Adventist Online

Brethren,
I grieve inside me, and I am wondering why these things occur in the church.

  • Why is it we have no free Schools of Evangelism or Bible Schools? One is required to pay for everything, no free online courses!
  • Pastors preach and produce sermons, presentations on CDs and DVDs, all of them are on SALE.
  • SDA Schools are expensive benefiting very few SDAs save those kids from well to do families, why is this so?
  • Books are written in high quantities and yet a lot of them are on SALE. Spirit of Prophesy is on SALE, Bible on SALE, Sermons on SALE...


NB: The matter regarding EGW Software was settled and a free online database with Bible Commentaries can be easily accessed here

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Joseph,
Why haven't your own complaints led you to action? You could easily do what Clark or Travis are doing. But you want to "lobby" more. To me that sounds like just complaining to someone higher up in the organization.

If you see a need, fill it. Don't just complain about it and question "Are these Seventh-Day Adventists?". That kind of accusation against those that are visibly working to fill a need rubs many the wrong way. You are questioning the spirituality of many who have dedicated their lives to God's work.

What have you done to fill the need you are complaining about? Do you need any help?
Oh so now you want me to tell you I have done this and that? I am afraid, but I am not gonna inform ya and I don't need to, the Father who sees in heaven knows what I have done. All I can see in you is to keep the gospel behind without progress.

There's no justification for selling this material. It's still my stand on this issue period
Lobby the GC??? For what? They don't have the money to give all this stuff to you.

This whole thread is frustrating. It's full of people whining that someone else won't give them free stuff, that someone else is charging too much money, that someone else... you get the picture.

I'm so sick of people everywhere just putting out their hand for free stuff, complaining when then don't get exactly what they want, and then taking no personal responsibility to actually get things done.

If anyone wants more money for any outreach project... ask God to bless you with the means and step out in faith. START WORKING... START FUNDRAISING! Stop whining and complaining that others aren't doing their part.

Using the excuse that our conferences, schools, etc. aren't giving you freely what you want is only that, and excuse to do nothing. God will provide for every one of His children and support their outreach. But we must not create this list of things we require to spread His word. We don't need laptops and video projectors and CD programs. We need people on fire for God. That's all. God will provide the Bibles, books, picture rolls, slide projectors, laptops, and software as He sees fit. But we have to step out in faith. We must not do nothing is we think we don't have all the right equipment. We definitely shouldn't steal the supplies we think we need. How can God bless us when we do that?

So DO SOMETHING! At that point you can talk to your conference because they might actually see you as someone that is doing something for the Lord instead of just complaining that there's not free stuff. Don't you think that GYC would be consulted with much more than some whiner that has never done anything? Yes, they would.

We need to take action and step out in faith. God will bless our efforts and provide for our every need.

God bless
it's whining and doing nothing working 80 hours a week at two jobs? giving our all to tell others of
our Lord's return? doing many things for our church for free? that's what our family does. i'm not
a whiner. sent my children to elementary and academy church schools, it was VERY hard on us.
i see many others who wish their children could go, finances stop them from being able to do so.
don't preach about what you don't know about.
Sister Kim,
I would never call what you are doing "nothing". What you are doing is very, very difficult. You and I can both tell others that living in America does not make us rich or our lives easy. Nothing I said was directed at you or anyone who is doing what you are.

But the whole premise of this thread was that people that charge money are not "Adventists". That is nonsense. Particularly coming from the original poster who proudly steals and says there is nothing wrong with it. He has obviously not stepped out in faith. That type of behavior is what I am taking to task.

God bless,
Vince
To Vicenzo:

Let he who has never sinned cast the first stone. If you were learned enough, you would realize that this thread listed a lot of issues besides the software.

In your previous post you said "full of people" now you are singling out. It would be of much benefit if you step out and argue your points, for that's the whole point of a forum, people give their views. All you do read other people's views and you criticize them without giving your view which I would term as lack of information, uneducated and without zeal.

If you realize that many who gave their views here, argued with facts which they successfully defended but i have followed your posts and all you post is this so called "sick" concept which I term as vain talk.

I haven't seen any of posts building or edifying but just oozing out with venom tearing instead of building attacking the right instead defending.
May be you should take time to study the word and get the renewal you need than attacking other folks for forwarding their ideas. At least I can defend what I believe in, but I doubt if you can defend your cause.

