The SDA 28 Fundamentals has IJ as one of those pillars that upholds the platform we stand on. To my surprise I have noted some of the saints around here do not think there is any Investigative Judgement. So let us see if there is a Investigative Judgement or not. I have also noted that the same Saints do not subscribe to the writings of E G White. So I would prefer that we use the Bible only.
The SDA church does have the Investigative Judgement as one of its 28 fundamentals Quoting:
24. Christ's Ministry in the Heavenly Sanctuary:
There is a sanctuary in heaven, the true tabernacle which the Lord set up and not man. In it Christ ministers on our behalf, making available to believers the benefits of His atoning sacrifice offered once for all on the cross. He was inaugurated as our great High Priest and began His intercessory ministry at the time of His ascension. In 1844, at the end of the prophetic period of 2300 days, He entered the second and last phase of His atoning ministry. It is a work of investigative judgment which is part of the ultimate disposition of all sin, typified by the cleansing of the ancient Hebrew sanctuary on the Day of Atonement. In that typical service the sanctuary was cleansed with the blood of animal sacrifices, but the heavenly things are purified with the perfect sacrifice of the blood of Jesus. The investigative judgment reveals to heavenly intelligences who among the dead are asleep in Christ and therefore, in Him, are deemed worthy to have part in the first resurrection. It also makes manifest who among the living are abiding in Christ, keeping the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, and in Him, therefore, are ready for translation into His everlasting kingdom. This judgment vindicates the justice of God in saving those who believe in Jesus. It declares that those who have remained loyal to God shall receive the kingdom. The completion of this ministry of Christ will mark the close of human probation before the Second Advent. (Heb. 8:1-5; 4:14-16; 9:11-28; 10:19-22; 1:3; 2:16, 17; Dan. 7:9-27; 8:13, 14; 9:24-27; Num. 14:34; Eze. 4:6; Lev. 16; Rev. 14:6, 7; 20:12; 14:12; 22:12.)
The hour of the evening sacrifice arrives. The priest stands in the court of the Temple in Jerusalem ready to offer a lamb as sacrifice. As he raises the knife to kill the victim, the earth convulses. Terrified, he drops the knife and the lamb escapes. Over the din of the earthquake he hears a loud ripping noise as an unseen hand rends the veil of the Temple from top to bottom. What did the tearing of the veil really mean?
Across town, black clouds enshroud a cross. When Jesus, the Passover Lamb of God, calls out, "It is finished!" He dies for the sins of the world.
Type has met antitype. The very event the Temple services have pointed to through the centuries has taken place. The Saviour has completed His atoning sacrifice, and because symbol has met reality, the rituals foreshadowing this sacrifice have been superseded. Thus the rent veil, the dropped knife, the escaped lamb.
But there is more to salvation history. It reaches beyond the cross. Jesus' resurrection and ascension direct our attention to the heavenly sanctuary, where, no longer the Lamb, He ministers as priest. The once-for-all sacrifice has been offered (Heb. 9:28); now He makes available to all the benefits of this atoning sacrifice.
I have noted some of the saints here saying that the atonement was fulfilled on the cross. I wonder how this could be correct? We have many texts telling us that there is an ongoing Investigative Judgement happening in the heavenly courts at this very moment.
Keith: "Poor Daniel was appalled and sick out of his mind in chapter 8. So Gabriel flew swiftly to explain the vision, years later. Why did he leave Daniel to suffer all these years.
My thought, which the bible supports is, Dan. 8 tells about the Meads and Persians, the Greek empire, and the desecration of the temple and the 2300 days.no dates are given in regards to the 2300 days"
Right, I agree with you Keith... we agree Daniel didn't have understanding of the 2300 days when the vision came to him in chapter 8, no start time was given, but in chapter 9, as you said, Gabriel flew back to explain the vision.
Keith: "So Gabriel flew swiftly to explain the vision, years later."
