Adventist Online

I have been looking at supposed SDA online sites. Unfortunately I am getting more and more confused with who is I find this guy teaching a 2520 prophecy..and all accounts he is an SDA layman.

How many more are amongst us? Do you ever think you are reading an SDA site when in fact it's not of our teaching?


A Review of Jeff Pippenger’s teachings - Norman McNulty, M.D.



*** Adventist Online Admin Note ***
Since this discussion is the top search result on Google for the term "Jeff Pippenger", we have seen a 'round up the troops' movement of Pippenger supporters.  They come here to defend beliefs which the Seventh-day Adventist Church has found to be baseless.  Beliefs which have lead these same supporters of Jeff Pippenger to leave the Seventh-day Adventist Church.  This is a web site for Seventh-day Adventists by Seventh-day Adventists.  Each new member must answer "Yes" to the following question to create a profile here:  "Do you agree to uphold the principles and beliefs of the Seventh-day Adventist church in your conduct on this site and follow the Site Rules & Guidelines?"

Our Site Rules & Guidelines includes the following rule:

12. This is a site by Seventh-day Adventists for Seventh-day Adventists.  We welcome all seekers of God's truth here.  We believe that God will continue to reveal His truth to His people as time progresses.  Thus we are constantly seeking a better understanding of God and His word.  We welcome all that are doing the same. That said, if it becomes apparent that your purpose in being a member of this site is to promote a different agenda and/or sow discord among the brethren, your ability to interact with this site may be restricted.

We ask that all members uphold the pledge they made when joining this site.

Views: 33070

Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

The Greek is equally definite. The Septuagint has in Lev. xxvi, heptakis, which is an adverb, signifying seven times. In Dan. iv, 16, 25, for Nebuchadnezzar's seven times we have not heptakis, the adverb, but heptakairoi, a noun and its adjective. And in all cases where the word time occurs, denoting a prophetic period, as in Dan. vii, 25; xii, 7; Rev. xii, 14, it is from the noun kairos. Such a thing as a prophetic period based on an adverb is not to be found. {January 26, 1864 JWe, ARSH 68.11} 

[Again, he is here incorrect. The comparison of Hebrew a Greek grammar is not the issue. The translators of the LXX chose to translate it into good Greek. More importantly they chose to translate the word ‘more’ as ‘added’. What James White fails to realise is that the word ‘seven ‘ can only be understood by the words that surround it. There is not the proper Hebrew words to make this a comparative. The English word translated as ‘more’ in verses 18 and 21 implies duration not comparison. The translators of the LXX recognised this.]

So then, there is no prophetic period in Lev. xxvi; and those who imagine that such a thing exists, and are puzzling themselves over the adjustment of its several dates, are simply beating the air. To ignore, or treat with neglect, a prophetic period where one is plainly given, is censurable in the extreme. It is an equally futile, though not so heinous, a course, to endeavour to create one where none exists. {January 26, 1864 JWe, ARSH 68.12}

[Here we find the real reason for his article. There were those who were time-setting using Leviticus 26 and rather than a well thought out study on Leviticus 26, we have a dialectical diatribe. The arguments and reasons that we (and Miller) have suggested for Leviticus 26 representing a symbolic time period are not even dealt with. James White’s dismissive gesture is befitting a fly and not a truth that was established by the LORD’s leading. The fact that so little was ever written against such a foundational teaching as the ‘seven times’ in Leviticus 26, that is on both the 1843 and 1850 charts, should cause one to pause and wonder, “is the neglect of this truth that faded with nary a whimper, evidence that it was inconsequential or evidence that God hid it so that it might once again be found, and at a time, when it would be most needed?”]

The expression in Dan. 4:16 is not prophetic, for it is used in plain, literal narration. (See verse 25.)

[McNulty, and others, always bring up Daniel 4. They suggest that we somehow use the seven times of Nebuchadnezzar in our computation of the 2520. WE see an analogue between the 2520 of Leviticus 26 and Daniel 4 but recognise, as did Miller, that Nebuchadnezzar’s ‘seven times’ was fulfilled in a literal seven year period by Nebuchadnezzar himself. This is a red herring thrown out by McNulty and others.]

Following these clear explanations from key pioneers such as James White and Uriah Smith, the issue of the 2520 prophecy was seldom discussed among Seventh-day Adventists until recently. Ellen White never makes reference to this “prophecy.”

