Adventist Online

Ellen White wrote:

" Whenever the people of God are growing in grace, they will be constantly obtaining a clearer understanding of His word.... But as real spiritual life declines, it has been the tendency to cease to advance in the knowledge of the truth. Men rest satisfied with the light already received from God's word, and discourage any further investigation of the Scriptures. They become conservative, and seek to avoid discussion.... Many now, as in ancient times.... will hold to Tradition, and worship they know what.... When God's people are at ease, and satisfied with their present enlightenment, we may be sure He will not favor them. ( CWE 38-41)

"Those who think that they will never have to give up a cherished view, and never have occasion to change an opinion, will be disappointed." (ibid. 37).

Even though we have always avoided Creedal Rigidity, do we live in reality as if our fundamental beliefs are a Creed?

How steeped  in TRADITION  are we, and how willing are we to let the Holy Spirit lead us to new understanding?

Views: 562

Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

Manuela 

Today in SDA Church and especially here on AO quotes from EGW have higher authority than everything else. If you do not see that as a problem fine with me but it is still very very strange and against her own teachings. (And the most funniest part of all that is those who hold her in such high authority usually are the same which argue against WO because women should not hold authority... oh irony..)

Is that so I see a lot of quotes from the Bible. Do you also think I have a effigy of EGW here that I bow down to every day? Just because you do not like her writings does not mean everyone else can not read them. Perhaps there is a reason for that maybe they have another view than you?   

"Is that so I see a lot of quotes from the Bible. Do you also think I have a effigy of EGW here that I bow down to every day? Just because you do not like her writings does not mean everyone else can not read them. Perhaps there is a reason for that maybe they have another view than you?   "

How would you figure i do not like EGW writings?

I actually do the difference is i am able to recognize that not every single word she wrote was without error and that she was a women of her time. EGW was not infallible. If that statement means for you i do not like her writings than you are mistaken but so be it.

In regards to scripture or EGW i am fairly certain that the majority of quotes done here on AO come from EGW and not from scripture. I could be wrong but i doubt it to be honest and to put it bluntly i do not agree with it especially since her quotes are often taken out of its proper context but thats kind of the same more often than not with scripture sadly.

Regards

What get's me is that everyone constantly confuses Love with accepting or agreeing with someones choices regardless of what they are or where they lead.   I'm not a saint but I try to do and say what is right for whatever given situation.   Maybe my understanding of progressive is wrong but every time I hear it it seems to associate with the mind set you have to agree with someones choice in life or you have no love for them even if their choice as you know it is against God's will.

I don't hate anyone because of how they choose to live their life but that doesn't mean I have to accept or agree with it either.  I believe everyone deserves the right to live their life however they choose as long as they don't force others to support their decisions or have it taught to kids that aren't theirs like it's normal and ok.   it makes me feel even worse when they bring God into it to try to make themselves feel better about their choices.   If that doesn't make me "progressive" I'm cool with it.  But if by progressive you mean having my eyes opened to things I never understood about God's will before I'm open to that.

Rabbittroup -"But if by progressive you mean having my eyes opened to things I never understood about God's will before I'm open to that."

I think that describes Progressiveness well. To aspire towards seeing things and people the way God sees it. It is about putting all prejudices, bias preconceptions behind and allowing God to mould the thinking.

Hello Rabbittroup.

I agree we must hate the sin and love the sinner. We must also be able to recognize our own sins and be willing to make the necessary changes brought on by the Holy Spirit. We must be focused primarily on how we treat others developing the characteristics which promote Christian love (the character of God.) Progressive means we are open to change and reject religion based solely on Tradition. We seek to remove errors that hinder Christian growth, and to help those that are burdened by false belief.

Leon

Regarding the topic question of this forum, does ALL Adventist have to be either traditional or progressive ? 

Is there a preference available ?

Can it be a tick box choice made at Baptism ?

Can we allow things to naturally fall and develop within the landscape when it comes to tradition and progressive.

