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Do you think that the Seventh-day Adventist church should allow hip hop in the church to draw the young people in? What do you think.

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Not just for church  but daily our choice should go to the best: never listening music from homossexuals , adulters, imoral& vicious people etc If this itsnt enough, its easy to search in web site how rock and others rythm are very harmful for our health!

If anyone want insist in the error, the time is coming soon that the time for decision is over!

Blessings! 

I concur with Denny and Charlie on this one. At some point, many instruments used today were banned and then eventually accepted. Just because one person was against the use of the drum does not mean it's a bad instrument or that it has no value.

 

And just as Denny has suggested, time transcends. What is accepted today was thought of unchristian like at one point. I see nothing wrong with spreading the gospel is different forms of music, whether it's Rock, Hip Hop, Rap or whatever. It's not the drum that makes music bad, it's the message that is being delivered.

 

Lets say there is a person who knows nothing about the lord, and he listens to someone who is performing their version of hip hop and the message is so profound that it draws that person into learning about the lord. Are you going to say, Ohhhh, this is bad because the music has drums in it. I don't think so.

 

At the end of the day, this is good topic to debate, and some people will see it in a conservative way, and others will see it in a more progressive way. Im my mind, the drum is no more harmful than the Organ, and as stated, that instrument was once considered "bad" too.

Bobby

 

One little point you overlooked.  I agree with the majority of what you wrote, however, there is at least one exception. 

 

WHO HAS SAID THAT A THING IS GOOD or BAD?

 

That is what makes the difference.  No inspired author has, to my knowledge ever listed the organ as bad.  However, this declaration has been made about the drum, by inspired authors.  Here is the statement, so that it can be taken in context.

     "Worship should not include a bedlam of noise.--It is impossible to estimate too largely the work that the Lord will accomplish through His proposed vessels in carrying out His mind and purpose. The things you have described as taking place in Indiana, the Lord has shown me would take place just before the close of probation. Every uncouth thing will be demonstrated. There will be shouting, with drums, music, and dancing. The senses of rational beings will become so confused that they cannot be trusted to make right decisions. And this is called the moving of the Holy Spirit.--2SM 36." {PaM 176.5}

It just seems to me that a divine evaluation outweights all human evaluations.  Don't you agree?  Of course the key word here is: "uncooth."  That is the major issue in this statement.  Then why did Ellen White fault the drums that were used in Indiana at the Campmeeting there? 

 

Because they were being used in a "uncooth" manner. 

 

This is what I mean by taking the comment in context. 

 

Also, there is another reason.  First of all my credentials to speak on this issue.  I have owned both a printing company as well as an advertizing agency.  I have spent a number of years in scholarly research on how the mind works and spent most of my working life in some manner of sales, which is working with the human mind.  This has given me a very broad overview of this area.  No, I do not know everything, but neither am I out of touch either, in this area.

 

The sound a drum makes is unique to all other instruments (excluding electronic instruments which can imitate the sound of the drum).  It creates a sound that penetrates the brain in such a way that it brings confusion to the thought processes.  So, it is very easy to misuse this instrument especially.  This is Satan's method to confuse issues.  The sound of a drum is very good at this process. 

 

The guitar can also be used in this manner, becasue of the sound made by certain ways of "picking" the strings.  These two, of all the instrument families, (electronic instrumentation is not being included here) tend to be the favorites of those who are playing, rap, jazz, and other forms of this genre of music. 

 

Before I comment further, I am fully aware that an organ can be misused, just like a harp can be misused.  In fact, I do not know of any instrument that is immune to being misused.  However, the drum and the guitar are two of the easiest to misuse.  Also, it takes less skill and knowledge of music to "play" these two instruments, than most.  Notice that I placed the word "play" in quotation marks.  There is a reason for that.  I have never picked or played a guitar in my life, however, from what I have observed, I could do at least as good of some examples of "guitar playing" that I have observed. 

 

As for the drum, I have played them just a little.  A close friend of mine is a professional drummer and he and I have talked about this at length.  So, much of my comments about the drum are drawn from those conversations, I am not just winging it in this area. 

 

Now on the positive side.  I have seen and heard drums played in certain settings where they add much to the quality of the music.  They are played with skill and do not attempt, in most cases, to drown out the other instruments.  They are most noticable used when some point in the piece is focused on.  Which, a drum can do in a manner that no other instrument can come close to, with the exception mentioned above.  However, they can also be used as foundation sounds for the other instruments being played.  In this manner, the listener may not even be aware that a drum is being used, unless they listen for it.

 

The last point is the argument that is very often used, not just with drums, but other things too.  That is the one you used when you said:

"Im my mind, the drum is no more harmful than the Organ, and as stated, that instrument was once considered "bad" too."

The "no worse than X" argument is a tacit admission that what is being defended is a bad thing.  In that statement, you have just labeled drums as being bad, however, in your opinion, no worse than X. 

