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I would like to see some text from both the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy concerning who the 24 elders mentioned in Revelation 4 & 5 are.  I am aware that there are at least 2 mainline beliefs on this:


(1) They are representatives of un-fallen worlds.

(2) They are the first fruits resurrected with Christ.


There may be a couple others out there, but from my knowledge these are the 2 main ones.  I personally believe they are the representatives of un-fallen worlds.  I was recently talking to a friend who said he used to believe as I do, but has switched his opinion.  He said he has heard studies with strong arguments for them being the resurrected with Christ.  Anyway, I would like to see texts for both, particularly supporting them being the first fruits resurrected with Christ.



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the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me;

Exodus 19:16 And it came to pass on the third day in the morning, that there were thunders and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and the voice of the trumpet exceeding loud; so that all the people that [was] in the camp trembled.
19:17 And Moses brought forth the people out of the camp to meet with God; and they stood at the nether part of the mount.

Rev. 1:10 I (John) was in the Spirit on the Lord's day (The Sabbath), and heard behind me, a great voice, as of a trumpet,
1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: (Jesus)

Rev. 4:1
After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will show thee things which must be hereafter.

When Jesus, as He hung upon the cross, cried out, "It is finished," the rocks rent, the earth shook, and some of the graves were opened. When He arose a victor over death and the grave, while the earth was reeling and the glory of heaven shone around the sacred spot, many of the righteous dead, obedient to His call, came forth as witnesses that He had risen. Those favored, risen saints came forth glorified.

When are we GLORIFIED? ..........Hint: Justification, Sanctification, Glorification.

They were chosen and holy ones of every age, from creation down even to the days of Christ. Thus while the Jewish leaders were seeking to conceal the fact of Christ's resurrection, God chose to bring up a company from their graves to testify that Jesus had risen, and to declare His glory. {EW 184.1}

Those risen ones differed in stature and form, some being more noble in appearance than others. I was informed that the inhabitants of earth had been degenerating, losing their strength and comeliness. Satan has the power of disease and death, and with every age the effects of the curse have been more visible, and the power of Satan more plainly seen. Those who lived in the days of Noah and Abraham resembled the angels in form, comeliness, and strength. But every succeeding generation have been growing weaker and more subject to disease, and their life has been of shorter duration. Satan has been learning how to annoy and enfeeble the race. {EW 184.2}

Those who came forth after the resurrection of Jesus appeared to many, telling them that the sacrifice for man was completed, that Jesus, whom the Jews crucified, had risen from the dead; and in proof of their words they declared, "We be risen with Him." They bore testimony that it was by His mighty power that they had been called forth from their graves.

Yes it is symbolic of the 12 tribes, but if you really look at it, it is 2 from each tribe, symbolically.
They were chosen and holy ones of every age, from creation down even to the days of Christ......some of the graves were opened.
Hi Anthony,

Thank you for pointing out Rev 4:1.
Here's another possible perspective: Rev 4:1 was Jesus, showing an event in the past. If you read the whole chapter 4, there was two things missing: where are all the unnumbered angels, and where is the praise to Jesus b/c they were worshipping the Father only (vs 8,11) . (Remember wherever there is praise to the Father, there is also praise to the Son.)

Then Rev chapter 5, Jesus sat on the throne (v1) Next to Jesus the Holy Spirit (vs 6) then the elders sang new songs (just as the 144,000 will) (vs 9),
And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands (vs 11) = billions upon biliions.
All beings in heaven gave praise saying: "Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him (Father) that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb (Son) for ever and ever" (vs 13)

As He ascended, He led the way, and the multitude of captives set free at His resurrection followed. The heavenly host (Jesus + firstfruits + unnumbered angels as seen in Rev 5:11), with shouts and acclamations of praise and celestial song, attended the joyous train. As they drew near to the city of God, the challenge is given by the escorting angels,-- "Lift up your heads, O ye gates"
DA 833

Then the portals of the city of God are opened wide, and the angelic throng sweep through the gates amid a burst of rapturous music. There is the throne (Father), and around it the rainbow of promise. There are cherubim and seraphim. The commanders of the angel hosts, the sons of God, the representatives of the unfallen worlds (=24 elders in Rev 4), are assembled. DA 833.

The heavenly council before which Lucifer had accused God and His Son, the representatives of those sinless realms over which Satan had thought to establish his dominion (Yes, they unfallen worlds also participate in the Great Controversy too),--all are there to welcome the Redeemer. They are eager to celebrate His triumph and to glorify their King. DA 833.

So we see there are two parties: one in heaven waiting (Rev 4) and another coming thru the gate (Rev 5).
William and MsMS......Viewpoint....Then Rev chapter 5, Jesus sat on the throne (v1)

Ok say it is Jesus and the Holy Spirit on the Throne......vs 6....

Rev. 5:1 And I (John) saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne,
( I say it is God, and I will show you why in a few verses later
a book written within,
and on the backside,
and on the back side of the book, like how an envelope is close, with the flap, the flap was,
sealed with seven seals.