In my opinion progressive is a God control issue and traditional is a human control issue.(nice to haves)

Terminologies are often deceptive. Trying to push one in a particular group. How about stauch SDA Christian, following the lamb whithersoever he leads?? Whether its retaining some traditional views or embracing some progressive view...
Uhmmmm...
Mutinta.

Manuela 

I actually do the difference is i am able to recognize that not every single word she wrote was without error and that she was a women of her time. EGW was not infallible. If that statement means for you i do not like her writings than you are mistaken but so be it.

Congratulations on your position that makes you able to judge EGW being in error. God must have given you a most amazing gift indeed. I myself just have to trust that God gave her the light she needed to write her Books. But then again the Progressive do see them self as superior I know.   

"Congratulations on your position that makes you able to judge EGW being in error. God must have given you a most amazing gift indeed. I myself just have to trust that God gave her the light she needed to write her Books. But then again the Progressive do see them self as superior I know.   "

See thats something i will never understand. Why do i have to accept everything what EGW wrote, even the things which are clearly wrong? Why is it either take everything or nothing? Or even better why do i have to be better in your view than EGW to dismiss wrong statements?

I do not judge EGW or anything when i state that she was a women of her time and during that time period some things have been considered as being truth which have been disproven through the progress we made on various fields.

Just take as a prime example what EGW wrote about masturbation. During her time what she wrote was believed as truth and advocated in various medical journals. Today we know that this belief is wrong and flawed and there is nothing being "misinterpreted" or anything alike or otherwise to be possibly apologized. The belief and medical theories of that time which she wrote down as well was just wrong thats it.

So why do i have to take these wrong statements as truth today because EGW can not ever possibly be wrong on anything? Sorry but this is complete nonsense.

Stop this polarization and start to use your god given abilities and logic. 

And just for your information the main difference between a "progressive" and a "conservative" is not superiority as you imply it is simply time and not much else. Look back to this year in 20 years and look what "progressives" stated and than look what "conservatives" state in 2035 and you will most likely see very little difference in the statements. Look back in time what "progressives" of 1960s said and than look at the positions of "conservatives" today. You will be surprised.

Regards

Manuela 

Just take as a prime example what EGW wrote about masturbation. During her time what she wrote was believed as truth and advocated in various medical journals. Today we know that this belief is wrong and flawed and there is nothing being "misinterpreted" or anything alike or otherwise to be possibly apologized. The belief and medical theories of that time which she wrote down as well was just wrong thats it.

Well indeed you take my breath away I am amazed that you even could say something like this, I think one of us is out of tune with what is the will of God. Or is it that your mind is so depraved that you can not see what is right and what is wrong anymore. To me the things EGW has written on this subject is true and proper and in harmony with the Bible. If you do not see that your humanistic bent has robbed you of proper understanding of what the Bible says. Our Logic is not in tune with God's will most of the time. Because we are just sinful beings that needs to pray to God for understanding always.

  

"Well indeed you take my breath away I am amazed that you even could say something like this, I think one of us is out of tune with what is the will of God. Or is it that your mind is so depraved that you can not see what is right and what is wrong anymore. To me the things EGW has written on this subject is true and proper and in harmony with the Bible. If you do not see that your humanistic bent has robbed you of proper understanding of what the Bible says. Our Logic is not in tune with God's will most of the time. Because we are just sinful beings that needs to pray to God for understanding always."

You lost any sense of reality and sanity when you honestly believe what EGW wrote on the topic of masturbaton to be true.

She claimed, as was medical consensus of that time, that masturbation causes these illnesses:

headaches, dizziness, depression, irritability, insomnia, fatigue, guilt, absent-mindedness, forgetfulness, bodily pain, sullenness, rebelliousness and jealousy, imbecility, dwarfed forms, crippled limbs, misshapen heads, and deformity of every description.

On top of that in females she claimed this as well:

Catarrh, dropsy, headache, loss of memory and sight, great weakness in the back and loins, affections of the spine, insanity, brain tumor.

Now all this is no question of scripture. It is not a question whether you belief masturbation is sin or not. The question is does masturbation causes these diseases as claimed?

