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I have been looking at supposed SDA online sites. Unfortunately I am getting more and more confused with who is I find this guy teaching a 2520 prophecy..and all accounts he is an SDA layman.

How many more are amongst us? Do you ever think you are reading an SDA site when in fact it's not of our teaching?


A Review of Jeff Pippenger’s teachings - Norman McNulty, M.D.



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Brother Theodore you are 100% on the reckoning of time, I have been searching for the pen of Inspiration to see whether I can Find where there is written an Issue about the commencement of the dates to be proved Wrong, I didn’t came across any!

So this we have to be AWARE of because it is another Issue which will make us dig the bones and we can leave the creation to Evolution, because what the Holy Spirit approved to be correct is Still correct To-day, this is what the pen of Inspiration is saying to us ALL:



     Our calculation of the prophetic time was so simple and plain that even children could understand it. From the date of the decree of the king of Persia, found in Ezra 7, which was given in 457 before Christ, the 2300 years of Daniel 8:14 were supposed to terminate with 1843. Accordingly we looked to the end of this year for the coming of the Lord. We were sadly disappointed when the year entirely passed away, and the Saviour had not come. {CET 49.2} 

 It was not at first perceived that if the decree did not go forth at the beginning of the year 457 B. C., the 2300 years would not be completed at the close of 1843. But it was ascertained that the decree was given near the close of the year 457 B. C., and therefore the prophetic period must reach to the fall of the year 1844. Therefore the vision of time did not tarry, though it had seemed to do so. We learned to rest upon the language of the prophet: "The vision is yet for an appointed time, but at the end it shall speak, and not lie: though it tarry, wait for it; because it will surely come, it will not tarry." Habakkuk 2:3. {CET 50.1}  

If we are not to learn this Learning to rest upon the language of the Prophet we will come up with ERROR thinking it to be truth.

     God tested and proved His people by the passing of the time in 1843.(it was a test caused by God Himself then we are in need of taking advantages of that we are making God a LIAR)    The mistake made in reckoning the prophetic periods was not at once discovered, even by learned men who opposed the views of those who were looking for Christ's coming. Scholars declared that Mr. Miller was right in his calculation of the time, though they disputed him in regard to the event that would crown that period. But they, and the waiting people of God, were in a common error on the question of time. {CET 50.2}    

The Issue was not of the time reckoning but it was of the event which took place at the end of the time prophetic periods, so Today we are doing the opposite, We are arguing of time reckoning but it was clarified by the Lord himself, what a Mess.

     Those who had been disappointed were not long left in darkness; for in searching the prophetic periods with earnest prayer the error was discovered, and the tracing of the prophetic pencil down through the tarrying time. In the joyful expectation of the coming of Christ, the apparent tarrying of the vision had not been taken into account, and was a sad and unlooked-for surprise. Yet this very trial was necessary to develop and strengthen the sincere believers in the truth. {CET 50.3} 

This is another quote I know you are to ignore it!!

   God tested and proved his people by the passing of the time in 1843. The mistake made in reckoning the prophetic periods was not at once discovered even by learned men who opposed the views of those who were looking for Christ's coming. These profound scholars declared that Mr. Miller was right in his calculation of the time, though they disputed him in regard to the event that would crown that period. But they, with the waiting people of God, were in a common error on the question of time.  {ST, March 30, 1876 par. 3} 

     We fully believe that God, in his wisdom, designed that his people should meet with a disappointment, which was well calculated to reveal hearts and develop the true characters of those who had professed to look for and rejoice in the coming of the Lord. Those who embraced the first angel's message (See Revelation 14:6, 7) through fear of the wrath of God's judgments, not because they loved the truth and desired an inheritance in the kingdom of Heaven, now appeared in their true light. They were among the first to ridicule the disappointed ones who sincerely longed for and loved the appearing of Jesus. This most searching test of God revealed the true characters of those who would shirk responsibility and stigma by denying their faith in the hour of trial.  {ST, March 30, 1876 par. 4}

Well what else: If Miller was mistaken on that why did God shew Ellen White that he is going to be resurrected at the sound of the last trump.

