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The SDA 28 Fundamentals has IJ as one of those pillars that upholds the platform we stand on. To my surprise I have noted some of the saints around here do not think there is any Investigative Judgement. So let us see if there is a Investigative Judgement or not. I have also noted that the same Saints do not subscribe to the writings of E G White. So I would prefer that we use the Bible only.

The SDA church does have the Investigative Judgement as one of its 28 fundamentals Quoting:

24. Christ's Ministry in the Heavenly Sanctuary:

There is a sanctuary in heaven, the true tabernacle which the Lord set up and not man. In it Christ ministers on our behalf, making available to believers the benefits of His atoning sacrifice offered once for all on the cross. He was inaugurated as our great High Priest and began His intercessory ministry at the time of His ascension. In 1844, at the end of the prophetic period of 2300 days, He entered the second and last phase of His atoning ministry. It is a work of investigative judgment which is part of the ultimate disposition of all sin, typified by the cleansing of the ancient Hebrew sanctuary on the Day of Atonement. In that typical service the sanctuary was cleansed with the blood of animal sacrifices, but the heavenly things are purified with the perfect sacrifice of the blood of Jesus. The investigative judgment reveals to heavenly intelligences who among the dead are asleep in Christ and therefore, in Him, are deemed worthy to have part in the first resurrection. It also makes manifest who among the living are abiding in Christ, keeping the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, and in Him, therefore, are ready for translation into His everlasting kingdom. This judgment vindicates the justice of God in saving those who believe in Jesus. It declares that those who have remained loyal to God shall receive the kingdom. The completion of this ministry of Christ will mark the close of human probation before the Second Advent. (Heb. 8:1-5; 4:14-16; 9:11-28; 10:19-22; 1:3; 2:16, 17; Dan. 7:9-27; 8:13, 14; 9:24-27; Num. 14:34; Eze. 4:6; Lev. 16; Rev. 14:6, 7; 20:12; 14:12; 22:12.)

28 fundamental Beliefs sdanet.org

The hour of the evening sacrifice arrives. The priest stands in the court of the Temple in Jerusalem ready to offer a lamb as sacrifice. As he raises the knife to kill the victim, the earth convulses. Terrified, he drops the knife and the lamb escapes. Over the din of the earthquake he hears a loud ripping noise as an unseen hand rends the veil of the Temple from top to bottom. What did the tearing of the veil really mean?

Across town, black clouds enshroud a cross. When Jesus, the Passover Lamb of God, calls out, "It is finished!" He dies for the sins of the world.

Type has met antitype. The very event the Temple services have pointed to through the centuries has taken place. The Saviour has completed His atoning sacrifice, and because symbol has met reality, the rituals foreshadowing this sacrifice have been superseded. Thus the rent veil, the dropped knife, the escaped lamb.

But there is more to salvation history. It reaches beyond the cross. Jesus' resurrection and ascension direct our attention to the heavenly sanctuary, where, no longer the Lamb, He ministers as priest. The once-for-all sacrifice has been offered (Heb. 9:28); now He makes available to all the benefits of this atoning sacrifice.

I have noted some of the saints here saying that the atonement was fulfilled on the cross. I wonder how this could be correct? We have many texts telling us that there is an ongoing Investigative Judgement happening in the heavenly courts at this very moment.

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I didn't say anything about doubting the IJ .All he said is it can't be proven using Dan. 8 and Dan. 9

If you don't believe what I'm saying, you don't think I'm telling the truth, right?

Anyway, if we believe EGW is a true prophet and she believes the IJ, shouldn't that be good enough?

Yes true Keith I am beginning to realize what you are trying to say. I was just going on your recent doubting Tomas form, Yes it is right that Dan. 8 and 9 will not tell you that by them self. But the question here in The OP was not about Dan. 8 and 9 it was about the 1844 and the IJ which encompass more than Dan. 8 and 9. Maybe if you go back to Stewart's thread the comment would be more fitting. I apologize for misunderstanding you.

You can prove IJ from Daniel 8 and 9, these chapters of Hebrew form block logic and must fit into Daniel 7. Read my comments on this before....

The concept is a silly as saying since tithe is not mentioned as a Hebrew word in the New Testament, tithing is no longer a part of God love....despite other context formed in the Old Testament.

Daniel 7 is an introduction and key to the rest of Daniel 8 and 9, and you have to read all three chapters together in one block. Not pick holes in each chapter on their own.

Shalom

Thank you Rob Yes I believe we also need to read chapter 7 together with 8 and 9. So we get a better understanding of the whole Picture.

"(IJ) can't be proven using Dan. 8 and Dan. 9"...

When the language is about a time period until the "sanctuary will be cleansed" and other parts of the Bible explain what that means (that the sanctuary is in heaven and examples from the ceremonial sanctuary services), it clearly is referring to the investigative judgment in Daniel 8 and 9.

It makes perfect sense that there would be an investigative judgment because throughout Bible history God always has the same pattern of investigating before He judges and following a covenant lawsuit process...    which is the same pattern He has followed all throughout the Bible before judgments have come (such as with Sodom and Gomorrah, the stoning of Stephen at the end of the probation of Jewish nation as God's chosen people, etc.).  Here is a good article that explains this with scriptural examples from throughout the Bible; https://www.ministrymagazine.org/archive/1992/04/investigative-judg...

The investigative judgment and covenant lawsuit process is largely for the purpose of demonstrating that God is fair and just before the universe.

We know that God is omniscient and knows everything, so he doesn’t need to spend that much time investigating for His own sake- but that’s no basis to claim that there will be no investigative judgment.  Let’s not forget that the whole reason sin is even allowed to continue for these few thousand years is to show the results of sin which will answer basic questions which Lucifer raised about the justice of God and whether He and His law are fair and reasonable.  