Joseph
-I have taken a position that we need to have faith in God and move forward in faith.
-I have offered to assist you in your mission, if you have one.
-I have donated to many causes that move God's work forward, even Adventist Online.

You said: "At least I can defend what I believe in".

OK... Defend your stealing. Give us all the Scripture and SOP you can find.

Defend your questioning the spirituality of your brothers (causing discord among the brethren) because they do something (charge money) that you have not been able to show is wrong from either the scriptures or SOP.
Are you sure you read my previous posts especially those after the video "Tis So Sweet to Trust in Jesus?"

Because if you read them, you wouldn't be here asking me these questions. Please read...
I have read all that you have written. You have not presented a defense for stealing. You have not presented a defense for sowing discord among the brethren. A "defense" is presenting us with Scripture and SOP as your basis for the way you believe. It is not simply telling us you feel some particular action is right. So bring the quotes. You haven't defended anything yet. Having pet sins or wrong beliefs that you enjoy does not make them correct or scriptural. Rationalizing sin is not a defense. Again, bring us the quotes.
Bro. Vicenzo,
You better take time to study the Lord's word. Because from what I see all you know is to ask questions and no one is ready to do research for you like I pointed out on the other thread regarding elders.

If you think we are whining, have you done something?
As for me, I will do what the Lord will enable me to do, but to sit there in your comfort zone and start calling people whiners doesn't sound Adventist to me.

If you had done something and you were at the front line, you would understand the power of technology in advancing the gospel. If your parents had money to send you to good schools till college not all have had the benefit.

Do you know how many bright kids with bright brains of the order of Barack Obama, Seventh-Day Adventists from a poor family in NAD who can't afford college?
Have you moved the whole of NAD and found out that all SDA kids with good grades made it to college?

Sitting there and you start waving the highest order of mediocrity shows how you need to educate yourself in simple issues such as these.

Regards

Joseph
Joseph,
I believe you have a very good heart, love the Lord, and wish to see His return very soon. That is a very good thing.

That said, we have some very big things we disagree about. You want handouts - you want everything to be free. I think that we should all step out in faith and put in some effort... God will bless us with whatever we need to move His work forward. You have received so many handouts that you clearly don't even understand the monetary system and that products and services have real value (somewhat reflected by their price). You are now at a place in your life where you could be the giver of large amounts of money (based on the Masters degree that was donated to you because of others hard work) and yet you are still complaining that you can't get everything for free. I understand that nothing is free and I give freely of my money and time. I have been the receiver of many things that someone else paid for on my behalf. I am now donating and paying for many things for others that can't afford it. This is how it works. Those that can give do so. Those that need support (as I have) receive the benefit of this. We are extremely thankful for the things given to us. We don't act in an ungrateful manner and slap the face of those that have labored on our behalf and demand that they make everything free. We look for ways to give back.

You are telling me that I need to study God's word when you are in denial about stealing and continue to justify your actions? I think I know the basics, which is more than someone who says stealing is good if the end result is good. I am far from perfect. But I can admit when I am seriously wrong.

I'm not the one whining so I don't have to prove to you that I've done anything. You are whining, what have you done? Besides run ahead of God and have no faith that He can provide for your needs? Seriously, you don't need to steal stuff. God will provide.

Don't you understand? The compelling thing we have to share with the world is Jesus Christ. NOT some cool video that impresses the "peasants" as you call them. People the world over want peace and meaning in their lives. They need a Savior. We can show them that with the simplest of tools. Technology IS good. But not if you have to steal it. There are plenty of ways to spread the gospel without falling into Satan's trap.
Like I said Vicenzo your lack of getting the facts right is the point why you say things out of context.

OK I can put aside the software...Because it was meant for the leaders in the ministry.

Did I mention that I am gonna use the software for gospel outreach to those who have never heard of the gospel or the leaders of the ministry will use it within the fold?
Didn't I say that the rest where the gospel hasn't reached we'll use audio-visual equipment? Don't you know that ppt is the software I can use for the presentations?

The truth is that if you were in my class, I would give you extra coursework to always get facts right.

It would be utter lack of understanding for someone to reply to a post in the middle of it not knowing what is being said at the end, have you read the whole thread? You just jump onto a thread and keep on fixing as it fits you isn't so?
Did you read what I wrote towards the end of this thread?

Come on now, I thought you were learned enough and you wouldn't try to fix in what you want to say in the middle of the thread only to find out that the thread ended differently!

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