[This is true regarding Adventism but not regarding Sister White. Sister White does not make explicit reference to the 2520 or ‘seven times’, we admit, but it is misleading ( self-imposed ignorance) to state the she never makes reference to this prophecy. In her references to the prophetic periods that ended in 1843 that were now to be seen in 1844 (see CET 50, EW 232-236 and GC 457), her recognition that the Millerites preached that the last and longest prophetic period brought to view in the Bible was about to expire (see GC 351) and her recognition that Miller preached ‘various chronological periods’ {the2300 days, the seven times continuance and 1335 days) that were the ‘times before appointed’ (compare GC 232 with The Memoirs of Wm. Miller page 9,10)

Pippenger and a few others have resurrected this so-called prophecy in the last few years. Due to the authority they grant to the 1843 and 1850 charts, they believe that the prophecies that were there taught will again be taught by God’s last-day people. Clearly, many of the prophecies will be. But, in addition, they are also teaching what they believe is an advanced understanding of the 2520 prophecy. And, rather than choosing between Miller or Edson's viewpoints, they hold both as correct. They believe that there are two 2520 periods.

[As mentioned earlier Miller taught both periods. That more light and significance is realised now regarding the 2520, is understandable, in that, we are able to see the need for this prophecy at this time. The 2300 days has been under attack within Adventism. We see the return to foundational Adventism as an answer to the opposition that our church has from within. The 2520 clearly marks the Seventh-day Adventist Church as Spiritual Israel and confirms the prophetic foundation upon which it was laid.]

The first extends from 723 B.C. to 1798 and begins with the captivity of the northern kingdom of Israel. The second extends from 677 B.C. to 1844 and begins with the captivity of Manasseh, king of Judah. They teach that the first period represents the “scattering” of God’s people and that the second represents the “gathering.” God passed over Israel and Judah “seven times” because they broke His covenant. Proponents believe that at the end of the second 2520 prophecy (which they believe ended in 1844), God entered into covenant with spiritual Israel, the Second Advent movement. Thus, proponents assert that we are to enter into covenant and receive the seal of the living God, we must accept this teaching.

[All true, except the last sentence. I'm not sure where he gets this idea]

Some go so far as to teach that any time you find “seven times” mentioned in Scripture, it has a “spiritual” application to the 2520 prophecy. For example, the seven years of plenty in Egypt represented the “gathering,” and the seven lean years represented the “scattering.” They also point to the “seven times” or years that Nebuchadnezzar was judged in Daniel 4. In addition, they teach that “mene, mene, tekel, upharsin” from Daniel 5 and the fall of ancient Babylon, when added up in “gerah,” is 2520. They believe this handwriting on the wall, adding up to 2520 and describing the fall of ancient Babylon, is symbolic of the loud cry message. It announces the fall of end-time Babylon, because those who give the loud cry will understand the 2520 prophecy.

[There are too many distortions to address here. It is true the writing on the wall adds up to 2520 gerahs. I am not sure how this is a criticism. We see Nebuchadnezzar’s and Belshazzar’s 2520’s as analogue to Judah’s and Israel’s 2520’s respectively. That is, they give us details regarding the significance of these prophetic periods. We do not, however, use them as prophetic periods applying to our time. They are only to be applied locally and literally to Nebuchadnezzar and Belshazzar.]

While it is clearly true that the story of the fall of Babylon in Daniel 5 has many applications to the fall of spiritual Babylon, this is but one of many examples of their trying to find significance in the number 2520, or seven times, where there is none.

[Why is there no significance? He doesn’t say.]

With respect to “scattering” and the “gathering,” this is a teaching seen in Scripture. However, it seems strange to suggest that the first 2520 time period represents the scattering while the second represents the gathering. Both the northern and southern kingdoms would have been scattered for the great majority of the time supposedly encompassed by these prophecies. Let’s take a closer look at these arguments.

[We do not say that the 2520 for northern Israel is only a scattering prophecy and that the 2520 for Judah is only a gathering prophecy. Northern Israel was scattered never to be gathered. Judah was scattered to be gathered in 1844 as spiritual Israel. Hoshea, in his captivity, dies in prison. Manasseh, in his captivity, repented and was restored to his throne (though as a vassal to Assyria). Thus we see the significance of Nebuchadnezzar’s and Belshazzar’s 2520’s. Both Manasseh and Nebuchadnezzar were restored to their kingdom. Both Hoshea and Belshazzar were killed.]

