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I personally believe that a pastor must be a calling.

But we life in a modern world that everything is you must have a doctor degree.

For people to take you serious now and day, they will ask for some type of degree.

If you wont be on the church, conference, GC payrolls yes you must have a degree!

It’s sad but this is the realety that we life in.

For me untell today 31 years as a SDA, I still believe to be a pastor ( Shepherd) is a calling!

It’s the same with women ordination. The modern wold won’t see wonen as ordain paster, president, elders. This the modern world Babylon. And as an church we won’t conform ourself to the world.

And then we give food for all offshoots to say; insead the church converting the world, the world is converting the church!

What do we wont?

My the Lord of heaven have mercy over His people.

Peace

Benicio wrote: "I personally believe that a pastor must be a calling.

But we life in a modern world that everything is you must have a doctor degree.

For people to take you serious now and day, they will ask for some type of degree.

If you wont be on the church, conference, GC payrolls yes you must have a degree!

It’s sad but this is the realety that we life in."

  So you saying in order to be a pastor for the SDA Church a person must have a degree? 

That's what it seems like... Why do you think it's sad situation? 

Blessings! 

 

But you miss the part that say "I personally believe that a pastor must/is an calling

Yes, Good argument Benicio but how do you know a person is called just on his say so? To me, that call can come from God. but how about personal ambition that is driven by a humanistic agenda.

Good point. I will say we can see the dedication on the part of that person.

Paul said prove all thing, prove every spirit, hole fast that which is good.

Be like the Bereans. When we see Christ in that person. 

When we have the Holy Spirit we can see if the person is call from heaven.

But I know that is a lot of self made pastor out their, and also false prophets.

Jesus said "For the called are many and the chosen are few." Matthew 22:14

Many are come without the covering of the blood of Christ.

If we listen with our spiritual ears and respond to the invitation, there will be fear and trembling in our souls as we recognize, that it was God's work in us to recognize the calling ones for the cause of our salvation.

Peace 

Benicio wrote: "But you miss the part that say "I personally believe that a pastor must/is an calling"

  No, I didn't miss that... My question is, if a person receives that calling to be a pastor, does that person have to get a degree to fulfill that calling of being a pastor?

Blessings! 

Blessed Sabbath

For the modern world we life in, yes you need a degree to fulfill that calling for being a pastor.

Like I say people love degree.People love to hear he/she have a doctor degree, our a PhD is .....

Peace

Benicio wrote: "For the modern world we life in, yes you need a degree to fulfill that calling for being a pastor.
Like I say people love degree.People love to hear he/she have a doctor degree, our a PhD is ....."

 Thank you. You believe this is sad, why? 

 

it's good for any one to pursue a degree, noting wrong with that.

Look at me self I have a doctor degree in nutrition and also I'm a ND (Naturopahitc doctor).

But we live in a society that stress upon degree. 

Now Reasoning do you know someone that work as a pastor that do not have a degree and is open the payroll of the church or conferences ?

Peace 

 

  Benicio wrote: "it's good for any one to pursue a degree, noting wrong with that. Look at me self I have a doctor degree in nutrition and also I'm a ND (Naturopahitc doctor). But we live in a society that stress upon degree. "

 

 I agree, it's good to pursue a degree, congratulations on your achievements. But as you say my brother, society stresses these things, but I'm focused on what the Bible stresses. Nothing in there that says a person needs a degree to hold any position.    


Benicio wrote:"Now Reasoning do you know someone that work as a pastor that do not have a degree and is open the payroll of the church or conferences?"

 No, I don't. 

 Do you know someone that works as a pastor that does have a degree, but isn't ordained and on the payroll of the church or conferences? 

Blessings! 


Women as Pastors to the Flock

In the above statement from 1898, in which Ellen White says “There are women who should labor in the gospel ministry,” she describes that labor as we would the work of a Bible Instructor. She associated this work with care for (visiting) “the flock of God.” This statement may provide a key to a clearer understanding of a statement published two years later: EWRWC 6.2

All who desire an opportunity for true ministry, and who will give themselves unreservedly to God, will find in the canvassing work opportunities to speak upon many things pertaining to the future, immortal life. The experience thus gained will be of the greatest value to those who are fitting themselves for the ministry. It is the accompaniment of the Holy Spirit of God that prepares workers, both men and women, to become pastors to the flock of God. 

The remainder of the paragraph describes the benefits of character and experience that will come to those who engage in the canvassing work. EWRWC 

Some hold that Ellen White is here calling for women, under the preparation of the Holy Spirit, to become gospel ministers in the commonly-accepted sense of the term today, that is, the conference-employed, perhaps even ordained, leader of a local congregation. But is that how she used the term “pastor” in this passage?EWRWC 

First, though “pastor” may be our common term, it was not Ellen White’s. Her common term was “minister.” Our laserdisc concordance of the published writings of Mrs. White shows that her usages of “minister,” “ministers,” “minister’s,” etc. (which include uses as verbs), outnumber use of similar words built around “pastor” by more than 50 to 1. Even so, by far the majority of her uses of these “pastor” terms simply designates the minister at the head of the congregation. EWRWC 

But in some passages we find evidence of other meanings. In such statements the term “pastor” is often used in connection with “the flock.” The references show concern for nurture of God’s people, as a shepherd might show tender personal care for each individual sheep. One such reference where Mrs. White makes this nurturing connotation explicit is in the following account, written from Australia in 1892: EWRWC 

Elder H used to live here and preach to the people, but he was not a shepherd of the flock. He would tell the poor sheep that he would rather be horse whipped than visit. He neglected personal labor, therefore pastoral work was not done in the church and its borders...Had the preacher done the work of a pastor, a much larger number would now be rejoicing in the truth 

