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I have been looking at supposed SDA online sites. Unfortunately I am getting more and more confused with who is who..now I find this guy teaching a 2520 prophecy..and yep..by all accounts he is an SDA layman.

How many more are amongst us? Do you ever think you are reading an SDA site when in fact it's not of our teaching?

 

A Review of Jeff Pippenger’s teachings - Norman McNulty, M.D.

 

 

*** Adventist Online Admin Note ***
Since this discussion is the top search result on Google for the term "Jeff Pippenger", we have seen a 'round up the troops' movement of Pippenger supporters.  They come here to defend beliefs which the Seventh-day Adventist Church has found to be baseless.  Beliefs which have lead these same supporters of Jeff Pippenger to leave the Seventh-day Adventist Church.  This is a web site for Seventh-day Adventists by Seventh-day Adventists.  Each new member must answer "Yes" to the following question to create a profile here:  "Do you agree to uphold the principles and beliefs of the Seventh-day Adventist church in your conduct on this site and follow the Site Rules & Guidelines?"

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Thus according to your saying, like what I SAID!

1907 Walla Walla college with the 1843 chart (EW.74) proclaiming the 2520 time prophecy on it. I will let our pioneer brother elder James White speak from his very first publication

Our minds were directed to that point of time, from the fact that dating the several prophetic periods from those years in which the best chronologers assign the fulfilment of those events which were to mark their commencement, they all seemed to terminate that year. This was, however, only apparent. We date the "seven times" or 2520 years, from the captivity of Manasseh, which is, with great unanimity, placed by chronologers B. C. 677. This date is the only one we have ever reckoned from, for the commencement of this period; and subtracting B. C. 677 from 2520 years, there remained but A. D. 1843. We, however, did not observe, that as it would require 677 full years B. C. and 1843 full years A. D. to complete 2520 years, that it would also oblige us to extend this period as far into A. D. 1844, as it might have commenced after the beginning of B. C. 677. The same was also true of the other periods. The great jubilee of 2450 years, commencing with the captivity of Jehoiakim B. C. 607; and the 2300 days, commencing with the 70 weeks B. C. 457, would respectively require 1843 full years after Christ added to as many full years before Christ, as the years in which we have always respectively commenced each period, to complete the number of years in each; and as subtracting from each period the date B. C. of its commencement, there would remain A. D. 1843, no reference whatever was made to the fraction of the year, which, in each case, had transpired from its commencement, and which would require that each period should extend as much beyond the expiration of A. D. 1843, as they respectively began after the commencement of the year B. C. from which they are dated. {December 1850 JWe, ARSH 13.20}

1907 Walla Walla college.

hi,

Loughborough was not  teaching from the 1843 chart in 1907. He was lecturing to students concerning the rise of the Advent movement and he simply told them of the chart that was used leading up to the 1844 disappointment. By 1907, the 1843 chart was long outdated and the believers were using the 1863 chart. The 1863 chart was approved by the Seventh-day Adventist church!

Where is the 1863 chart in that photo? A picture speaks a thousand words. You say the 1843 chart "was long outdated by 1907, but Eccl. 1:14 says different. 

EW. 74.1    I have seen that the 1843 chart was directed by the hand of the Lord...

Abdool, Making up things doesn't make them true. Where is your documentation for such a statement?

One should be very careful making accusations about other posters.

Please read the North Pacific Union Gleaner of 1st January 1908. There you will find a report of Eld. Loughborough's meetings at Walla Walla. From the article:

"For sometime there has been a feeling; among many in our Union Conference that they would like to have Elder Loughborough visit this part of the country, spending a few days at important centers, giving a few lectures on the rise of this Advent Movement, and his connection with the same. It has also been greatly desired that he should state to our brethren and sisters his experience with Sister White and her work all through the years of his long ministry...