The Jews, for whom the second 2520 prophecy is applied, were “scattered” during the 70 years of captivity beginning in 605 B.C., not 677 B.C. Then, they returned again to Jerusalem within a period falling well short of 2520 years. By 457 B.C., the decree had been given by Artaxerxes to restore and rebuild Jerusalem. Thus it could be argued that the southern kingdom was being gathered again and given 490 probationary years. Ultimately, the Jews were scattered in the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.

[An entire paper could be written in response to this paragraph but a paragraph will have to do here. First, Miller understood Biblical history. He chose Manasseh’s captivity as the start of the ‘seven times’ of Leviticus 26 because as he states, “I concluded that the seven times of Gentile supremacy must commence when the Jews ceased to be an independent nation, at the captivity of Manasseh, which the best chronologers assigned to B. C. 677.” (Memoirs of Wm. Miller p. 76) That the return of Israel to the land of Palestine under the Decrees of Cyrus, et al. is incomplete and does not end the 2520 is clearly expressed in the book of Daniel. The prophecy takes speaks of the rebuilding of the temple also speaks of its destruction. The prophecy that speaks of the return to the land also speaks of its continued desolation. In fact, Daniel can hardly be understood without a knowledge of the scattering and gathering as understood by Miller (paganism and papalism being the two desolating powers). McNulty seems not to understand how the prophecies of Daniel move from literal to spiritual Israel and therefore his critique of the 2520 makes little sense.]

Another argument used to support the 2520 prophecy is the use of the term “times of the Gentiles” found in Luke 21:24. It says:

And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

It is argued that there are two 1260 year periods comprising the 2520 and the plural use of “times” in the “times of the Gentiles” refers to these two periods. It is argued that Luke 21:24 shows that literal Jerusalem was destroyed during this first 1260 year period by the Gentiles by pagan Rome in 70 A.D. Then, Revelation 11:1-3 is quoted, as seen below, which describes the second phase of the “times of the Gentiles,” which was fulfilled by papal Rome from 538 - 1798.

And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

Thus, it is argued that the “times of the Gentiles” includes the destruction of Jerusalem by pagan Rome, as well as the 1260 years of persecution of God’s people, spiritual Jerusalem on earth, by papal Rome.

However, there are some holes in this point. First of all, a careful reading of Luke 21:24 suggests that the destruction of literal Jerusalem is not what Jesus is referring to when He talks about Jerusalem being trodden down of the Gentiles. Notice that Jerusalem would be “trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.” If we accept the premise that pagan Rome represented the Gentiles who destroyed literal Jerusalem, then we should have seen literal Jerusalem trodden down until the fall of the pagan Roman empire in 476 A.D.

However, the destruction of literal Jerusalem in 70 A.D. was the end of its prophetic significance and it did not continue to be trodden down. Pagan Rome continued till 476 A.D. Furthermore, in the very next verse, Luke 21:25, Jesus describes the signs in the heavens that would occur toward the end of the 1260 years and which correspond with the events of the sixth seal in Revelation 6. Therefore, it can bed seen that Jesus has transitioned, when speaking of the “times of the Gentiles,” from literal Jerusalem, to the persecution of spiritual Jerusalem, or the Christian church, in the last half of Luke 21:24.
With respect to the 1260 years and the “times of the Gentiles,” it can clearly be seen how spiritual Jerusalem was “trodden down” by the Gentiles of papal Rome until papal Rome received its deadly wound in 1798 at the end of the 1260 years. Furthermore, the plural use of “times” in the “times of the Gentiles” is simply referring to the “times, times, and half a time” or the 1260 years; it is not referring to two separate 1260 year periods. Therefore, the “times of the Gentiles” is only represented by the 1260 years, and comes to its end in 1798 according to Revelation 11:2.

[Here I cannot address fully McNulty’s confusion, except to say, that he does not grasp the significance of Miller’s arguments. ]

There is another significant hole in the argument that the destruction of literal Jerusalem is part of the “times of the Gentiles” as the first part of two 1260 year periods. If we accept the premise that paganism represents the Gentiles in the first half of the 2520 prophecy and that papal Rome represents the Gentiles in the second half of the 2520 prophecy, that means we must use 723 B.C. as our starting point for the “times of the Gentiles,” as 2520 years after 723 B.C. ends in 1798. However, according to those who believe in this idea, the 2520 prophecy that began in 723 B.C. is supposed to represent the scattering of the northern kingdom of Israel. Obviously, the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. by pagan Rome represents God's punishment on the southern kingdom of Judah.

