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Jack what I do know is that Mary Magdalene was understanding Jesus Christs Mission while the Apostles did not.  

What I do notice is you have no respect for what EGW has said the gist of the message was this "But when the judgment of the General Conference, which is the highest authority that God has upon the earth, is exercised, private independence and private judgment must not be maintained, but be surrendered. " The Session has voted down WO 3 times You and Reasoning seem to think that is of little consequence. Maybe you think you know better than God?

Elijah,

You seem to be trying to fit me into some mold in your head.  At no point have I even mentioned or reference the GC decision, and at no point have I referenced Mrs White’s comment or my respect for it. I have, on the contrary, great respect for Mrs White’s writings and council, and rather am disappointed that you would say such a thing.  Perhaps you need to reconsider that comment.  

Reasoning, what does apply to men is the will of God! EGW wrote this:

I have been shown that no man’s judgment should be surrendered to the judgment of any one man. But when the judgment of the General Conference, which is the highest authority that God has upon the earth, is exercised, private independence and private judgment must not be maintained, but be surrendered.-Testimonies, Vol. 3, p. 492. (First published in 1875.) {GRC 52.1}

3 times the WO question has been voted down by the Session and you think it counts for nothing? Maybe you know better than God? 

Peace 

 Ian wrote: "3 times the WO question has been voted down by the Session and you think it cpunts for nothing? Maybe you know better than God?"

  Bro., why are you mentioning WO? I know you think I'm trying to get you to agree to women being ordained, so maybe that's why you keep gravitating to ordination. I know I mention it umpteen times, I know brother Jack mentioned it, put ordination and the titles the Church decide to the side... Can you do that?

 Again, in case you forgot, I respect the votes that are made, so you trying to imply that I don't and that I think it's nothing makes you (with all due respect) a liar.... and your sarcastic remark that I know better than GOD is uncalled for my brother. But let me guess, your going apologize for your actions just to do it again right? Smh... 

 

  Bless! 

OK, Reasoning you feel I have called you a Liar and if I have I do apologize for that. 

And I apologize for the Discussion has taken this toxic turn it was not my intention. Diplomacy is not my strong suit sadly. 

I do remember you said that the vote should be respected. 

Peace 

Ian wrote: "OK, Reasoning you feel I have called you a Liar and if I have I do apologize for that.  And I apologize for the Discussion has taken this toxic turn it was not my intention. Diplomacy is not my strong suit sadly.  I do remember you said that the vote should be respected."

Thank you, No my brother, I called you a lair... It's a strong word and for that I apologize.

 With that being said, you have suggested things with your questions  that aren't true, I don't think the vote was nothing , I don't know better than GOD. 

Ian wrote: "3 times the WO question has been voted down by the Session and you think it cpunts for nothing? Maybe you know better than God?"

 First, Why would you even ask that? Second, why are you talking about WO when brother Jack and myself said put WO to the side for a moment?

Blessings! 

Benicio,

The Spiritual Gift of “Teaching” is far different from the Spiritual Gift of “Pastor”.  You are confusing roles/titles versus Gifts.  Many people with the title and ordination of “Pastor” do not have the Spiritual Gift of “Pastor”.  They are two different things.  I think you might need to review a little more about Spiritual Gifts and how they are received and function in the church.  One does not get a particular Spiritual Gift because one wants it, or because someone thinks you are a good speaker or leader.  

This is not a civil right issue. Let show you what is the issue with the ordaination of woman; "Like restless modern Eve, she was flattered with hope of entering a higher sphere than which God has assigned her. In attempting to rise above her original position she fell far below it. A similar result will be reached by all who are unwilling to take up cheerfully thei life duties in accordance with God's plan.. In their efforts to reach position (like ordaination of woman) for which He (God) has not fitted them, many are leaving vacant the place where they might be a blessing."  (Patriarchs and Prophets {chapter 3 The Temptation and  Fall) pg 59)

Reasoning this is the real issue. And it's not a civil rihgt issue, It's about the modern Eve of this world.

God bless.

Peace

 This quote has nothing to do with what we're talking about brother Benicio... and I find it strange how you believe the Bible teaches a woman shouldn't teach, but your using the teachings of a woman (EGW) to supposedly come to a point a woman shouldn't teach. 

 The quote you posted is talking about the position Eve was in at creation, before sin, and Adam as well. Eve wasn't content with being one and equal with Adam and having dominion over the earth, she wanted to be like GOD knowing good and evil... and of course Adam followed along.


Because of Eve's desires and actions she was removed from her natural position of being one and equal with Adam in marriage.


Gen.3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.