God suffered him to fall under the power of Satan, the dominion of death, and hid him in the grave from those who were constantly drawing him from the truth. Moses erred as he was about to enter the Promised Land. So also, I saw that William Miller erred as he was soon to enter the heavenly Canaan, in suffering his influence to go against the truth. Others led him to this; others must account for it. But angels watch the precious dust of this servant of God, and he will come forth at the sound of the last trump. {EW 258.2}

 So Brother Abdool God is going to allow Liars to his Holy City, because Miller lied saying that Manasseh was in Captive in the year 677, and the Investigative Judgment in Heaven did not check it, WHY was Ellen shown Miller coming forth at the last trump?

1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Isn't it interesting how freely, clearly and simply she speaks of the beginning date of 457 and the 2300 day prophecy but nothing at all about the 2520. But the line drawn for the prophecies should be so simple a child should understand! Thank you for sharing Aluno!!

We believe that Sister White (by God's providence) hid the 2520 for a reason. It is a gift to the SDA church at this time. Do not carelessly spurn God's gift. I suggest that you prayerfully and carefully study it out for yourself. Read Miller. Read and study all you can. Ask God to reveal the truth to you. Do not trust in men. 

Sister White did not hide the 2520! She rejected it!

I have noticed something very interesting throughout all these conversations!  Those who continue to hold to the 2520 have to put a lot of words into EGW's mouth to explain what they think she is trying to say or actually meant in certain quotes.  It seems like a lot of guesswork going on.

Simply take her statements as they read.  Theodore did that with the true meaning of the quote from GC p.351. That quote is specifically talking about one prophecy with two parts, but yet you insist it's the 2520!   You are adding things that are not there.  There is a lot of fancy footwork with you guys trying to explain this stuff.  It is pretty dangerous to suppose what you think the prophet is saying instead of just reading it clearly for what it really does say or reading the whole quote in context.

The charts were later altered by the 1863 chart and Inspiration let it be altered.  That is the only way the charts could be altered.  Sister White endorsed her husbands teachings.  She stood by him!  Just accept that you are following a doctrine that was put away as false!

Thank you for your Imagination Lisa then If James White was Coreect why are you still holding on the Trinity?

As fundamental errors, we might class with this counterfeit sabbath other errors which Protestants have brought away from the Catholic church, such as sprinkling for baptism, the trinity, the consciousness of the dead and eternal life in misery. The mass who have held these fundamental errors, have doubtless done it ignorantly; but can it be supposed that the church of Christ will carry along with her these errors till the judgment scenes burst upon the world? We think not. "Here are they [in the period of a message given just before the Son of man takes his place upon the white cloud, Rev.xiv,14] that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus." This class, who live just prior to the second advent, will not be keeping the traditions of men, neither will they be holding fundamental errors relative to the plan of salvation through Jesus Christ. And as the true light shines out upon these subjects, and is rejected by the mass, then condemnation will come upon them. When the true Sabbath is set before men, and the claims of the fourth commandment are urged upon them, and they reject this holy institution of the God of heaven, and choose in its place an institution of the beast, it can then be said, in the fullest sense, that such worship the beast. The warning message of the third angel is given in reference to that period, when the mark of the beast will be received, instead of the seal of the living God. Solemn dreadful, swiftly-approaching hour! {September 12, 1854 JWe, ARSH 36.7}

All the way from where we started you don't answer questions you just Criticize, where did Ellen said the Lord told her that Her Husband was to make another Chart?

That is the Inspiration which corrected the mistake of the 1843 Chart on the 1850 chart, again Why do you still hold on to the Trinity, whilst James White said it is a Fundamental ERROR?

Obert I hold to exactly what I said in my previous comments!  If you want to accuse me of criticizing then that's okay.  I just speak the truth!  James White was solid in the message in 1863 and so were all the others who helped him with the chart, including his wife!