[Again, McNulty is confused about our position regarding the two 2520’s. The destruction of Jerusalem occurred as a type of the end of the world. It occurred due to the rejection of the Jewish nation of Christ in the final week of Daniel’s 70 week prophecy. It is at that point that literal Israel play no further role in prophecy. The trampling down that continued from 24 AD on, applies to spiritual Israel. The destruction of literal Jerusalem is dealt with in the opening chapter of the Great Controversy and should be studied and understood by all Seventh-day Adventists.]

According to those who teach that there are two 2520 periods, the 2520 years for the southern kingdom of Judah began in 677 B.C. This means that the first 1260 years for this second 2520 prophecy relating to the southern kingdom would end in 584 A.D. and the second 1260 years would take you to 1844. However, Revelation 11 makes it clear that that “times of the Gentiles” with respect to papal Rome was from 538 – 1798.

[There is no first 1260 year period for Judah’s 2520. It is not taught by us and is a complete red herring proffered for those willing to take a bite.]

By trying to fit Luke 21:24 into a fulfillment of the 2520 year prophecy, these teachers have unwittingly created an inconsistency. The 2520 prophecy relating to the “times of the Gentiles” necessarily must have begun in 723 B.C. to end in 1798. However, that obviously would have related to the northern kingdom, and the destruction of Jerusalem as a fulfillment of the “times of the Gentiles” related to the southern kingdom. If you claim that the destruction of Jerusalem was a fulfillment of the 2520 year prophecy in its first half, you would have to believe that the “times of Gentiles” ends in 1844. But that clearly cannot be the case based on Revelation 11:2. Therefore, we can only clearly accept that there were 1260 years of prophecy relating to the “times of the Gentiles” with respect to papal Rome from 538 - 1798, but there is no clear time prophecy with respect to the work of pagan Rome in its destruction of literal Jerusalem.


Furthermore, the “scattering” of spiritual Jerusalem during the 1260 years was not due to the disobedience of God’s people. God prepared the wilderness (see Revelation 12:6) to protect His faithful followers during that time. It was simply a period where God allowed Satan to have pre-eminence over the world through papal Rome so that the principles of Satan’s government would be fully developed. This time period obviously had nothing to do with the disobedience of northern Israel or of Judah as they both had long since passed off the scene and probation had closed for the Jews as a nation in 34 A.D.

[Nonetheless, during the 1260 years of papal supremacy , God still did not have a denominated people. That must wait until the end of that period before He could begin the work of gathering His church. In 1798, God began this work by unsealing the book of Daniel.]

Daniel 12:7 also shows that the scattering ends after the 1260 years in 1798.

And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

Here we find that the scattering is “accomplished” after the 1260 years, which ended in 1798 and coincides with the end of the “times of the Gentiles.” This shows that God began to gather His people in 1798, which prophetically is the beginning of the time of the end. This also represents the time when the sealed portions of the book of Daniel would be unsealed.

[We agree here. In fact, that is our main point. The end of the two 2520 marks the period in which God begins the work of restoring his church and gathering them to be his denominated people.]

Therefore, God began gathering His people through the rise of the Second Advent movement, and this movement was raised up through understanding the unsealed prophecies of Daniel. The gathering did not begin in 1844. It had actually already begun at the end of the 1260 years and continues at the present time until Jesus returns.

[Again, we agree.]

It appears interesting that the two 2520 time periods end in 1798 and 1844 respectively. Both of those dates obviously have prophetic significance due to the 1260 and 1290 prophecies that lead to 1798, and the 2300 day prophecy that leads to 1844. Despite this superficial attraction, we have already seen the refutation of the two 2520 “prophecies” by Uriah Smith and James White. Furthermore, the beginning date of 677 B.C. for the “second” 2520 prophecy when Manasseh was taken captive, is questionable at best.

First of all, Manasseh was released from his captivity. Judah was not taken into captivity until 605 B.C. as a fulfillment for their disobedience, and Jeremiah prophesied in chapters 25 and 29 of his book that this captivity would last for 70 years. Daniel took this prophecy to heart in his prayer found in Daniel 9. Daniel seemed to be concerned that the 2300 day prophecy of Daniel 8 foretold an extension of the Jewish captivity in fulfillment of the curses foretold in Deuteronomy 28.

