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A question about the Shepperd's Rod and Reform Movement (and whatever movement I have not mentioned but may need to know about)

This is a request for information, not an attempt to start a pointless debate.

Is there a reasonably simple, "sanitized" source of information about the Shepherd’s Rod and Reform Movement message? I wish to understand what they teach, without being troubled by their negative campaign against the SDA church, and their usual efforts to try to confuse the issues.

As I make SDA friends online, I am finding that many of them are of those persuasions, so instead of simply avoiding them as I usually do (and was taught to do), I wish to understand them, as impartially as possible. I am disappointed by the efforts of some of them to not exactly admit what they are, when I ask them directly, but I am refreshed by those who have told me plainly what they are, with no apparent dishonesty.

I am familiar with the documents from the Biblical Research institute, but those seem mostly historical, I wish to understand the movements as they exist today.

One more thing, the offshoots I met in my home country and the USA are usually engaged in trying to convert adventists to adventism (their brand of course), and not at all interested in unbelievers. But online I have met some offshoots that appear genuinely interested in sharing the message with unbelievers and reaching to the community. This I had never seen before, it challenges some of my past perceptions of how to easily identify them. I think that behavior is more common with independents, who are not the same as the Rods and the Reforms, at least in my understanding.

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They are not written by Ellen White as portrayed.

For one thing ... many authors wrote the Bible Commentary. But I am not aware that Ellen White did.
Im sorry brother, but you are mistaken. Read the post again and every one of these quotes are exactly as I have typed them. Does anyone here have these books? I have all these books here with me and I quoted from them. I have these quotes memorized even. I dont push buttons to find quotes brother 4Him like u do! :) I have done my home work over the years... these quotes are from the sources I have cited. I don't know what exactly your agenda is but methinks it is obvious that you are trying to discredit the message that I am sharing. Take off the shoes from off ur feet 4Him for you are on holy ground.

sky

This goes to show that God has a special message for Laodicea and the enemy knows that, so he makes one counterfeit after another.

But "Amid the confusing cries will be borne a special testimony, a special message of truth, appropriate for this time, and which message is to be received, believed, and acted upon." E.G.W. Bible Commentary, Vol.7,984.

This statement was made in the context of Rev.18:1... the light that is to lighten the whole earth and which was resisted in 1888. 1 S.M.234,235.

"There is salvation for you but only through the merits of Jesus Christ of Nazareth. The Holy Spirit has been offered to you again again." T.M.97.

Salvation through the merits of Jesus: acceptance with God, forgiveness, justfication, and sanctification of the Holy Spirit and glorification:

This special tetstimony, or special message of truth, is the interest that will prevail and the subject that is to swallow up every other!

"We have no merits except as they come though Jesus Christ." E.G. W. Bible Commentray, Vol.5,1128.

Simple as ABC. And yet we do not understand it. "The matter of salvation is just as simple as ABC. But we do not understand it." F.W.64.

It is just as simple as ABC and yet it needs to be continually repeated, again and again, for "we are slow to learn and ready to forget." D.A.98. .

"For me to repeat the same thing is not tedious, but for you it is safe." Phil.3:1.

sky

Why should the matter of "merits" be so difficutl to understand? I was raised with the belief that salvation was through the merits of my good works and that I could pray to the "saints" because they had a bank of merits and that made them intercessors between God and man. .. The idea of salvation through merits is the right idea but it must not be creature merits but the divine merits of Jesus Christ alone for "only His merits will be recognized" "only His merits avail with God." Our Father Cares,149; F.W.48.

"When we seek to gain Heaven through the merits of Christ, the soul makes progress, from strength to strength and from victory to victory." F.W.94.

sky

► Reply
I have them. And they are not there as written. And like I said. Ellen White did not write the Bible Commentaries. Those quotes are not attributed to her.

So ... you are quoting them but you don't have them? I have looked up each quote. They are not attributed to Ellen White as you have quoted.
The first quote from 7 B.C.984:

Message prepares for translation: "Amid the confusing cries, 'Lo here is Christ, Lo, there is Christ!' will be borne a special testimony, a special message of truth, appropriate for this time, which message is to be received, believed, and acted upon."

The second one is from Testimonies to Ministers, p.97:

"There is salvation for you but only through the merits of Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit has been offfered to you again and again."

The Third one is taken from 5 B.C.1128

Here is the full paragraph

"Shall selfishness come into your hearts? And will those who set not before them the pattern, Jesus, extol your merits? You have none except as they come through Jesus Christ."

This is clearly saying that we have no merits excepct as they come through Jesus Christ.

The last one,,, "When we seek to gain Heaven through the merits of Jesus, the soul makes progress... we may go on from strength to strength and from victory to victory."

This is what it means to look unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith." This sentence goes in between the two phrases I have just quoted...

sky
I am sorry Sky ... but when you put something in quotes ... that means that what you have put in quotes is exactly what was written. Let me give you an example ...