So it makes perfect sense that part of God’s answer to these question and accusations against His government would be to have a fair covenant lawsuit and investigative judgment process involved in every judgment He makes.

Not only that, but the investigative judgment doctrine is meant for our sanctification- which would be another reason why God would employ this teaching.  Those who understand that this process of investigative judgment is going before Christ’s soon return are lead to self-examine their characters and seek after perfection of mind and heart and soul, while those who claim “just grace” and “Jesus did it all at the cross” too simplistically may cast off restraint and not see the importance of striving for spiritual perfection and growth. 

Hello Vicki

Where in the Bible doesn't support sanctification through the investigative judgement, and where in the Bible that indicate that Jesus's sacrifice is not sufficient for forgiving sins. Amazing Grace, is what we rely on for salvation, not on a process in which our own actions are judged good or bad. We are sinful and deserve death. Our ability to do right because of the power of the Holy Spirit, not my own efforts. Therefore, salvation comes through the blood of Christ, not through my actions. If I am redeemed it is because I've invited the Holy Spirit in my life and I'm willing to submit his influence, and invest in the life to come. This process is very simplistic, and should not be complicated. However, we as human beings making complicated because we do not understand a system in which we are not allowed to delineate ourselves, or take credit for our actions.

 

Leon

Notice that I didn't say anything about Jesus' sacrifice not being sufficient to forgive sins. I said an awareness of His judgment process has a sanctifying influence- be careful not to mix up the semantics.  


You're right that salvation comes through the blood of Christ and as soon as we believe in Him and accept His sacrifice on our behalf we are given the gift of salvation and eternal life.  At that point we can have assurance of salvation.  But we shouldn't stop there.  Because of 6,000 years of the sin human beings are in a degraded condition and in need of a rehabilitation process (also called sanctification).  Through study of God's Word, beholding Jesus and being aware of His judgment and His soon coming we will be led to live sober lives in closer and closer harmony with Christ.   We may be redeemed from our fallen state to become more and more like God through this process.

It is not in order to be saved that we seek sanctification, but because having been redeemed by His blood we are grateful for His gift and with hearts overflowing with thanksgiving we desire to grow ever closer to Him and more like Him.  

But respect and trembling toward His awesomeness also motivates us to bow before Him and honor His words.  God always works through the two elements of Justice and Mercy- like hot and cold therapy these two elements both have their healing effects on His children.  So the awareness of His ongoing judgment has a therapeutic effect on God's children to help us have great respect for Him- just as earthly parents help their children grow through combining the two elements of mercy and justice- rather than just one or the other.


The Bible clearly teaches all throughout that having respect for His judgment helps us to become better people and live better lives (the process of sanctification). For example 2 Peter 3:10-14 teaches an awareness Gods final judgment to help us become sanctified;

"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up. 11 Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat! 13 But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells. 14 Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless...

Romans 11:22 “Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.”

1 Peter 4:17-18 clearly teaches that there is a time of judgment before Christ’s coming that begins with the house of God;  “For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?  Now ‘If the righteous one is scarcely saved, Where will the ungodly and the sinner appear?’”

The word for time here is “Kairos,” it’s not necessarily clear when the time is to start here- he’s talking about a time period of judgment that begins with the house of God.

Revelation 14 makes it further clear that at the very heart of that message in the end time gospel work of carrying the message to the ends of the earth should be the teaching that we are in a time period of judgment;

6 And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, having an eternal gospel to preach to those who live on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people; 7 and he said with a loud voice, "Fear God, and give Him glory, because the hour of His judgment has come; worship Him who made the heaven and the earth and sea and springs of waters." 8 And another angel, a second one, followed, saying, "Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great, she who has made all the nations drink of the wine of the passion of her immorality."


So when other parts of the Bible teach us the specifics of when that time period is (2300 day prophecy which points out the time of the beginning of the “cleansing of the sanctuary”), and we have miraculous manifestations of God’s instruction through the messages of Ellen White (who among many other confirmations of her prophetic ministry also accurately predicted the US Civil War through a dream witnessed by an entire congregation), and the teaching also matches God’s investigative judgment process all throughout the Bible and earth’s history- we can be certain that the doctrine is sound.

Notice that I didn't say anything about Jesus' sacrifice not being sufficient to forgive sins. I said an awareness of His judgment process has a sanctifying influence- be careful not to mix up the semantics.  

This word play is semantics. You are alluding that the sacrifice, is not sufficient, because the belief itself indicates that our sins are forgiven, but not blotted out until the IJ. Therefore, we are not completely sanctified until you go through the IJ. This is what I believe diminishes Christ sacrifice.

 

As I stated previously, you cannot prove the IJ without the SOP, which confirm the belief developed by Edson and others. This belief is clear truth to you because it has been explained to you in detail, utilizing a traditional ideology. However, remember countless Bible scholars, who were righteous Christians were unable to come to the same conclusions that you are. Therefore, for some reason this message which many SDA's feel is foundational to the church, was withheld from these countless Christians. One would have to wonder why God did not allow them to understand it, if it is important to our relationship with them, as you say provides sanctification. How are these individuals not sanctified because they did not have knowledge of the belief. Again, I say and again I say, you're asking people to suspend reason in order to have faith in this belief.

 

Leon

"Have any of the Pharisees believed?" (Jn 7:48)

Vicki

Take this to a non SDA and see if they see it as clear. They wont even get close without the SOP. You can say it is clear, but you don't have the evidence necessary.

 

Leon

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