The bottom line is that even if the 2520 prophecy were actual, the beginning date of 677 B.C. cannot be a legitimate starting date because the captivity of the Jews did not begin until 605 B.C. when Nebuchadnezzar besieged Jerusalem. It seems that some have arbitrarily tried to find a starting point that would end in 1843/1844 to make the 2520 prophecy work. In contrast, the starting and ending points are very clear when we look at the 2300 day/year prophecy.

[As we have shown earlier, Manasseh’s captivity was chosen by Miller for a reason. Also, the 2520 was the first prophecy that Miller found that ended in 1843. To say that we are arbitrarily choosing the 677 BC date, when this date was the one chosen by Miller is deceptive. The siege of Jerusalem does not fulfill the conditions as the start of the ‘seven times’ but is part of the punishments that would continue if Israel was not reformed by previous punishments. The breaking of the ‘pride of your power’ in Leviticus 26:19 begins the 2520 periods, not the destruction of the city and the temple.]

One further argument used to support the 2520 prophecy is that it is on the 1843 chart, and the 1843 chart was endorsed by Ellen White in Early Writings, p. 74.

I have seen that the 1843 chart was directed by the hand of the Lord, and that it should not be altered; that the figures were as He wanted them; that His hand was over and hid a mistake in some of the figures, so that none could see it, until His hand was removed.

This statement is used to suggest that the 2520 should not be altered from the message of the Millerite movement and that the Lord wanted the figure of the 2520 on the chart. However, Ellen White gives a helpful, clarifying statement about the chart in Spalding and Magan Collection, p. 1 which is very similar to her statement in Early Writings.

I saw that the truth should be made plain upon tables, that the earth and the fullness thereof is the Lord’s, and that necessary means should not be spared to make it plain. I saw that the old chart was directed by the Lord, and that not a figure of it should be altered except by inspiration. I saw that the figures of the chart were as God would have them, and that His hand was over and hid a mistake in some of the figures, so that none should see it till His hand was removed.

Notice, that if there is something on the chart that contradicts inspiration, it should be altered, in addition to the mistake that many of the prophecies end in 1843, instead of 1844.

[The mistake was corrected on the 1850 chart and is clearly pointed out by Sister White in EW 236. That mistake was the 1843 date.]

The question then is, do we have a statement from inspiration that shows that the 2520 is not an actual time prophecy? The answer is yes!

[No, not really, in spite of the exclamation mark.]

Ellen White makes some very clear statements, showing what is the longest and last prophetic time period. The first is from The Great Controversy, pp. 351, 352.
The experience of the disciples who preached the ‘gospel of the kingdom’ at the first advent of Christ, had its counterpart in the experience of those who proclaimed the message of His second advent. As the disciples went out preaching, ‘The time is fulfilled, the kingdom of God is at hand,’ so Miller and his associates proclaimed that the longest and last prophetic period brought to view in the Bible was about to expire, that the judgment was at hand, and the everlasting kingdom was to be ushered in. The preaching of the disciples in regard to time was based on the seventy weeks of Daniel 9. The message given by Miller and his associates announced the termination of the 2300 days of Daniel 8:14, of which the seventy weeks form a part. The preaching of each was based upon the fulfillment of a different portion of the same great prophetic period.

[I ask the question, what was the longest prophetic period proclaimed by Miller and his associates? Also, what prophetic period is the 2300 days a portion of?]

Like the first disciples, William Miller and his associates did not, themselves, fully comprehend the import of the message which they bore. Errors that had been long established in the church prevented them from arriving at a correct interpretation of an important point in the prophecy. Therefore, though they proclaimed the message which God had committed to them to be given to the world, yet through a misapprehension of its meaning they suffered disappointment.

In explaining Daniel 8:14, ‘Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed,' Miller, as has been stated, adopted the generally received view that the earth is the sanctuary, and he believed that the cleansing of the sanctuary represented the purification of the earth by fire at the coming of the Lord. When, therefore, he found that the close of the 2300 days was definitely foretold, he concluded that this revealed the time of the second advent. His error resulted from accepting the popular view as to what constitutes the sanctuary.
We find a second statement pertaining to this in Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary, vol. 7, p. 971.

The first and second angels’ messages were to be proclaimed, but no further light was to be revealed before these messages had done their specific work. This is represented by the angel standing with one foot on the sea, proclaiming with a most solemn oath that time should be no longer.