 

Secondly, human opinion is the basis for the assessment, when God has given another assessment.  Which should be believe, you or God?  I beleive that the answer should be obvious.  And the "you" as I have used it here, also includes any human being, not just you or me, everyone.  No human carries even close to the status that God holds.  So, when He says something, that should be the end of the discussion.  When we argue with that conclusion, we are in fact demonstrating that we are not safe to save.

 

Maranatha :)
Ray

 

 

 

Whoever resorts to hip hop, rock, pop, what have you, to use in worship styles to God, has either intentionally or by not knowing (sounds nicer than ignorance) strayed away from Bible principle and SOP guidelines. 

 

Does not a 2/4 signature pull the flesh to want to dance? Is not melody and harmony supposed to be emphasized over beat/rhythm? Does not a drum amplify the rhythm? The drum is not evil, but it is to be used in certain circumstances :)  Like the trumpet. The trumpet was to make announcements of this or that sort. Why is the drum not used in the NT? At least I have not found it yet, but share if u have. 

 

Drums were not approved for the Levites either. This is found in 1 Chronicles 15: around verse 26 or so I believe. Near every context of drum use was war/battle/victory related. 

 

Lastly, for now, this is no ordinary time we are living in. It is very sad that many even Adventists, do not understand that we are in the Day of Atonement, let alone what it means. Hip hop does not fit in this context. Jus being real. Neither does rock music, or any of this modern worldly music. 

 

Ellen White btw said music would be made a snare in the latter days. Lets not pretend we are going to have obvious traps set upon us. They will be hard to notice, and subtle. She mentions drums, too, when talking in a disaproving manner in regards to a certain worship style involving music. 

 

References can be easily provided. 

Amen:)  We have forgotten the solemn Day of Atonement and its sacred worship principles.

Everything changes on the Day of Atonement....diet, dress, and worshiple style changes on the solemn feast day. We have been in the anti-typical Day of Atonement since 1844 (167 years), but yet we are retreating back to Egypt. Music is being made a snare just before the heavenly borders just like it was made a snare for the children of Israel on the Cannan borders.

 

Read "Apostasy At The Jordan" in Patriarchs And Prophets

"At Balaam's suggestion, a grand festival in honor of their gods was appointed by the king of Moab, and it was secretly arranged that Balaam should induce the Israelites to attend. He was regarded by them as a prophet of God, and hence had little difficulty in accomplishing his purpose. Great numbers of the people joined him in witnessing the festivities. They ventured upon the forbidden ground, and were entangled in the snare of Satan. Beguiled with music and dancing, and allured by the beauty of heathen vestals, they cast off their fealty to Jehovah. As they united in mirth and feasting, indulgence in wine beclouded their senses and broke down the barriers of self-control. Passion had full sway; and having defiled their consciences by lewdness, they were persuaded to bow down to idols. They offered sacrifice upon heathen altars and participated in the most degrading rites. It was not long before the poison had spread, like a deadly infection, through the camp of Israel. {PP 454-455}

You forgot to underline that they had been drinking.....which makes this case not applicable to the Ellen White statement listed.  In addition, this is NOT either directly or indirectly being made as a tribute to anyone else other that the LORD--Creator of Heaven and Earth.

 

It is very important that when we apply situations to the prophetic words of EGW that they be used in context and that the situation is similar/the same or it does not apply. 

I believe the point was that music was involved. 

Those things which have been in the past will be in the future. Satan will make music a snare by the way in which it is conducted.—Selected Messages 2:36, 38 (1900). {LDE 159.2}

Satan does not need us to be drunk to fall for this trap. Many of us are falling for it now :( 


And if this is in reference to Numbers chapter 25, then music most def plays a bigger than paid attention to part. I wrote a blog about it here. 

 

http://peculiartruth7.wordpress.com/2011/01/31/music-in-the-church-...

Sooooo....just because music is involved it is automatically "evil"?  Not working!

Jose', you will have to do much more than a one line quote from EGW writings.

What does "wine" symbolize prophetically???

 

We know that it represents the "wine of Babylon".....spiritual drunkeness. We as a church are drinking from the "wine of Babylon" when we accept Babylons music and Babylons false teachings. Revelation 3 says we are lukewarm...in other words, spiritually drunk. We dont know right from wrong and we are neither hot nor cold. This is the condition of God's church today.

 

...So this statement in PP 454 and the story of Numbers 25 is indeed APPLICABLE for us in the last days, "unto whom the ends of the world are come".

DMJ

 

Wine symbolilzes doctrines, teachings.  So, the "wine of Babylon" is symbolic of their false teachings, as you noted. 

 

When it speaks of the "wine of the wrath of God," it is speaking of the fact that we have been taught and forewarned of what God will do to those who fight against Him and go their own way.

 

We do not need to fight against God openly to be fighting God.  All we need to do is to ignore or refuse to do what He has told us to do.  That is fighting against God as much as anything else.  In fact, it may be worse, if we are claiming to love God.

 

Maranatha :)
Ray

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