My point I'm trying to make is, One of the things Daniel didn't understand was the 2300 days vision, and Gabriel came back to explain what Daniel didn't have understanding on, and as you agree, the 2300 days(evenings & mornings) vision is something Daniel didn't understand or where it started from, but in Dan. 9 is where we find the start of the 2300 days, the connection can't be denied brother Keith. Do you believe your friend pastor Kenneth Cox when he says,
Kenneth Cox : "Now, let me tell you something friends, if your intellectually honest, you can take that prophecy in Dan.8-9 and it'll take you to the fall of 1844 every last time." (Kenneth Cox, on a video of his on youtube called 'The time of the end', at the 27:45 mark in the video.)
The 2300 day time prophecy can't be denied brother Keith, it started in 457BC and ended in 1844. Can we finally agree? :)
Maybe Daniel did understand the 2300 day vision and was appalled because of what was going to happen to God's earthly temple.
We still have to prove the seventy weeks is cut off from the 2300 days. Can we say that for sure? We use the word "determined " as our proof text. Many translations do not use that word. Decreed or allotted seems most commonly used. If you can show me for sure that the seventy weeks was cut off from the 2300 days, I'll go along with your reasoning
Keith said: If you can show me for sure that the seventy weeks was cut off from the 2300 days. If I may Keith
God would not permit the eclipse of the truth of Christ's high-priestly ministry to go on indefinitely. Through faithful, God-fearing men and women He revived His cause. The Reformation's partial rediscovery of Christ's role as our Mediator caused a great revival within the Christian world. Yet there was still more truth to be revealed about Christ's heavenly ministry.
Daniel's vision indicated that Christ's role as our high priest would be made especially prominent toward "'the time of the end'" (Dan. 8:17), when He would begin His special work of cleansing and judgment in addition to His continual intercessory ministry (Heb. 7:25). The vision specifies when Christ was to begin this antitypical day of atonement ministry—the work of the investigative judgment (Dan. 7) and cleansing of the sanctuary—"Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed" (Dan. 8:14, KJV). Because the vision refers to the time of the end, the sanctuary it speaks of cannot be the earthly sanctuary—for it was destroyed in A.D. 70. The prophecy must therefore refer to the new covenant sanctuary in heaven—the place where Christ ministers for our salvation.
What are the 2300 days or "2,300 evenings-mornings," as the original Hebrew reads? According to Genesis 1, an "evening and morning" is a day. As we have seen in chapters 4 and 12 of this book, a time period in symbolic prophecy is also symbolic: a prophetic day represents a year. So, as many Christians throughout the centuries have believed, the 2300 days of Daniel 8 signify 2300 literal years.
Daniel 9 the key to unlocking Daniel 8. God commissioned the angel Gabriel to make Daniel "'understand the vision'" (Dan. 8:16). But its impact was so shocking that Daniel became ill and Gabriel had to discontinue his explanation. At the close of the chapter Daniel remarked: "I was appalled by the vision and did not understand it" (Dan. 8:27, RSV).
Because of this interruption, Gabriel had to delay his explanation of the time period—the only aspect of the vision he had not yet explained. Daniel 9 describes his return to complete this responsibility. Daniel 8 and 9, then, are connected, the latter being the key to unlocking the mystery of the 2300 days. When Gabriel appeared he said to Daniel: "'I have come forth to give you skill to understand. . . . therefore consider the matter, and understand the vision'" (Dan. 9:23). Here he refers back to the vision of the 2300 days. His desire to explain the time elements of the vision of Daniel 8 makes clear why he introduces his explanation with the 70-weeks prophecy.
The 70 weeks, or 490 years, were "'determined, '" or "decreed" (RSV, NASB, NIV), for the Jews and Jerusalem (Dan. 9:24). The underlying Hebrew verb is chathak. Although this verb is used only once in the Scriptures, its meaning can be understood from other Hebrew sources. The well-known Hebrew-English dictionary by Gesenius states that properly it means "to cut" or "to divide."
With this background, Gabriel's comments are very revealing. He tells Daniel that 490 years were to be cut off from the longer period of 2300 years. As the starting point for the 490 years, Gabriel points to "'the going forth of the command to restore and build Jerusalem'" (Dan. 9:25), which took place in 457 B.C., the seventh year of Artaxerxes (see chapter 4).