This has to do with married people... this isn't a discussion about the position GOD has put men and women who decided to get married in my brother. This is about women being pastors, and you have taken deeper, you believe a woman shouldn't even teach. 

 let me ask you, I know there are many Adventist colleges around the world, do they allow women to pursue degrees in being a pastor? and I guess with an understanding she will never be ordained? Is that going on?

Bless! 

Hi Reasoning

If a woman wont pursue a degree in being a pastor that is her choice, but yes indeed cannot be ordain.

I do not have a problem with Sabbath teacher female. We have some heir in Aruba in the church, and they are doining a good job.

But not as presiedent, elders, and deacon. My wife is health minister in are church. Their are many things for wonam to do in the church were they may be bless!

Thanks for your reply Reasoning.

Reasoning said: I agree, if a vote was made then people should respect that vote. Let me ask you if the vote went the other way 3 times, would you be content with the vote?

Yes, I am prepared to follow the Leading of the Holy Spirit. I am a bit puzzled as to why you posing such a question. The voice of God was clear enough and I am dismayed that the NAD, as well as some other Divisions including my own SPD,  seems to me some cannot understand the will of God? Not only once but 3 times in a Row. If that is an indication of the Spiritual ear of people who claims to be God's own people I think there will be a big loss to the church when the shaking does take place.

Reasoning said: is there an 7th Day Adventist college on this planet that doesn't condone women being ordained as a pastor, but does allow women to study to be a pastor?

I am sorry Reasoning I do not follow what universities and seminars are doing although I know here in the SPD Avondale may well condone females study to be Pastors. But then again if God has said NO why do they?

Reasoning said: Are you saying it's ok for a woman to be a pastor, just as long she doesn't minister or run or be the leader be a SDA temple?

I am not sure what you are saying here? To me if God has said women are not to be pastors I myself believe we should follow God's will. Clearly, some think their will trumps God. Can you not see the sheer madness of such an attitude? The other thing I have noticed with the Pro WO is they think there is no difference between Prophet and pastor. If EGW could not share her messages that she has received from God there would be something wrong.

Peace

Ian wrote: "Yes, I am prepared to follow the Leading of the Holy Spirit. I am a bit puzzled as to why you posing such a question.'

 I was just curious if you would stand back and stay silent on a issue you believe goes against what GOD says not to do. 

Ian wrote: " I am sorry Reasoning I do not follow what universities and seminars are doing although I know here in the SPD Avondale may well condone females study to be Pastors. But then again if God has said NO why do they?"

  Right, why offer courses to women if they can't be allowed to be pastors. I guess it might have to do with money huh? 

Ian wrote: "I am not sure what you are saying here? To me if God has said women are not to be pastors I myself believe we should follow God's will. Clearly, some think their will trumps God. Can you not see the sheer madness of such an attitude?"

 I still want to see that, where did GOD said women cant be pastors?

 EGW said the Holy Spirit prepares men and women to become pastors, what kind of pastor is the Holy Spirit preparing  women and men to become?  

I think it's important to be specific here, are woman allowed to teach the Gospel of Jesus Christ to other people?

A woman with a passion to win souls for Jesus, who has taken extensive pastoral courses in 7th day Adventist higher learning institutions to become a pastor (not ordained), is ok for her to teach the Gospel to people? 

 

What if she has an online ministry that she started, and many all over the world likes what she's doing and join her in her online ministry, perhaps give tithes and she gives it to the Church, would this be ok for you brother Ian? 

 I know you have a problem with women getting ordained, but putting ordination to the side, are you saying you have a problem with a non ordained women being the head pastor in charge of an SDA temple? 

 For you, does it boil down to, That women can do everything else just not run a SDA temple? 

 

Ian wrote: "The other thing I have noticed with the Pro WO is they think there is no difference between Prophet and pastor. If EGW could not share her messages that she has received from God there would be something wrong."

 I wouldn't put myself in the category of being Pro WO, I think ordination in itself has been misused and abused and taken away from what it truly is... But right now I just want to understand views on each side. 

Again, SOP says the Holy Spirit prepares men and women to become pastors, I understand the context, but that doesn't exclude the fact the the Holy Spirit prepares men and women to become pastors. What kind of pastors?

It's hard for me to take what you say in that GOD said woman are not to become pastors, and then read the SOP, and it says the Holy Spirit is preparing women to become pastors. 

 What is your definition of being a pastor? 

Me personally, I believe a prophet can be a pastor. 

 Do you believe EGW was a teacher of the Gospel of Jesus Christ brother Ian? 

 This is great.., thank you for answering my question brother Ian. Blessings! 

 

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