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A Pre flood Empire

Other than stressing humanity’s widespread evil, the Bible tells us very little about the culture of the world before Noah’s Flood. We are given a tiny glimpse of it when Genesis mentions the murderer and polygamist Lamech and his two wives, Adah and Zillah:

And Adah bore Jabal. He was the father of those who dwell in tents and have livestock. His brother’s name was Jubal. He was the father of all those who play the harp and flute. And as for Zillah, she also bore Tubal-Cain, an instructor of every craftsman in bronze and iron. (Genesis 4:20–22)

These verses show us that ancient man possessed the technological capabilities to make musical instruments and work with metals. But something else stands out in these verses. In a world that could have had millions of people by this time, why would the leaders of each of these industries come from the same family?

One possible solution is that these were the people living in Noah’s area who led these industries. But this idea seems to fall short since these individuals were said to be over “all those who play” and over “every craftsman.” Maybe this family possessed superior intellect or ingenuity, but this also seems unlikely given that man has been very intelligent from the beginning.

Perhaps Lamech ruled over much of the pre-Flood world, and he gave his sons control over these various industries. This idea would fit with his proud and boastful attitude (Genesis 4:23–24).

Without clear instruction from Scripture, we cannot know with certainty why one family was at the forefront of these industries. Yet we can be sure that their world was destroyed by the global Flood, and only those on Noah’s Ark were spared.

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Entertainment is a huge industry in the USA which deceives the world. Is this type what you are making reference to?

Interesting read Lazarus

Add amalgamation to this preflood list and GMO engineering

As we move toward the end of time, a time of trouble shall come upon us, such as never was since there a nation (Dan 12:1) . A video movie produced by Gary Null explains, we have entered into an era where God's Natural Foods are no longer available to us , and we have to increasingly eat these God Move Over foods (Null G, 2013). What we can expect from these Genetic Modified Organisms (GMO) many are forced to eat, is yet another sign we live with those destroying the earth (Rev11:18).

This may have happened once before by our modern counterpart genetic engineers before the flood, who did various genetic amalgamations to both humans, plants and animals. While Ellen White does not say this directly, her statement below is a profound one for genetics:

"The confused species which GOD did not create, which were the result of amalgamation, were destroyed by the flood. Since the flood there has been amalgamation of man and beast, as may be seen in the almost endless varieties of species of animals, and in certain races of men (White, EG 1870).”

Could it be that the term "amalgamation" penned all those years ago is in fact a reference to genetic engineering? Notice what the Bible also alludes to as well:

"Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed (Lev 19:19)"

Is this also a reference to genetic engineering of plants and animals across the various kinds, that God never intended human engineers to play around with life? Have we as humans reached the point where we are asking God to Move Over, so we can enjoy a new world order of prosperity eating GMO foods?


Indeed Rob 

Thanks for your reply you put your finger on many things that very well would have been happening in the  Antediluvian world. As you talk about genetic engineering we know there was some animals that was not allowed on the ark. EGW talks about amalgamation, why would that not mean genetic engineering?


Thanks for your reply Bart To tell the truth music and entertainment was not the fist thing on my mind when I posted the discussion. But your comment is indeed true and valid, why would they the Antediluvians not enjoy music and entertainment as much as we do in our day. As Jesus said in the day of Noah it will be in the last days. And Indeed we see a entertainment  Industry that is spured on by the Devil, we know the Devil was the one to lead God's heavenly choir. So it would not be a stretch to think something similar was going on in the Antediluvian world. Thanks for pointing to that Bart. 


I wonder whether some of these notes on Genesis 4 will complement the comments you've posted here.

Lamech and his family.

When considering the history of Lamech and his family, it is worth considering [I think,] that this family are of the line of Cain, and the two lines [Cain's line and Shem's line] are rapidly diverging.

“And Lamech took unto himself two wives”.

This is the first record, and probably the first instance, of polygamy. The charms that attracted Lamech to these women, seem to be represented in the names of the wives that he chose. Adah – “beauty”, and Zillah – “tinkling” (music and song).

In order to support his two wives, (and the prospect of a large family,) Lamech must have been quite a powerful person. (He certainly appears to have been an aggressive, domineering character, because it is not long before he tells his wives that he has killed a man. And Lamech's regard for himself is significant. He sees himself as far superior to his forebear, Cain, because if Cain would have been avenged seven fold [on anyone seeking revenge against him], then Lamech believes that he would be avenged [in the case of any retaliation,] seventy-seven fold. He thinks he is a much more "important" person.)