The answer to that question is: No it does not.

So the claims she wrote about can not be upheld in todays times as they have been disproven through medical advancements and science. This has nothing to do with "humanistic" as you once again claim (which is a silly statement in itself) but with simple medical science. 

So no she was not 100% correct on everything she wrote.

Belief what you want but when you claim that this is 100% accurate and correct what she wrote on that topic than you really very badly need a refreshment in biology 101 or belong in the 19th century. Given your other statements on various topic i am not so sure which would serve you better.

Regards

Ellen White did not say that all, or even most, of the potentially serious consequences of masturbation would happen to any one individual. Nor did she say that the worst possible degree of a serious consequence would happen to most indulgers.

Modern research indicates that Ellen White's strong statements can be supported when she is properly understood. The general view today, however, is that masturbation is normal and healthy.

Two medical specialists have suggested a link between masturbation and physical abnormalities due to zinc-deficiency. Dr. David Horrobin, an M.D. and Ph.D. from Oxford University, states:

"The amount of zinc in semen is such that one ejaculation may get rid of all the zinc that can be absorbed from the intestines in one day. This has a number of consequences. Unless the amount lost is replaced by an increased dietary intake, repeated ejaculation may lead to a real zinc deficiency with various problems developing, including impotence.

"It is even possible, given the importance of zinc for the brain, that 19th century moralists were correct when they said that repeated masturbation could make one mad!" [2]

More recent research has confirmed the critical role of zinc as a principal protector of the immune system, with a host of physical illnesses attributable to zinc-deficiency.

Two professionals in the area of clinical psychology and family therapy have compared Ellen White's statements on masturbation with current medical knowledge. [3] Dr. Richard Nies defended Ellen White's general counsel on masturbation, making four main points:

(1) Masturbation leads to "mental, moral, and physical deterioration. . . . It is not the stimulation, per se, that is wrong. It's what's going on in . . . [persons] when they're becoming self-referenced and self-centered."

(2) Masturbation "breaks down the finer sensitivities of our nervous system. . . . It is not difficult to see in terms of the electrical mediation of our nervous system, how disease becomes a natural result of individuals who have placed their own gratification at the center of their being. . . . Disease is the natural result of this."

(3) Masturbation is a predisposition that can be "inherited and passed on and transmitted from one generation to another, even leading to degeneration of the race."

(4) In dealing with others, especially children, Ellen White's counsel lies in the direction of dealing with the consequences, of showing them that we should be training for love and eternity, not self-gratification with its terrible consequences. Dr. Nies concluded his paper, "Self-gratification is synonymous with destruction."

Alberta Mazat observed that Ellen White's concern regarding masturbation was primarily on the mental consequences rather than the "purely physical act. She was more concerned with thought processes, attitudes, fantasies, etc." Mazat quoted Ellen White's references to the fact that "the effects are not the same on all minds," that "impure thoughts seize and control the imagination," and that the mind "takes pleasure in contemplating the scenes which awake base passion."

Mazat further noted that some may be embarrassed by Ellen White's strong statements regarding masturbation. However, many of Mrs. White's other statements also seemed "unrealistic and exaggerated before science corroborated them, for example, cancer being caused by a virus, the dangers of smoking, overeating, and the overuse of fats, sugar, and salt, to name a few. . . . It seems worthwhile to remind ourselves that medical knowledge at any point is not perfect." [4]

Looked at from another perspective, God always upholds the ideal for His people through His messengers. However one reacts to Ellen White's specific counsel, clearly masturbation was not what God had in mind when He created man and woman, united them in marriage, and then instructed them to be fruitful and multiply. God's ideal in regard to sexuality is the loving relationship that exists in marriage between husband and wife. Anything else, including masturbation, falls far short of God's ideal.

link

RSS

Site Sponsors

 

Adventist Single?
Meet other Single
Adventists here:
Join Free


USA members:

Support AO by
using this link:
Amazon.com

 

© 2019   Created by Clark P.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service