As far as James White and the Trinity doctrine, I will admit that I am not studied in that area of what he believed on the Trinity.  Though it seems that you are implying that I shouldn't believe the 1863 chart because he was wrong on the Trinity doctrine?  Using your own reasoning in this matter, then you will have to throw away everything you hold from William Miller because he was wrong on a lot of things!  Again, this is your reasoning not mine!

Lisa, the point is that Sister White's 'silence' upon a subject can be used neither for or against the 2520. We believe that this truth was hidden for a reason. The neglect of the church, and the discarding of it, was providential. Sister White was not silent, however, but discrete. Here is my response to James White.

 The Seven Times of Lev. Xxvi [And A Brief Response in Brackets]

> The prophetic period of Lev. xxvi, or what has been supposed to be such, has been no small object of study among prophetical expositors. It has been supposed that the expression, "seven times," in verses 18, 21, 24, 28, denoted a prophetic period of 2520 years, and that this period covered the time during which the throne of Israel should be and remain subverted and trodden down by oppressing powers. To rightly fix the commencement and termination of this period, became therefore a matter of consequence. Where does it commence? and where does it end? have been questions of much study, and perhaps some perplexity. {January 26, 1864 JWe, ARSH 68.1}

> These are not the questions, however, that we propose here to discuss; for there is a question lying back of these, which demands to be answered first; namely, Is there any prophetic period brought to view at all in Lev. xxvi? We claim that there is not, and will offer a few of what are to us very conclusive reasons for this position: {January 26, 1864 JWe, ARSH 68.2}

> 1. A series of judgments is threatened against Israel, in case they hearkened not unto God to do his commandments, before the expression, seven times, is introduced. Verses 14-17. In these judgments is included being slain before their enemies, being reigned over by those that hated them, and fleeing when none pursued them. Now if the seven times were meant to cover the period of God's special judgments against Israel, especially of their captivity by foreign powers, these seven times should have been mentioned in connection with the first threatening of judgments of this kind. But this, as we have seen, is not the case. {January 26, 1864 JWe, ARSH 68.3}

[James White has made a mistake here and a fatal one to his argument. ALL of the consequences that are mentioned in verses 14-17 are the mirror of the blessing mention in the first 13 verses. Here is set up a prophetic mirror. Israel failed to keep the Sabbatical cycles due to their having a king. The 70 years captivity was one of the consequences that they incurred due to their disobedience. But that it not all. God was not just concerned with seeing them suffer the consequences of their actions but he wished to reform them. the 2520 includes the entire plan of salvation, God's plan of restoration from sin.]

> 2. After the threatening of these judgments, God says, verse 18, "And if ye will not for all this hearken unto me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins." Then follows an enumeration of the judgments to come upon them in fulfillment of this, different from the items of the first threatening, and increasing in severity. {January 26, 1864 JWe, ARSH 68.4}

[He is partially right here. These judgements are different. The first mentioned is the 'breaking of the pride of your power' or the kingship. All the next images are used in Nebuchadnezzar's 'seven times' in Daniel 4. The significance of the kingship being 'broken' is important in tying this to Isaiah 7:8,9, the prophecy that gives the starting date for both 2520s.]

> 3. If they would not for this hearken, seven times more plagues were threatened against them, "according to their sins." Verse 21. Then again follows an enumeration of judgments to correspond, more severe still than any preceding. {January 26, 1864 JWe, ARSH 68.5}

[That all of the actions on God's part to reform Israel and Judah were not to fall at once is a demonstration of God's mercy and patience. I do have difficulty seeing these as 'seven times more severe'. There is a progression of chastisement that occurs over a period of time. When is it to end? We recognise a conditional nature to these reformatory acts upon God's part regarding His need to continue them but we do see a period (however indefinite) must ensue.]

> 4. If they would not be reformed by these things, God threatened to punish them seven times more for their sins. Verse 24. And in like manner with the foregoing, an enumeration of the judgments to be inflicted in fulfillment, immediately follows, more fearful still. {January 26, 1864 JWe, ARSH 68.6}

[More fearful? I would be scared to death of these ten women, I guess. But seriously, how is pestilence more fearful than what has followed? What is the fulfilment of this section of the prophecy? this describes to me the influence of Babylonish thought and false religion that influenced Jewish thought in the Babylonian period. God gave them over to strong delusion.]