This time, which the angel declares with a solemn oath, is not the end of this world's history, neither of probationary time, but of prophetic time, which should precede the advent of our Lord. That is, the people will not have another message upon definite time. After this period of time, reaching from 1842 to 1844, there can be no definite tracing of the prophetic time. The longest reckoning reaches to the autumn of 1844.

Ellen White then explicitly states that the 2300 days points to the autumn of 1844 in The Great Controversy, pp. 328, 329.

“Miller and his associates at first believed that the 2300 days would terminate in the spring of 1844, whereas the prophecy points to the autumn of that year” .

[I am not quite sure how McNulty draws his conclusions from these quotes. He doesn’t say but it is clear that he makes a great many assumptions to come to those conclusions, assumptions that we as Seventh-day Adventists have made for a long time but need to reconsider.]

We have heard some argue that the quote from The Great Controversy, pp. 351, 352 is actually including the 70 weeks and the 2300 days as part of the 2520 “prophecy.” However, careful evaluation of that passage shows that Sister White only talks about the 70 weeks and the 2300 days. Never does she talk about the 2520 “prophecy” in any of her writings, let alone in The Great Controversy, pp. 351, 352. To believe that she is implying its existence as the longest and last prophecy, without her ever specifically stating so, is reading something into the passage that is not there.

[This assertion involves a circular argument and begs the question. I have shown that Sister White clearly (though indirectly) refers to the 2520 in GC 323. Yet, those opposed to the 2520 as being a valid time prophecy ignore this and interpret any reference she makes to the 2520 to the contrary.]

Furthermore, the passage in Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary, vol. 7, p. 971 is obviously talking about Revelation 10. We have always known that Revelation 10:6 refers to no more prophetic time after the ending of the 2300 days. Sister White corroborates that in this statement. The little book open in Revelation 10 points specifically to the unsealed prophecy of Daniel 8:14. To try to read 2520 days/years into the seven years of Nebuchadnezzar or mene, mene, tekel, upharsin as 2520 gerah into the unsealed prophecy of Daniel as shown in Revelation 10, is going beyond the clear prophecies of Daniel.

[Huh? What is he saying? We do not teach any prophetic periods extending beyond 1844. We do not teach Nebuchadnezzar’s and Belshazzar’s 2520 as having significance in prophetic time extending to 1884 or after. Again, McNulty is either demonstrating his ignorance regarding out views or is intentionally misrepresenting them.]

Only the 1260, 1290, 1335, and 2300 days were specifically taught from the book of Daniel during the time period of 1840 - 1844. Those were the prophetic periods that were unsealed from the little book of Daniel that was open in Revelation 10. Thus, the longest prophetic period Ellen White is referring to is obviously the 2300 days of Daniel 8:14. Also, it is through the understanding of the 2300 days in type/antitype, day of atonement/fall festivals, as well as the decree of Artaxerxes in the autumn of 457 B.C. that we reach the autumn of 1844, specifically, October 22. You cannot do so through the 2520.

[Again, he resorts to circular reasoning.]

The statements from The Great Controversy, p. 351, Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary, vol. 7, p. 971, and The Great Controversy, pp. 328, 329 make it clear that the 2300 days is the longest and last time prophecy. And because inspiration makes clear, under Inspiration, that the 2300 day prophecy is the longest and the last, to us falls the duty of removing the 2520 prophecy from the 1843 and 1850 charts just as Ellen White said we should, in the Spaulding and Magan Collection.

On the basis of the statements from James White and Uriah Smith, and more importantly, Ellen White, it is clear that the 2520 prophecy is not an actual time prophecy nor part of the loud cry/sealing message for Adventists. Those who teach this are simply propagating another deception that is leading to much confusion among God’s people at the end of time.

In our next article we shall conclude this series. We have demonstrated what the “loud cry” is not; in our final article, we will answer in the positive, showing what the “loud cry” message is. 

[I look forward to reviewing that article as well.]

For those that cklaim that Sister White never mentions the 2520, how do you respond to the comparison of these two quotes?

