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Thanks for your reply Reasoning.

Reasoning said: I was just curious if you would stand back and stay silent on an issue you believe goes against what GOD says not to do.

True Reasoning sadly we have a smaller audience as this site seems to be in some kind of lock-down Bu the Bible says: Eze 33:6  But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet, and the people are not warned, and the sword comes and takes any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood I will require at the watchman's hand.' So clearly the Lord has left us with some responsibility to call out wrong when we see it.

Reasoning said: I still want to see that, where did GOD said women cant be pastors?

Well, brother Reasoning, so would I, we have seen many long documents produced over the years because the Lord did not give us the simple command. There can be many reasons for this,

1 God expect us to use our own brain to work it out as we have seen many have tried and come up with different answers.

2 God has left it open because there are situations where only a Woman is suited for the position as we have seen happen in China where Pr Bachelor who is not in favor of women becoming pastors found himself preaching under a female pastor.

3 God has left it to us to consult Him when we come to that roadblock and we did 3 times and the answer was NO and here we are some divisions flatly refuse to hear Gods will. Similar to Korah's rebellion in Exodus as they were coming up to the border of Canaan. So Israel was led out to the desert for another 40 years. I do not know your age but I am getting on a bit and do not expect to live for another 40 years. As you may know, the Lord should have been here already, but clearly, the church is not ready it still has plenty of wrinkles and spots and seem to get worse as time goes by.

Reasoning said: EGW said the Holy Spirit prepares men and women to become pastors, what kind of pastor is the Holy Spirit preparing women and men to become?

Brother Reasoning I have already given my opinion on what EGW said. Seems to me you are not happy with my answer.

Reasoning said: I know you have a problem with women getting ordained, but putting ordination to the side, are you saying you have a problem with a non ordained women being the head pastor in charge of an SDA temple? For you, does it boil down to, That women can do everything else just not run a SDA temple?

Reasoning, you can twist and turn it as much as you care to, Women should not be ordained Pastors according to the vote that has now been passed by the GC Session. Do you not think we need to respect God's will. Or do you think it does not matter what God says like some of your brothers there in the NAD your own wishes takes preference to God's? Really brother talk about rebellion.

Reasoning Said: It's hard for me to take what you say in that GOD said woman are not to become pastors, and then read the SOP, and it says the Holy Spirit is preparing women to become pastors.

Yes, I can understand what you are saying but brother Reasoning would we not have to bend our will to God's? And you are not alone here as it seems, and I guess as those people cannot bend their will to God's, we need to prepare for another 40 years in the wilderness. Only Joshua and Caleb entered Canaan of their generation, the rebels died in the desert.

Peace 

Ian wrote: "Well, brother Reasoning, so would I, we have seen many long documents produced over the years because the Lord did not give us the simple command. There can be many reasons for this,.."

 Thank you my brother.... Ok, thank you for the clarification... GOD didn't say women shouldn't become pastors, but if we use our reasoning capabilities you believe that is what the Bible teaches. 

 Ian wrote: "Brother Reasoning I have already given my opinion on what EGW said. Seems to me you are not happy with my answer."

 I'm sorry, I know you explained the context of EGW's statement, however it doesn't change the fact that the Holy Spirit prepares men and women to become pastors. So when I hear women are not to become pastors, then I have to take pause... I'm trying to see the clear lines of being a pastor. Do you understand? 

 Ian wrote: "Reasoning, you can twist and turn it as much as you care to, Women should not be ordained Pastors according to the vote that has now been passed by the GC Session."

 I'm not trying to twist anything, i apologize if you see it that way... I'm just trying to see what's acceptable.. Your focus is ordination, I asked you multiple times to put it to the side, but you keep gravitating back to ordaintion. 

 Again, putting ordination to the side, are you saying you have a problem with a non ordained women being the head pastor in charge of an SDA temple?

 For you, does it boil down to, That women can do everything else just not run a SDA temple? Or are there other positions she shouldn't have? 

 Apart from from running an SDA temple and ordination, do you believe a woman can become a non ordained pastor in the SDA Church? 

 (Reminder --- put ordination to the side in a lock box for a moment please) 

 

 Blessings! 

 

Thanks for your reply Reasoning

Reasoning wrote: For you, does it boil down to, That women can do everything else just not run a SDA temple? Or are there other positions she shouldn't have?

That just about sums up my idea about women being in leadership of a church (Temple) as you put it. So I do not think a woman can be in leadership of a Church or a Conference or a Division or the General Conference for that matter.

Reasoning wrote: I'm sorry, I know you explained the context of EGW's statement, however it doesn't change the fact that the Holy Spirit prepares men and women to become pastors. So when I hear women are not to become pastors, then I have to take pause... I'm trying to see the clear lines of being a pastor. Do you understand?

