the votes were 185 for 124
I'm deeply disappointed and saddened by the negative response of the NAD and several of its Unions, Conferences and institutions.
The Annuel Council approved the document Compliance, I think that this most be the end of it. If the NAD what to go let it be.
Maybe it is for the better.
Brother Benicio, how have you been? Hope you and your family are good. I heard a little about the compliance document, But what exactly does the compliance document want SDA to comply to?
I hear it's about being compliant and not getting involved and speaking against social injustice, women's ordination, and I also heard styles of worship in some SDA Churches is not compliant... Is that what it's about, Or have I heard wrong?
Women's Ordination is part of it I believe Here in SPD we just had an article in our weekly publication the "Record" extolling the merits of WO I wrote this to the Editor:
Women in ministry article was a disappointment in the fact that you need to show us your pride in that humanism has now taken fully root in the SDA church. I for one will not attend a church that has a Lipstick pastor, as I see that as another way of Satan infiltrating the church. Did not the General Conference in session 2015 reject ordaining woman pastors? Or do the SPD follow the NAD in doing as they please? Perhaps SPD will not support the General Conference same as NAD has been threatening to do because they were not allowed to get their way? We also know that every denomination that had Ordained Lipstick pastors have soon after ordained homosexuals as well. We are on a slippery slope to hell.
Hey brother Ian, thank you.. Yes, let's talk about women's ordination, but just quickly, as far as you know, does the compliance document have to do with speaking against social injustices like a MLK?
The same for music worship, are there some SDA churches praise and worship ministries that is not compliant with the compliance document? I want to fully understand, what issues other than WO does the compliance document target?
In regards to women's ordination I want to fully understand those for and against, your obviously against... Your view is appreciated... with all due respect I will leave out the term "lipstick pastor", I think the term is condescending. With that said, I do understand what you mean, you won't attend a SDA church with an ordained woman pastor.
Let me ask you, what if she wasn't a ordained woman pastor and just a woman pastor?
Because EGW did say The Holy Spirit prepares men and women to become pastors.
EGW wrote: "It is the accompaniment of the Holy Spirit of God that prepares workers, both men and women, to become pastors to the flock of God."
From previous discussions on this subject, I asked someone do they have a problem with a woman being a pastor of a SDA church, nothing to do with ordination, just a pastor, with all the duties that any ordain male pastor does. I believe that person said they didn't have a problem with that, I pose the same question to you brother Ian. Thank you for your to time.
Reasoning in what context is the word ' pastor' used here? You should should know these things before posting quote which has nothing to do with the question at hand.
Jason wrote: "Reasoning in what context is the word ' pastor' used here? You should should know these things before posting quote which has nothing to do with the question at hand. "
Why do you think I'm seeing the word pastor in the wrong context?
Yes, I know EGW was speaking of evangelism for students, but nevertheless SOP says the Holy Spirit of GOD prepares workers (I think we are all called to be workers in the vineyard), both men and women, to become pastors. The Holy Spirit is preparing men and women to become pastors brother Jason.
What do you think pastor means here Jason, I would take it as it reads with the understanding of the context. Can we agree in some context (and I'll let you explain your views on the context and why you think the quote has nothing to do with the question at hand), but can we agree in some context the Holy Spirit prepares women to become pastors?
I'll ask you the same question brother Jason, if a woman wasn't ordained, would it be fine for her to pastor a church?
I have verify it, but in past discussions I was told that there are SDA churches with a woman that are not ordained running the show, in other words being a pastor to a church, with all logistics required of a pastor. Is this true? If so, what do you think about that? What do think about a non ordained woman running at SDA church? Thank you.
The mind that resists the truth will see everything in a perverted light. It will be fastened in the sure toils of the enemy, and view things in the light of the enemy. 6BC 1057.7
Nothing to give in this discussion brother Jason? I know you think what I believe (if you even know what I believe) isn't Truth, but can you actually engage in a discussion and reason together?
There is a Spiritual Gift of “Pastor”, and there is a denominationally-defined ROLE called “Pastor”, which is not exactly the same thing. All spiritual gifts are given to believers as the Spirit decides, and are not limited by gender. Roles defined by the church are not the same thing, and we often get them confused.
"PASTORS" NOW A VERY VAGUE TERM. I THINK MAYBE 10% OF ACTIVE PASTORS HAD A "CALLING" FROM GOD TO THE SERVICE, OTHERS DID IT BECAUSE IT WAS A CUSHIER COLLEGE ROUTE, OR BECAUSE A FAMILY MEMBER IS A PASTOR AND THEY WILL FOLLOW ALSO, IT JUST ENDS UP BEING A JOB SADLY. A TRUE PASTOR LABORS AND TOILS IN THE WORK, NOT JUST PREP A SERMON.
Brother Ian, you posted a video on WO, at the 4:20 mark of the video, the question is asked "did Eve have equal headship with Adam at creation? ".... It said, if the answer is no, then it should remain so forever. Any attempt to change this order would be similar to Satan trying grasp equal authority with Christ.
With all due respect, my guide is the Bible, also the lesser light to understand the great light of the Bible.
EGW wrote: "God Himself gave Adam a companion. He provided “an help meet for him”—a helper corresponding to him—one who was fitted to be his companion, and who could be one with him in love and sympathy. Eve was created from a rib taken from the side of Adam, signifying that she was not to control him as the head, nor to be trampled under his feet as an inferior, but to stand by his side as an equal, to be loved and protected by him. A part of man, bone of his bone, and flesh of his flesh, she was his second self, showing the close union and the affectionate attachment that should exist in this relation." PP
The SOP says the rib of Adam to create Eve signified she wasn't to control him as the head, nor was Eve to be treated as inferior, but to stand by his side as an equal, as an equal.... your video implies Eve wasn't Adams equal at creation before sin. How do you explain this apparent contradiction of the video you posted and with what EGW wrote?
Yes, brother Reasoning you made a good point there clearly Eve was created as an equal to Adam. But that situation was only before the fateful day ven Eve decided that God was a liar and she knew better than God. It seems to me that you have found that women now are free to take that place again. So when did women stop having pain in childbirth?