You quote: "We have no merits except as they come though Jesus Christ."

And now you say it is in this paragraph:

Shall selfishness come into your hearts? And will those who set not before them the pattern, Jesus, extol your merits? You have none except as they come through Jesus Christ."

And you make this statement:

"This is clearly saying that we have no merits excepct as they come through Jesus Christ."

Sky ... it may clearly say that to YOU. But the quote you made is not in the paragraph that you might 'think' it is. To be there ... the exact words in the exact order has to be present. You are misquoting.


Another example of misquoting is :

But "Amid the confusing cries will be borne a special testimony, a special message of truth, appropriate for this time, and which message is to be received, believed, and acted upon." E.G.W. Bible Commentary, Vol.7,984.

I have to tell you that Ellen White did not write the Bible Commentary. I don't doubt that this quote is in the Bible Commentary. But these are not the words of Ellen White.

The next one is :

The second one is from Testimonies to Ministers, p.97:

"There is salvation for you but only through the merits of Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit has been offfered to you again and again."

And unless you have a different and older edition ... this is not the same as my edition. But at least you are getting closer.

The next one ... "When we seek to gain Heaven through the merits of Christ, the soul makes progress, from strength to strength and from victory to victory." F.W.94.

Again ... this is not what I find when I read this quote from FW94. Now ... if you have an older edition that says this ... then I have learned something. But it is important to quote things as they stand exactly. SO, I would be interested to know here if you have misquoted or if the book was changed in later editions.

I don't mean to criticize you Sky. I hope you can learn from this. When you put something in quotes ... it has to be exact or you are putting words in someones mouth and misrepresenting truth.
4 Him,

Vol. 5 of the SDA Bible Commentary, p. 1128 are all Ellen White quotes regarding the Gospel of John. It is in the section called "Supplemental Material," found on pages 1077 to 1152. This is the edition published in 1956.

In paragraph 1, near the top, in the seventh line, it reads, "You have none [that is, no merits] except as they come through Jesus Christ."

TM 97 says, "There is salvation for you, but only the merits of Jesus Christ. The grace of the Holy Spirit has been offered for you again and again."

The following quote is found in the section of the SDA BC containing Ellen White comments on the book of Revelation:

"Amid the confusing cries will be borne a special testimony, a special message of truth, appropriate for this time, and which message is to be received, believed, and acted upon." E.G.W. Bible Commentary, Vol.7,984.
I only own a copy of Bible Commentry volume 7a... do u know what that means? This Bible Commentary only contains statements from Mrs. White from Genesis to Revelation.

sky

In my post to you 4Him I have said to you that I have all these books here with me and that I quoted from them.... and now you are twisting my words as though I had said that i did not have the books with me!!!!
I am sure that brother Mark has these books and when he is back online he will be able to verify each one of these quotes.... so we shall see.... and I invite those who have these books to check them out and to see for theselves that they are truly from the pen of Mrs. White.

sky
4Him said,

Sky ... I was wondering where you got the following quotes because when I run them through my Ellen White software ... it indicates that she did not say these quotes. Can you clarify?
********************************************************************
Here you are saying that you looked for the quotes I icited through your Ellen White software and did not find them.... but in the next post you are saying that you have the books... if you have the books with you why would you need to use Ellen White software? You said, "I have them." No you don't. If you had them you would have said that you had them in the first place before using Ellen Whtie software... you say they are not there as written and that Ellen White did not write the Bible Comnmentaries, that those quotes are not attributed to her!!!

But they are there and also in Bible Commentary Vol.7 a, which is where I have taken these quotes from... I have known these quotes for years... and they are from Ellen White... anyone who owns a copy of 7A or of the whole set of SDA Bible Commentaries will be able to find these quotes I have cited from Vol.7,984 or 7a,428 and from Vol.5,1128 or 7a,248.

I bet you have never seen this Vol.7a Bible Commentary before... I have had it for many years in my possession...

Then you added: So ... you are quoting them but you don't have them?

Of course I have them. Do you yahoo? if u have a cam I will show them to you.
Thank you so much Jim.

Very much appreciated.

sky
Hi Gabriel,

I just checked the quotes sky gave and I see them in the books he quotes from. The confusion may be due to the fact that he is quoting from the SDA BC set that was published in 1957, and these books have been reissued recently with different pagination, or different page numbers. Not sure if that explains the confusion but it might. Also, the Ellen White comments are near the end of the volumes, in a "supplementary materials" section.
As Sky has admitted ... He has inserted his commentary and thoughts into the quotation marks that he used. He indicated that he felt it did not change the meaning of her quotes. And commentary is fine ... just not to be inserted into quotes that make it look like they are the words of our prophet .. Ellen White.

It is very easy to check if the words are from Ellen White. All one has to do is to plug them into the EGW software and it will tell you if the words are hers or not.

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