5:2 And I (John) saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
5:3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
5:4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David,
Who is that? That is Jesus. Rev. 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

vs. 5 behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David,hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

So then the elder said to John, weep not, Jesus, the offspring of David hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

Ok, you said that Jesus and the Holy Spirit is on the Throne...

5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst,
(in the middle)
of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst
(in the middle)
of the elders, stood a Lamb
(inBiblical terms, who is the Lamb?)....Jesus

And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. Jesus
5:7 And he(the Lamb, Jesus) came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

So if Jesus is on the Throne, with the Holy Spirit, who is that, that took the book out of the hand of Jesus?

Where is God at this moment? In the Holy Place of the Heavenly Sanctuary.

What is in the Most Holy Place of the Heavenly Sanctuary? The ark of the covenant, and the Throne of God. God is there.

Jesus says: Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.....John 14:6

No one can come into the presents of God without going through Jesus.

5:8 And when hethe Lamb of God
had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb
having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
5:9 And they
the four beasts and four and twenty elders
sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood,
out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
5:10 And hast made us, unto our God, God Himself
kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
5:11 And I John
beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels ,round about the throne, and the beasts and the elders:

And I, John, saw, and I, John, heard the voice of many angels, and the beasts, and the elders, and the number of them was, ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;

5:12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.

5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I, John, saying,

"Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb, for ever and ever.

Blessing unto God and Jesus, forever and ever.

5:14 And the four beasts said, Amen.

And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him, God, that liveth for ever and ever.

Jesus died, but God lives forever and ever, along with His Son Jesus, from henceforth.


A lot of people seem to for God at times. When Jesus went back to heaven, where did He go? To His Fathers House.

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Jesus went home to where His Father sits and waits for the outcome of this great plan of redemption. His Throne.

Isa. 66:1 Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool:

2SAT 102 says:
As John has a view of the people of God, he says
"Here are they that keep the commandments of God."
"And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in His temple, the ark of His testament" [Rev. 11:19].
Everyone has his eye directed to the sanctuary where the commandments of God are.
Right over the ark of His testament, is the mercy seat. Written over the throne of God is His bow of promise.

Be Blessed!
Very Nice, thank you.

You forgot 2 colors: :-)
Silver = Purity
White = Righteousness of Christ, the most important color
Question, are you saying that the seen taking place here was in the Most Holy Place? You kind of confused me on that point when I read the post.

Jon..... I am saying that the scene is taking place in the Heavenly Sanctuary, even though we need to keep in mind, that the sanctuary on earth was a copy of the original of the heavenly Sanctuary, so therefore, I will say yes to your question. The Throne of God is where His commandments are. Why?...It is because He is the Author of the commandments. And His commandments, is His Character.
Hi Anthony,

Thanks for your post. Sorry for the typo: Actually, the one sit on the throne in Rev 5:1 is the Father. The throne on the right is for the Son.

For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD (Father) said to my Lord (Son), Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool. Mark 12:36

And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. Mark 14:62

So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. Mark 16:19

Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God. Luke 22:69

As for the Holy Spirit, where is He?
Grace be unto you, and peace, from him (the Father) which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits (the Holy Spirit) which are before his throne; And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead. Rev 1:4,5.

So the Holy Spirit is before the throne of the Father, and Jesus is on throne to the right.
Shhhh, not too loud, or the wolf will start coming in.
Saying something about "freedom of sharing" and he will make up things like you are "attacking him/her" directly, by restricting his freedom to comment. And then the whole pack of wolves join in. So SHHHH!!!


a Throne was set up in the Holy Place at this time. Charter four mentions the seven candlestick and chapter five mentions the alter of incense.

Where is the Throne at in the picture above?

Yes the candlesticks are in the Holy place along with the altar.
1844, Oct. 22, Jesus went from the Holy to the Most holy place of the Heavenly Sanctuary, to inteceed on our behalf.
It is liken unto the altar before the veil of the Most Holy place.

There is only One Throne in the sanctuary of Heaven.

remember, the earthly sanctuary is a copy of the Heavenly one.

To those hearts that have not yet admitted Christ as the
one Ruler in the soul-temple, He says, "Behold, I stand at
the door, and knock." He does not force Himself in,
although His own heart is breaking over our hardness. He
pleads in gentleness, and if allowed to enter, in the
capacity of an intimate friend, He will sup with us. The
very closet relationship is seen to exist between God and
His remnant church. It is as a brand plucked from the
burning. Weak, trembling, and sin-laden, this remnant of
the race, is taken by the Saviour to sit with Him on His
throne, even as He overcame, and sat down on the throne of
the Father. Angels see the place, made vacant by the fall
of Lucifer, filled by those whom sin had marred and defaced
more than any other race. The Majesty of heaven reaches to
the lowest depths of earth, and exalts man to the highest
place in heaven, -- a seat beside the King on His throne.

Exhalts means to encourages, I believe.

The redeemed occupy a position nearer the Creator than they
could have occupied, had there been no sin. Such is the
wondrous love of Christ! To-day angels and inhabitants of
unfallen worlds are watching the consummation of the plan.
We who live to-day are the objects of their interest. "He
that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto
the churches." p. 90, Para. 2, [PATMOS].


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