The 490 years ended in A.D. 34. When we cut off 490 years from the 2300 years, we are left with 1810 years. Since the 2300 years were to extend 1810 years beyond A.D. 34, they reach to the year 1844.
Toward a fuller understanding of Christ's ministry. During the early part of the nineteenth century many Christians—including Baptists, Presbyterians, Methodists, Lutherans, Anglicans, Episcopalians, Congregationalists, and Disciples of Christ—gave intensive study to the prophecy of Daniel 8.44 All these Bible students expected some very significant events to take place at the end of the 2300 years. Depending on their understanding of the little horn power and the sanctuary, they anticipated this prophetic period to terminate in the purification of the church, the liberation of Palestine and Jerusalem, the return of the Jews, the fall of the Turkish or Muslim power, the destruction of the papacy, the restoration of true worship, the beginning of the earthly millennium, the day of judgment, the cleansing of the earth by fire, or the Second Advent.
None of these predictions materialized, and all who believed them were disappointed. Yet the severity of their disappointment was in proportion to the nature of the predicted event. Obviously the disappointment of those who expected Christ to return in 1844 was more traumatic than that of those who looked for the return of the Jews to Palestine.
As a result of their disappointment, many gave up the study of prophecy or turned from the historicist method of interpreting prophecy, which had led to these conclusions. Some, however, continued to study this prophecy and the subject of the sanctuary with much prayer and intensity, continuing to look to Christ's ministry in the heavenly sanctuary on their behalf. Rich new insights into that ministry rewarded their efforts. They discovered that the historic prophetic faith of the early church and of the Reformation was still valid. The prophetic time calculations were indeed correct. The 2300 years had ended in 1844. Their mistake—and that of all interpreters of that time—was in their understanding of what event was to take place at the end of that prophetic period. New light from Christ's sanctuary ministry turned their disappointment into hope and joy.
Their study of Biblical teachings on the sanctuary revealed that in 1844 Christ came to the Ancient of Days and began the final phase of His high-priestly ministry in the heavenly sanctuary. This ministry was the antitype of the Day of Atonement cleansing of the sanctuary that Daniel 7 depicts as the pre-Advent investigative judgment. This new insight into Christ's heavenly ministry "is not a departure from the historic Christian faith. It is, instead, the logical completion and inevitable consummation of that faith. It is simply the last-day appearance and fulfillment of the prophesied emphasis characterizing the everlasting gospel. . . in the closing segment of its witness to the world."
I can't believe you would call me a liar.
What are you so afraid of?
Did I say that Keith, all I was saying is that I have seen a lot of Lectures from Pr Cox and not once has he cast doubt on the IJ. Hard to believe is not saying its a lie as far as I know. If it is to you I do apologize. As I was not able to read the book for my self that is all I can say.
He hasn't cast doubt according to you Ian, I think it would be hard for anyone to cast doubt in your mind because you are fixed in your position. However, there are a lot of people who have significant doubts about the IJ especially those who have never been exposed to the SOP. In fact, there is a single person who hasn't been exposed to the SOP who believes in the IJ. If they do exist can you please point them out.
Yes Indeed Leon you put the finger on the sore spot there. Yes its true that we are mostly SDA's that subscribes to the IJ. If it had not been for the visions of Hiram Edson and E G White we may not have understood that truth even now. It amazes me Leon that because it was not revealed by Jesus on the cross you discard it as a false teaching. What about the three Angels Message, given after the cross, not many outside the SDA church subscribes to that truth either. How about you self Leon do you see it as a mission and truth for the SDA church? Maybe you would like to remove the book of revelation from the Bible? As far as I can see all you want to subscribe to is only what the mainstream churches understands, and believes. And those churches does only give scan regards the book of revelation.
I have read 1844 made simple.
I didn't say anything about doubting the IJ .All he said is it can't be proven using Dan. 8 and Dan. 9
If you don't believe what I'm saying, you don't think I'm telling the truth, right?
Anyway, if we believe EGW is a true prophet and she believes the IJ, shouldn't that be good enough?