> 5. And if they would not hearken to God for all these things, he makes a final threat that would walk contrary to them in fury, and chastise them seven times for their sins. Verse 28. And an enumeration of the judgments to be inflicted, again immediately follows, outdoing all before, in their terrible severity. Included among them were the eating of the flesh of their sons and daughters, making waste their cities, bringing the land into such desolation that their enemies should be astonished at it, scattering them among all nations, and drawing out a sword after them in all the lands of their dispersion. With fearful minuteness all this has been fulfilled, even to the eating the flesh of their own children, as in the terrible sieges that preceded the downfall of Jerusalem. {January 26, 1864 JWe, ARSH 68.7}

[This part of the prophecy he interprets correctly. Each of these chastisement differ in nature. It is not more of the same thing. These things occurred near the beginning of the 2520 period and continued in various form until the end of this period. They changed from literal to spiritual Israel (70 weeks) but they continued to reform God's people.]

> Thus we have, first, a series of judgments threatened against Israel, without the expression, seven times, and then the declaration four times made, that God would punish them seven times for their sins, each one on condition that the former did not lead to repentance, and each one containing its own specific enumeration of judgments, distinct from those that preceded, and regularly increasing in the severity of then denunciations. Now what is meant by this repeated expression of seven times? We reply, It denotes, not the duration of the punishment, but its intensity and severity. It is well expressed in the language of verse 21, thus: "I will bring seven times more plagues upon you according to your sins." The number seven denoting perfection, we are undoubtedly to understand by this expression, the fullness of their punishment; that the measure of their national sins, would in every case be fully equalled by the measure of their national calamities. {January 26, 1864 JWe, ARSH 68.8}

[None of these are arguments against the 2520 being a duration, however.]

> And this position is fully sustained by the original, as a brief criticism will show. {January 26, 1864 JWe, ARSH 68.9}

> In references to the Hebrew, we learn from the Hebrew Concordance that the expression, seven times, in Lev. xxvi, comes from sheh-vag; and this word is expressly set down by Gesenius, in those texts, as an adverb, also in Ps. cxix, 164; Prov. xxiv, 16. In Dan. iv, 16, 25, the expression, seven times, twice occurs, where beyond question it means duration. Nebuchadnezzar was to be driven from men, and make his dwelling with the beasts of the field, until seven times should pass over him. There can be no mistaking that here the expression means a certain space of time; but here we find, not the adverb as in Lev. xxvi, but the noun, gid-dahn, defined by Gesenius, "Time, in prophetic language, for a year." In Dan. vii, 25, where a prophetic period is brought to view in the expression, "a time and times and the dividing of time," the same word is used. In Dan. xii, 7, where the same period is again brought to view, and in about the same language, we have another word, moh-gehd, defined by Gesenius, "Appointment of time. Spoken of a space of time, appointed and definite. In the prophetic style for a year." It will be seen by this definition, that this word is synonymous with the one used in Dan. vii, 25, as above referred to. Now if a period of time is meant by the expression, seven times, in Lev. xxvi, one of these words should and would most assuredly have been used. And the fact that neither of these words is there used, but another word, and that an adverb, places it beyond question that no such period is there intended. {January 26, 1864 JWe, ARSH 68.10}

[James White arguments for 'seven times' being adverbial, I find no support for in the Hebrew. Many cling to this argument without knowing the Hebrew. None of the proper words are in the sentence to cause 'sheba' to be adverbial. William Miller did not base his argument on the word 'times' but upon the context of the sabbatical cycle. The use of the word 'sheba' in Levitcus 26 is unusual. There is nothing there for it to modify but that does not make it adverbial. There are other options that are supported by the context. One is that it is a symbol. Just as the 2300 evening mornings; the seventy weeks; the 1260; 1335 and 1290 days are written in an unusual way to draw their attention to their symbolic nature, so too are the 'seven times'.]