First Miller,

"Another kind of evidence that vitally affected my mind was the chronology of the Scriptures. I found, on pursuing the study of the Bible, various chronological periods extending, according to my understanding of them, to the coming of the Saviour. I found that predicted events, which had been fulfilled in the past, often occurred within a given time. The one hundred and twenty years to the flood, Gen.6:3; the seven days that were to precede it, with forty days of predicted rain, Gen.7:4; the four hundred years of the sojourn of Abraham's seed, Gen.15:13; the three days of the butler's and baker's dreams, Gen.40:12-20; the seven years of Pharaoh's, Gen.41:28-54; the forty years in the wilderness, Num.14:34; the three and a half years of famine, 1Kings 17:1; the sixty-five years to the breaking of Ephraim, Isa.7:8; the seventy years' captivity, Jer.25:11; Nebuchadnezzar's seven times, Dan.4:13-16; and the seven weeks, threescore and two weeks, and the one week, making seventy weeks, determined upon the Jews, Dan.9:24-27; the events limited by these times were all once only a matter of prophecy, and were fulfilled in accordance with the predictions. {1853 SB, MWM 74.2}

When, therefore, I found the 2300 prophetic days, which were to mark the length of the vision from the Persian to the end of the fourth kingdom, the seven times' continuance of the dispersion of God's people, and the 1335 prophetic days to the standing of Daniel in his lot, all evidently extending to the advent, with other prophetical periods, I could but regard them as 'the times before appointed,' which God had revealed 'unto his servants the prophets.' As I was fully convinced that 'all Scripture given by inspiration of God is profitable,' - that it came not at any time by the will of man, but was written as holy men were moved by the Holy Ghost, and was written for our learning, that we, through patience and comfort of the Scriptures, might have hope, - I could but regard the chronological portions of the Bible as being as much a portion of the word of God, and as much entitled to our serious consideration, as any other portion of the Scriptures. {1853 SB, MWM 75.1}

Now Ellen White,

"Another kind of evidence that vitally affected my mind," he says, "was the chronology of the Scriptures. . . . I found that predicted events, which had been fulfilled in the past, often occurred within a given time. The one hundred and twenty years to the flood (Genesis 6:3); the seven days that were to precede it, with forty days of predicted rain (Genesis 7:4); the four hundred years of the sojourn of Abraham's seed (Genesis 15:13); the three days of the butler's and baker's dreams (Genesis 40:12-20); the seven years of Pharaoh's (Genesis 41:28-54); the forty years in the wilderness (Numbers 14:34); the three and a half years of famine (1 Kings 17:1) [see Luke 4:25;] . . . the seventy years' captivity (Jeremiah 25:11); Nebuchadnezzar's seven times (Daniel 4:13-16); and the seven weeks, threescore and two weeks, and the one week, making seventy weeks, determined upon the Jews (Daniel 9:24-27),--the events limited by these times were all once only a matter of prophecy, and were fulfilled in accordance with the predictions."--Bliss, pages 74, 75.
{GC 323.2}
When, therefore, he found, in his study of the Bible, various chronological periods [acording to the quote above these were the 2300 prophetic days, the seven times and the 1335 prophetic days] that, according to his understanding of them, extended to the second coming of Christ, he could not but regard them as the "times before appointed," which God had revealed unto His servants. "The secret things," says Moses, "belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children forever;" and the Lord declares by the prophet Amos, that He "will do nothing, but He revealeth His secret unto His servants the prophets." Deuteronomy 29:29; Amos 3:7. The students of God's word may, then, confidently expect to find the most stupendous event to take place in human history clearly pointed out in the Scriptures of truth. {GC 324.1}

Then those in the new organization are saying Ellen white never mentioned the seven times of Nebuchadnezzar, and the seven years of Pharaoh whilst there are there in the GC, why?

Aluno who said anything about The 7 times of Nebudchanezzar or 7 years of Pharoh? We are talking about the 2520, the 7 times of Lev. 26.

Lisa, remember that the 2520 movement sees 2520 anywhere 7 times is mentioned. They even see it in the handwriting on the wall!

I think he was baiting me anyway. I wasn't going to play into his hands.

Abdool, How do you explain it NOT being there when I can see it and demonstrate it as clear as day?