Yes I know what you are getting at because it says preparing women and men for a ministry I think I have mentioned we need to look at the context this was written under Did you know it comes from the book written for Colporters and therefore I believe it means Colporters and not Pastors for a Church.

Reasoning wrote: Thank you my brother.... Ok, thank you for the clarification... GOD didn't say women shouldn't become pastors, but if we use our reasoning capabilities you believe that is what the Bible teaches.

Yes because we have had this before the GC Session 3 times now and every time the answer was no Does Gods Holy Spirit not count for anything? After all, The same method was used in the council in Jerusalem Acts 15. The letter the council sent to the Churches where it says in part “For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us,” As I understand it what the Holy Spirit says does not matter anymore to some in the SDA church. Because the message does not suit. Do you think God will Ignore such blatant disobedience? I am dismayed that it could even happen in a Church that prides itself on being Gods true Church.

Well said br Elijah

me to is prepared to follow the leading of the Holy Spirit. God has spoken three time in a Row.

God bless

Indeed, brother Benicio. What amazes me about all this is as we know God has let His will be known not only once but 3 times in a row and here we are, where we see several Divisions are persisting in ordaining female pastors, where is the spiritual ear? To me, it must not be there, as we read the bible we read Jesus saying: Rev 2:7  "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God." ' I fear for those who are so blatantly going against God's clearly expressed will. 

In reading the arguments and rebuttals, I am of the informed opinion that the root of the matter is that people are mixing up gender with God's role for his children to do. For Reasoning, you are attempting to focus on a specific point and the correspondents continue to swing back to their perspective on women ordination.

The facts are that man: Adventist members, and not God, are the ones who made and took the decision not to grant female pastors the title of ordained minister. Two, the Adventist organisation has gotten into this sticky situation because of their involvement with the IRS. Three, In the Adventist circle, culture dictates what is accepted and what is not accepted, and that is glossed over with a spiritual paint.

Garth Said: The facts are that man: Adventist members, and not God, are the ones who made and took the decision not to grant female pastors the title of ordained minister. Two, the Adventist organisation has gotten into this sticky situation because of their involvement with the IRS. Three, In the Adventist circle, culture dictates what is accepted and what is not accepted, and that is glossed over with a spiritual paint.

Garth, I think you are severely misinformed no man takes any decision in Isolation to the body of the SDA church. You must have mixed the SDA with the Catholics, where the Pope has such a power.  

Hi Elijah,

If I am misinformed, permit me to prove this point. One prominent biblical author said that the God's Spirit is the one who gives out spiritual jobs to win souls. Would you have a problem with God's Spirit if he appoints a woman to lead His flock?  Would you agree with the statement that the Biblical author is wrong for saying that God's Spirit can appoint female or male, male or female, to lead his flock?

Thanks for your reply Garth maybe you can explain to me how The Holy Spirit at one place says No to WO as it was in the GC Session 2015 and as you claim gives women the desire to become Ordained Pastors. I am not sure how you view God? But as SDA we do not see God as an author of confusion we see that as the preserve of Satan. That is except for those who have an ax to grind.   

Peace

 Brother Ian, correct me if I'm wrong, only ordained pastors could be head pastor of a SDA church right? 

 Excluding be ordained and being head pastor of a a SDA church, do you believe women can be licensed pastors in the SDA Church? 

Blessings! 

Brother Reasoning I find this persistence quite amazing. The Holy Spirit said NO to WO to me that should have settled the matter. Maybe you can explain to me why you are so persistent to go against the will of God? 

There is plenty of positions for women to fill apart from being pastors, To me, this smacks of a need to be like other churches and I am sure you have seen the terrible things that have happened to those churches that do ordain women as Pastors. Why do you want our church to follow in these footsteps?

 

Peace

Ian wrote: "Brother Reasoning I find this persistence quite amazing. The Holy Spirit said NO to WO to me that should have settled the matter. Maybe you can explain to me why you are so persistent to go against the will of God? "

 First, I don't think you really know my position, you assume to know what I believe, which in turns have yourself believing I'm going against GOD.  Also, even though I respect the vote, and it should be respected, I don't believe a vote is akin to the "Holy Spirit said"... But that's me. 


Ian wrote: "There is plenty of positions for women to fill apart from being pastors, To me, this smacks of a need to be like other churches and I am sure you have seen the terrible things that have happened to those churches that do ordain women as Pastors. Why do you want our church to follow in these footsteps?"

  What terrible things do we see in the other churches brother Ian? 

 Again, you don't know what I want, it's just assumptions on your part. Please, do yourself a favor, unless you inquire exactly what I believe, don't assume. That's why I'm asking you many questions, and I appreciate you taking the time to answer, but I don't assume what you think, I let you tell me. 

Blessings!

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