> The Greek is equally definite. The Septuagint has in Lev. xxvi, heptakis, which is an adverb, signifying seven times. In Dan. iv, 16, 25, for Nebuchadnezzar's seven times we have not heptakis, the adverb, but heptakairoi, a noun and its adjective. And in all cases where the word time occurs, denoting a prophetic period, as in Dan. vii, 25; xii, 7; Rev. xii, 14, it is from the noun kairos. Such a thing as a prophetic period based on an adverb is not to be found. {January 26, 1864 JWe, ARSH 68.11}


 [His appeal to the LXX is immaterial. They were merely translators and have no Biblical authority. He does not establish that the Hebrew is an adverb because it is not.]

> So then, there is no prophetic period in Lev. xxvi; and those who imagine that such a thing exists, and are puzzling themselves over the adjustment of its several dates, are simply beating the air. To ignore, or treat with neglect, a prophetic period where one is plainly given, is censurable in the extreme. It is an equally futile, though not so heinous, a course, to endeavor to create one where none exists. {January 26, 1864 JWe, ARSH 68.12}

[This type of rhetoric does not impress me and speaks to the weakness of his argument. It is true that those who were using the 2520 for time setting proposes were 'beating the air' but so are those who oppose our interpretation of the 2520 without even knowing what our position is.]

Very Sorry Lisa, If I am wrong with the 2520 you are wrong with the Trinity all information from James White, Thank You.

In 1848 the prophet received a vision from God that the sealing message was to be printed and published.

  After coming out of vision, I said to my husband: "I have a message for you. You must begin to print a little paper and send it out to the people. Let it be small at first; but as the people read, they will send you means with which to print, and it will be a success from the first. From this small beginning it was shown to me to be like streams of light that went clear round the world."  {LS 125.2} 
     While we were in Connecticut in the summer of 1849, my husband was deeply impressed that the time had come for him to write and publish the present truth. He was greatly encouraged and blessed as he decided to do this. But again he would be in doubt and perplexity, as he was penniless. There were those who had means, but they chose to keep it. He at length gave up in discouragement, and decided to look for a field of grass to mow.  {LS 125.3} 

The Advent Reveiw and Sabbath Herald Vol.1 #1
Our minds were directed to that point of time, from the fact that dating the several prophetic periods from those years in which the best chronologers assign the fulfilment of those events which were to mark their commencement, they all seemed to terminate that year. This was, however, only apparent. We date the "seven times" or 2520 years, from the captivity of Manasseh, which is, with great unanimity, placed by chronologers B. C. 677. This date is the only one we have ever reckoned from, for the commencement of this period; and subtracting B. C. 677 from 2520 years, there remained but A. D. 1843. We, however, did not observe, that as it would require 677 full years B. C. and 1843 full years A. D. to complete 2520 years, that it would also oblige us to extend this period as far into A. D. 1844, as it might have commenced after the beginning of B. C. 677. The same was also true of the other periods. The great jubilee of 2450 years, commencing with the captivity of Jehoiakim B. C. 607; and the 2300 days, commencing with the 70 weeks B. C. 457, would respectively require 1843 full years after Christ added to as many full years before Christ, as the years in which we have always respectively commenced each period, to complete the number of years in each; and as subtracting from each period the date B. C. of its commencement, there would remain A. D. 1843, no reference whatever was made to the fraction of the year, which, in each case, had transpired from its commencement, and which would require that each period should extend as much beyond the expiration of A. D. 1843, as they respectively began after the commencement of the year B. C. from which they are dated. {August 1850 JWe, ADRE

"The Kingdom of Babylon, proper, or as we read of it in scripture, dates from B.C. 747; but yet it dates in prophecy from B.C. 677. The reason of this is, because kingdoms are not recognized in the prophetic prophecy, kingdoms must date from that point of time at which they began to act a part in the prophetic drama. Babylon first became connected with the people of God by taking Manasseh, king of Judah, captive, B.C. 677. 2 Chron. xxxii. The date of Babylon, therefore, as represented by the head of gold, is B.C. 677." Key to the Prophetic Chart by Uriah Smith, 1863.


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