Here Elder Loughborough spent one week, speaking every night and also giving two- or three day lectures to the students, all of which were greatly appreciated by the large crowds that gathered to hear him. Here he took up a connected line of study along the line of the Spirit of Prophecy, the rise of this message, the apostasies that have arisen among us, and what has become of these movements, and also the sacrifices that the early pioneers were called upon to pass through in the early stages of our work. These meetings were held in the college chapel, and every night the chapel was filled to hear these discourses. Elder Loughborough had with him an old chart that was used in the 1844 movement. It was somewhat dim by age,although the symbols upon it could be easily seen across the chapel. This chart, though about 63 years old, is in a good state of preservation."

The 1843 chart was not in use at that time. Do you really think that SDAs were preaching the Gospel message in the 1900s using a chart that stated that Jesus Christ would return to this earth in 1843?

In 1908 Ellen White wrote to Eld. Haskell stating that he had made a mistake in reprinting the 1843 chart and that it should not be circulated (Letter 250, 1908). The 1843 chart was outdated and did not represent the beliefs of the SDAs. It had already been corrected in 1850 and again in 1863. Since that time many other charts had been produced - some that EGW approved of and some that she didn't.

Please, let us not throw logic away in regard to this matter. The 1843 chart had served it's purpose but as everyone agrees, it was replaced by the 1850 chart. Why, oh why, would SDAs be using an old chart when there were already two revisions? Even if they were, within a few months of Eld. Loughborough's presentations Ellen White was telling Eld. Haskell not to reprint and distribute the very same chart.

So, what we have here is a picture of Eld. Loughborough giving a lecture on the history of Adventism illustrating it by use of an old 1843 chart. No endorsement of the continued use of the chart and nothing to suggest that the chart was still in use.

The 1843 chart was directed by the hand of the LORD. The mistake that was corrected upon the 1850 chart was the end date. This was changed by inspiration. Abdool, was correct regarding the nature of the meeting. I do not believe, nor have I suggested, that the 1843 chart was used in evangelism. I do believe however that the current disparaging of the early Advent movement is not of God. The suggestion that the 1863 chart is a represents a progression of advancing truth is based upon the supposition that the Adventist understanding was not fully developed until AFTER 1863. Sister White is clear that the foundation to Adventism was laid in the Millerite movement and that the pillars were set up between 1844 and 1850. It is revisionist history to say that because the denomination was not officially formed until 1863 that views held prior to that time do not, or should not, represent the beliefs of the Seventh-day Adventist Church. My contention is that when I sang Habakkuk 2:1-4 for special music with my daughters, and held up the charts, Seventh-day Adventists were frightened. They had no idea what the charts were. This should not be. 

I wonder why those promoting 2520 among us, which not an accepted teaching of our denomination except some members alone, why you keep pushing this teaching on this site when the site admin asked this discussion to be tabled?

It shows lack of respect.

If you want to discuss, do so elsewhere please.  Those who know 2520 is error, please don't encourage these people...

Let's apply logic again...

As I have already pointed out throughout this thread there was more than just the 1843 date that was wrong on that chart. Similarly, there were problems with the 1850 chart as well. Do a simple comparison between the charts - the differences are obvious.

The SDA Church has had progressive revelation that continued after 1863. For a very clear example we can refer to the late 1880s-1890s when the Righteousness By Faith message was presented through the medium of Bro.s Jones and Waggoner. This was a message that brought balance to the SDA message and caused division in the church. However, it was endorsed by the Messenger of God. Whenever God has reformed His people he has reinforced the message through His spokesmen. As has been often repeated, Ellen White did not endorse "the 2520".

So, who revised the history of the church? In The Great Controversy Ellen White goes into great detail in regard to the importance of the Millerite movement yet does not even mention the so-called "2520". Neither does James White in his history of the movement. As has been pointed out before, if the "2520" is of such vital importance then there was the greatest failure ever on the part of a woman whom we claim to be God's Messenger as she never once refers to nor endorses it.