Belshazzar’s 2520 is an Analogue to Israel’s 2520

Daniel 5:18-30 O thou king, the most high God gave Nebuchadnezzar thy [grand] father a kingdom, and majesty, and glory, and honour: (19) And for the majesty that he gave him, all people, nations, and languages, trembled and feared before him: whom he would he slew; and whom he would he kept alive; and whom he would he set up; and whom he would he put down. (20) But when his heart was lifted up, and his mind hardened in pride, he was deposed from his kingly throne, and they took his glory from him: (21) And he was driven from the sons of men; and his heart was made like the beasts, and his dwelling was with the wild asses: they fed him with grass like oxen, and his body was wet with the dew of heaven; till he knew that the most high God ruled in the kingdom of men, and that he appointeth over it whomsoever he will. (22) And thou his son, O Belshazzar, hast not humbled thine heart, though thou knewest all this; (23) But hast lifted up thyself against the Lord of heaven; and they have brought the vessels of his house before thee, and thou, and thy lords, thy wives, and thy concubines, have drunk wine in them; and thou hast praised the gods of silver, and gold, of brass, iron, wood, and stone, which see not, nor hear, nor know: and the God in whose hand thy breath is, and whose are all thy ways, hast thou not glorified: (24) Then was the part of the hand sent from him; and this writing was written. (25) And this is the writing that was written, MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN. (26) This is the interpretation of the thing: MENE; God hath numbered thy kingdom, and finished it. (27) TEKEL; Thou art weighed in the balances, and art found wanting. (28) PERES; Thy kingdom is divided, and given to the Medes and Persians. (29) Then commanded Belshazzar, and they clothed Daniel with scarlet, and put a chain of gold about his neck, and made a proclamation concerning him, that he should be the third ruler in the kingdom. (30) In that night was Belshazzar the king of the Chaldeans slain.

מנא (Aramaic)
BDB Definition:
1) (Peal) mina, maneh
1a) a weight or measurement; usually 50 shekels but maybe 60 shekels
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: passive participle of H4483
Same Word by TWOT Number: 2835a

תּקל (Aramaic)
BDB Definition:
1) to weigh (verb)
1a) (Peil) to be weighed
2) tekel, shekel (noun masculine)
2a) (Peal) tekel - a unit of weight, shekel
Part of Speech: see above in Definition
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: corresponding to H8254
Same Word by TWOT Number: 3063, 3063a

פּרס (Aramaic)
BDB Definition:
1) (Peal) to break in two, divide (verb)
2) half-mina, half-shekel (noun masculine)
2a) a unit of measure and weight
Part of Speech: see above in Definition
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: corresponding to H6536
Same Word by TWOT Number: 2945

From Wiki

A gerah Hebrew "גרה" is an ancient Hebrew unit of weight and currency. One gerah is one-twentieth of a shekel. A shekel being 180 barleycorns or 60 carob divided by 20 = 3 carob. This is 0.568 grams. A gerah is in Aramaic a ma'ah "מעה" (pl. ma'ot "מעות" which means "money"). It was originally a fifth of a Denarius/Zuz as seen in Exodus ("20 gerah is a shekel"), then became a sixth of a denar/Zuz, such as the Yehud coins which came in two denominations, approximately .58 gram as a ma'ah and approximately .29 gram as a half ma'ah (chatzi ma'ah), and (.58 X 6 = 3.48) which is about the weight of a Zuz/Denarius based on a 14 gram Shekel.
The Jerusalem Talmud Shekalim in the Mishnah, debates if a "kalbon" which was added when giving annually a half shekel to the Temple in Jerusalem, if it was a "ma'ah" or a "chatzi ma'ah" (half ma'ah).
Mene 50 Shekels = 1000 Gerah
Mene 50 Shekels = 1000 Gerah
Tekel 1 Shekel = 20 Gerah
Peres 1/2 Mina = 500 Gerah
== 2520 gerah's

The ten northern tribes were scattered never to be gathered. Israel's 2520 is the scattering 2520.

Lev 27:25 And all thy estimations shall be according to the shekel of the sanctuary: twenty gerahs shall be the shekel.

It is interesting to note that 2520 proponents use the original language to try to prove their points but when shown that the foundation of their error which is based upon Leviticus 26 is faulty when the Hebrew is used, as James White did, they reject it.

Truth is found in the original language and must be consulted when there is a dispute in other languages (translations).

I do not think that this is an accurate depiction. First, I read Hebrew. I have answered that mistake that James White (who didn't read Hebrew) makes regarding the Hebrew in Leviticus 26. Miller's arguments, however were based upon the context of Leviticus 26 (not the original language). It is suggested that if you are going to refute Miller's arguments you must first understand what they are.


Site Sponsors


Adventist Single?
Meet other Single
Adventists here:
Join Free

USA members:

Support AO by
using this link:


© 2021   Created by Clark P.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service