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Ellen White wrote:

" Whenever the people of God are growing in grace, they will be constantly obtaining a clearer understanding of His word.... But as real spiritual life declines, it has been the tendency to cease to advance in the knowledge of the truth. Men rest satisfied with the light already received from God's word, and discourage any further investigation of the Scriptures. They become conservative, and seek to avoid discussion.... Many now, as in ancient times.... will hold to Tradition, and worship they know what.... When God's people are at ease, and satisfied with their present enlightenment, we may be sure He will not favor them. ( CWE 38-41)

"Those who think that they will never have to give up a cherished view, and never have occasion to change an opinion, will be disappointed." (ibid. 37).

Even though we have always avoided Creedal Rigidity, do we live in reality as if our fundamental beliefs are a Creed?

How steeped  in TRADITION  are we, and how willing are we to let the Holy Spirit lead us to new understanding?

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Nice white estates...

I know that article and suffice to say it is wrong and old as even the studies they bring up to try to claim that she was right have been disproven by now and are decades old as is the statement.

What she wrote was medical consensus during her time. She didnt even write it herself as in she was basically using medical journals of her time repeating their statements and thats the story of it. These statements and assumptions of the 19th century are disproven and wrong and therefore what she wrote is wrong in this case as well.

Belief what you like but the notion that every single word EGW wrote about must be true is a futile one.

Hello Manuela

The process of suspending reason to fully believe in another human being is and always has been unhealthy. You are 100% correct about Ellen White's medical understanding and commentary. Her work was based on others, with none of it being original or novel. A healthy practice would be to accept what is true and reject what is harmful or erroneous. A persons who has decided that Ellen White is God, is unable to do this. To them Ellen White always speaks Ex Chatedra with the authority similar to the Pope. Ellen White is allowed to contradict scripture, and traditions have been built around her ministry that circumvent scripture. This is not the manner in which Christ wants Christians to relate to him.

He tells us everything over and over--one line at a time, one line at a time, a little here, and a little there!"

H. Leon Bryan Ed.D.



Just one question where in the bible does it say it is OK to masturbate? Or is it that you do not even read the bible? 

Hello Ian

I am not sure about the masturbation reference (unless you are referring to Ellen White's writings on the subject.)

Ellen White writings on masturbation were based not on revelation but on the medical/moral journals of her time. Following the Catholic tradition, many protestant groups sought to regulate the sexual urge. They emphatically condemned masturbation, and many even advocated for limited sexual contact even within marriage. Kellogg, and Adventist pioneer (until he became a pantheist,) claimed a celibate life even though he was married. He also sterilized children and bound their hands to keep them from self abuse (masturbation.)

I do read the bible which has but one reference to masturbation. When Onan refused to sleep with his brothers wife. "  Then Judah said to Onan, “Sleep with your brother’s wife and fulfill your duty to her as a brother-in-law to raise up offspring for your brother.” But Onan knew that the child would not be his; so whenever he slept with his brother’s wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from providing offspring for his brother. 10 What he did was wicked in the Lord’s sight; so the Lord put him to death also."

Thus, there is no direct condemnation for the act. However, the bible does speak against lustful desire and objectifying women. I realize that many men have and continue to masturbate so it is silly to think that it does not occur and it can be unhealthy. I would counsel men to pray over the matter and to cease from any action that interferes with their connection to Christ. This like many other issues is a individual matter for them to work out, and it is not the duty of any Church to attempt to regulate.



Wow you read your Bible but there is more I can tell you: 

Lev 15:16 And if any man's seed of copulation go out from him, then he shall wash all his flesh in water, and be unclean until the even. 17 And every garment, and every skin, whereon is the seed of copulation, shall be washed with water, and be unclean until the even.

If there is a need to wash there is a sin is there not 

Deu 23:14 For the LORD thy God walketh in the midst of thy camp, to deliver thee, and to give up thine enemies before thee; therefore shall thy camp be holy: that he see no unclean thing in thee, and turn away from thee.

So if the Lord sees it as unclean it must be a sin yes? 

Hello Ian

Your references to unclean have nothing to do with the sin of semen. Women were also unclean when they were menstruating. The issue of masturbation has to do with self pleasure or self abuse as Ellen White framed it. As I stated before this behavior should be self regulated according do one's guidance from the Holy Spirit. Historically, Churches have tried to regulate private sexual behavior, starting with the Universal Church (Catholicism,) and extending to the reformed churches. These attempts to regulate private sexual behavior proved disastrous. The early Adventist church did the same as did many other protestant religions. These practices were ceased as well as they should have been.


Yes Leon no worries I knew you would say that so there is no point in taking this any longer.


I am happy that we can agree to disagree. I just pray that you will read scripture unadulterated, rather than a sanitized version.



How in the world did this conversation ended on Masturbation? smh.

Self pleasure, isn't it  wrong for one to satisfy his/her own lustful desire?

Leon sanitized version meaning? 

Emmy you need to go back to where Manuela started this. How you see self pleasure depends on your understanding of what selfishness means I would guess. My understanding is that gratifying self is not in accordance with the will of God. 

I will agree that there is a degree of complacency in the church. I am an 3rd generation SDA adventist and I will attest to the fact that many things I do is very traditional and quite routine. Lately, i realized that i  have been so set in my ways that i became very repulsive when i am faced with a challenging situation that calls for change. 

With this said, i do believe that many of us are too set in our ways, as stated in the quote by EGW, we should be constantly obtaining a clearer understanding of the word of God. Now, in searching His word we must ask for guidance, and we must be of an open mind, because in His word we will find the light that will allow change to take place in our lives. Many of  us go through the word of God, however, when the word directs us to change we neglect it. 

This may sound harsh, but, in this Christian walk there is no space for stagnant people who do not want to grow or even change. And yes we have to let the Spirit lead.



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