It makes me wonder at which point do we say that SDA doctrines were complete? If it was complete when Lev.26 was being preached as a time prophecy then we have to exclude the Sanctuary Doctrine and the seventh-day Sabbath from our teaching.

If it was complete when we accepted the Sanctuary doctrine, Saturday-Sabbath and that the Sabbath was from sunset to sunset then we must accept that by that time Lev.26 was on its way out at the very least. The disparaging of the early Advent Movement can just as easily be laid at the feet of those promoting the "2520" due to their elevation of that movement above and beyond what it actually was - and the misrepresentation of what was actually being taught. The foundation of our message is, as the Bible and Sis. White say, Jesus Christ. Jones and Waggoner brought the church back to that foundation, not "the 2520". As far as the Millerites were concerned, Josiah Litch says that "the foundation" of William Miller's theory was the 2,300 days' vision (Probability of the Second Coming... p.22). Miller says that the 2,300 years was "the longest time appointed" (Evidence and History... p.19)

Whichever way you look at it, the "2520", the 666 years of Papal supremacy, the physical return of Jesus Christ in 1843 were taught from the 1843 chart. You cannot, on the basis of the 1843 chart, insist that SDAs were wrong in rejecting the "2520" unless you insist that they were also wrong to reject the 666 years of Papal supremacy and the physical return of Jesus Christ in 1843.

How much more evidence does one require than to read Ellen White writing to Elder Haskell in regard to not resurrecting the old chart?

John B.

Where are you in the vision of the prophet?
I saw a company who stood well guarded and firm, giving no countenance to those who would unsettle the established faith of the body. God looked upon them with approbation. I was shown three steps-- the first, second, and third angels' messages. Said my accompanying angel, "Woe to him who shall move a block or stir a pin of these messages. The true understanding of these messages is of vital importance. The destiny of souls hangs upon the manner in which they are received." I was again brought down through these messages, and saw how dearly the people of God had purchased their experience. It had been obtained through much suffering and severe conflict. God had led them along step by step, until He had placed them upon a solid, immovable platform. I saw individuals approach the platform and examine the foundation. Some with rejoicing immediately stepped upon it. Others commenced to find fault with the foundation. They wished improvements made, and then the platform would be more perfect, and the people much happier. Some stepped off the platform to examine it and declared it to be laid wrong. But I saw that nearly all stood firm upon the platform and exhorted those who had stepped off to cease their complaints; for God was the Master Builder, and they were fighting against Him. They recounted the wonderful work of God, which had led them to the firm platform, and in union raised their eyes to heaven and with a loud voice glorified God. This affected some of those who had complained and left the platform, and they with humble look again stepped upon it. {EW 258.3}

All the messages given from 1840-1844 are to be made forcible now, for there are many people who have lost their bearings. The messages are to go to all the churches. {21MR 437.1}

Brother Mangar:

*** Adventist Online Admin Note ***
Since this discussion is the top search result on Google for the term "Jeff Pippenger", we have seen a 'round up the troops' movement of Pippenger supporters.  They come here to defend beliefs which the Seventh-day Adventist Church has found to be baseless.  Beliefs which have lead these same supporters of Jeff Pippenger to leave the Seventh-day Adventist Church.  This is a web site for Seventh-day Adventists by Seventh-day Adventists.  Each new member must answer "Yes" to the following question to create a profile here:  "Do you agree to uphold the principles and beliefs of the Seventh-day Adventist church in your conduct on this site and follow the Site Rules & Guidelines?"

Our Site Rules & Guidelines includes the following rule:

12. This is a site by Seventh-day Adventists for Seventh-day Adventists.  We welcome all seekers of God's truth here.  We believe that God will continue to reveal His truth to His people as time progresses.  Thus we are constantly seeking a better understanding of God and His word.  We welcome all that are doing the same. That said, if it becomes apparent that your purpose in being a member of this site is to promote a different agenda and/or sow discord among the brethren, your ability to interact with this site may be restricted.

We ask that all members uphold the pledge they made when joining this site.

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