Other examples of this specialized usage of “pastor” may be cited briefly. In referring to ministers who have educated themselves as debaters, Mrs. White said, “In many respects men trained in this kind of school unfitted themselves to become pastors of the sheep and lambs.” 17 Speaking of ministers who devote excessive time to reading and writing, she says, “The duties of a pastor are often shamelessly neglected because the minister lacks strength to sacrifice his personal inclinations for seclusion and study. The pastor should visit from house to house among his flock, teaching, conversing, and praying with each family, and looking out for the welfare of their souls.” 18 EWRWC 

Her concern for personal care for the flock is expressed again this way: “Responsibilities must be laid upon the members of the church. The missionary spirit should be awakened as never before, and workers should be appointed as needed, who will act as pastors to the flock, putting forth personal effort to bring the church up to that condition where spiritual life and activity will be seen in all her borders.” 19 In each instance here the concept of “pastor” is associated with personal work for the flock of God, even when it is done by “members of the church” rather than the minister. One who visits families, teaching them and praying with them, showing personal care and interest, is doing pastoral work. EWRWC 7.2

Second, the work of the Adventist minister in Ellen White’s time was quite different from the work of the “pastor” as we know it today. The ministers were largely evangelists, raising up a church in a place, getting it established, and then moving on to another place. The idea of a settled ministry whose duties were primarily with those who were already believers is a fairly recent innovation in the Adventist Church, developing in the 1930’s, 40’s, and especially 50’s. 20 In the setting of such an itinerant ministry, Mrs. White’s term, “pastors to the flock of God,” at times denotes not so much an office as a function, performed in personal ministry to the sheep of Jesus’ flock. EWRWC 7.3

This is why canvassing is such a good preparation for ministry. It gets the worker out visiting in homes, doing personal labor, seeking to bring the lost sheep into the Lord’s flock, or (we might say pastoring the flock of God). It is a work that both men and women can and should do. But such a work does not necessarily involve appointment to the headship role of a congregation or ordination to the gospel ministry. EWRWC 7.4

Third, in a parallel passage a few pages later in the same book, Ellen White explicitly shows that her endorsement of canvassing as preparation for the ministry is based on its orientation toward personal ministry in the home: EWRWC 8.1

Some men whom God was calling to the work of the ministry have entered the field as canvassers. I have been instructed that this is an excellent preparation if their object is to disseminate light, to bring the truths of God’s word directly to the home circle. In conversation the way will often be opened for them to speak of the religion of the Bible. If the work is entered upon as it should be, families will be visited, the workers will manifest Christian tenderness and love for souls, and great good will be the result. This will be an excellent experience for any who have the ministry in view.

Those who are fitting for the ministry can engage in no other occupation that will give them so large an experience as will the canvassing work. 21

This personal work in the home, which is at the heart of the canvassing work, is the very method of labor for which Mrs. White said women were especially fitted and in which they could do a work “in the line of ministry” that men could not do. EWRWC 8.2

Fourth, elsewhere in this same volume Ellen White discusses the need for more ministers to be trained and enter the field. If at this time she had intended to open the regular ministerial option for women, one might well expect her to say so. But note the references to gender in the following statement: EWRWC 8.3

There is an urgent demand for laborers in the gospel field. Young men are needed for this work; God calls for them. Their education is of primary importance in our colleges, and in no case should it be ignored or regarded as a secondary matter. It is entirely wrong for teachers, by suggesting other occupations, to discourage young men who might be qualified to do acceptable work in the ministry. Those who present hindrances to prevent young men from fitting themselves for this work are counterworking the plans of God, and they will have to give an account of their course. There is among us more than an average of men of ability. If their capabilities were brought into use, we should have twenty ministers where we now have one. 22

This view is reinforced later in the same volume where Section Seven, “Calls to Service,” opens with an article entitled, “Young Men in the Ministry.” 23 Among numerous calls there for “men” and “young men” to enter the ministry, there is no mention of women being urged to join the ranks of the ministers, mention which we might well expect if it had been Mrs. White’s intention earlier in the volume to indicate that women as well as men were to prepare for the regular gospel ministry.EWRWC 8.4

So in the statement with which this section opened, in which Mrs. White said that “the accompaniment of the Holy Spirit...prepares workers, both men and women, to become pastors to the flock of God,” was she calling for women as well as men to be pastors in today’s sense of the term? Her use of the term “pastor” to describe a function as well as an office and her recognition that the two did not always go together leave open an alternative interpretation—that “pastors to the flock of God” designates those who exercise a personal ministry of visitation and instruction in the home. If one chooses to adopt the alternative explanation, then the statement is harmonious with other statements Mrs. White makes about the kind of work women are especially qualified to do, fulfilling a role that is complementary to that of men. It also harmonizes with her specifically male-directed calls for ministerial workers in the same volume of the Testimonies. If on the other hand one chooses to say that this passage does call for women to serve in the office of pastor, then one must account for the singularity of this statement—there are no other, different statements that make the same point in an unequivocal manner. EWRWC 8.5

  link


Peace

Jason posted: "Some hold that Ellen White is here calling for women, under the preparation of the Holy Spirit, to become gospel ministers in the commonly-accepted sense of the term today, that is, the conference-employed, perhaps even ordained, leader of a local congregation. But is that how she used the term “pastor” in this passage?" EWRWC

 

 EGW said the Holy Spirit prepares men and women to become pastors, is that not a Gospel minister ? 

 Forget about "the commonly-accepted sense of the term today", forget about ordination, what sense of the term is EGW referring to when she says the Holy Spirit prepares men and women to become pastors? 

 

 I know the context is about canvassing, but shouldn't pastors engage in canvassing work, spreading and teaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ? 

Blessings! 

 

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