is a fact that "to look on another person Lustfully is sin how do we advise people who are desirous of learning about topics which "seem to be Taboo".
Quoth Tony: "Remember the couple is CHRISTIAN and MARRIED. There is no Lust in the heart of either of them for the "Pics" they see."
I'm a man and declare the above statement to be absolute hogwash! Since I am Christian and married, you are suggesting that I won't experience lust? Get real. That is not the way the sinful mind works. I need to carefully guard the avenues to my soul. Watching porn with my wife will NOT do that. It WILL cause sinful thoughts. Period. Full Stop. There really is not another option. If you think there is and you can remain holy, you are deluding yourself and perhaps justifying something you enjoy and wish it was not a sin.
It is simply naive to say that because a man and woman are married and Christians, that there is no lust in their heart and they could watch porn with totally pure thoughts. I cannot imagine even the sinless One deliberately watching it, to say nothing of a sinful, fallen man or woman. In my opinion-- going by the Bible and Ellen White-- I would say that anyone who believes they are strong enough to withstand Satan's temptations in that way is doing something very similar to what Eve did when she thought she could out-smart and overcome the tempter all by herself. It shows a lack of awareness of our weakness and of the power of sin.
Explain what exactly it is that they hope to learn from it that they cannot learn without watching a porn film, etc.
I've been married for 30 years and I can't understand what porn has to teach them. Believe me, it doesn't contain anything worth while to teach a Christian man or woman.