“And Adah [Lamech's first wife] bore Jabal: he was the father of such as dwell in tents, and of such as have cattle.” (4:20)

Short histories like this, call for a closer look. The coming of Jabal marks an important point in the development of the worldly spirit. The word translated “cattle” here (#4735,) is defined by Strong's as “something bought, that is, property, but only live stock”. It is not surprising then, to find another Bible version expressing it this way : “And Adah beareth Jabal, he hath been father of those inhabiting tents and [having] purchased possessions”. (Youngs Literal Translation.) The idea of personal property/possessions has now been fully realized. Prior to this, communities held [at least to some extent,] their property in common, but now men began to add herd to herd, flock to flock, (and before long, house to house,) and personal fortunes begin to be accumulated.

This was a significant way-mark in the history of mankind that sought to remove itself from the presence of God.

Thank you Stewart 

Yes good contribution Thank you very much 

really good comments everyone ....

During 2001 an underwater city was discovered near Cuba by Paul Weinzweig, of Advanced Digital Communications.

Off the coast of Japan deep in the ocean is a monument where there are huge stone blocks beautifully fitted together in the manner of prehistoric masonry found similar to the Inca cities on the other side of the Pacific Ocean, in the Andes Mountains of South America.
The Sacsayhuamán Walls is a walled complex near the old city of Cusco in the Peru mountains, whose jigsaw blocks are so precise and heavy, that modern technology cannot explain how they were made.

From Inca Peru are thousands of stones discovered since the 1960's with drawings carved into the hard surfaces, showing mankind lived alongside the dinosaurs. Carvings also show technology such as telescopes, microscopes and flying machines.

From rock buried, evidence of pre flood tools

Pre flood men were very intelligent too,

Happy Sabbath


The ica stones are hoaxes.


A throw away line like that is not helpful. Can you give us more information please? 

Look them up on Wikipedia.

OK thanks for your help.

Thomas do your research before you make a point of faith...

Are the Ica Stones Fake? Skeptics Under Fire

By Dr. Dennis Swift Courtesy of The Dinosaur Institute

The first mention of the stones is from a Spanish priest journeying to  Ica in 1535.2

Father Simon, a Jesuit missionary, accompanied Pizarro along the Peruvian coast and recorded his amazement upon viewing the stones. In 1562, Spanish explorers sent some of the stones back to Spain.

Javier Cabrera’s father, Dom Pedro, was about nine years old in 1906, when he witnessed his father excavating outside of Ica and discovering three or four stones in tombs. Javier Cabrera’s grandfather, like many other wealthy Peruvians, had an extensive collection of Pre-Columbian artifacts. The three or four engraved stones were stolen or lost long before Javier Cabrera was born in 1926.4

In 1936, peasants plowing in the fields outside of Ica in Salas uncovered a single stone. The authorities attributed the engraved stones to the Incas because the preponderance of ceramics, textiles, and mummies were associated with the Incas in the Salas region.

In 1955, stones were excavated from tombs on their property. Pablo and Carlos Soldi began to acquire other stones found by the huaqueros of Ocucaje. The Soldi brothers were eyewitnesses of stones being dug up with the mummies and other artifacts from the tombs on their property. The Soldi brothers were the first to recognize the scientific significance of the stones. They requested that official testing be conducted.

Herman Buse gives this account that Pablo Soldi said, "a thick layer of salt pepper covering the main specimens could only be explained by the passage of considerable time." Peruvian archaeologists were invited to excavate on the plantation or to witness firsthand where some of the stones came from. Peruvian archaeologists did not avail themselves of the opportunity. Eventually, Carlos and Pablo had a very large collection of engraved stones. Carlos and Pablo were passionate archaeology buffs, and they endeavored to preserve the stones for the museums of Peru.

Colonel Omar Chioino Carraza, who was the Director of the Peruvian Aeronautical Museum, has no doubt about the stones authenticity. After official government tests, Carraza declared in 1974:

"It seems certain to me . . .that they are a message from a very ancient people whose memory has been lost to history. They were engraved several thousand years ago. They’ve been known in Peru for a long time and my museum has more than four hundred of them."

In 1966, Felix Llosa Romero presented Javier Cabrera with an ovalshaped stone; on one side was engraved a species of fish that was supposed to be extinct millions of years ago. The stone given to Javier was one that had been excavated from the Max Uhle and Toma Luz tomb sites near Ocucaje. Dr. Cabrera told me that the gift of the stone triggered his memory of having seen a similar engraved stone in 1936, when he was about ten years of age. Javier had a lucrative career as a distinguished doctor of medicine. He was the founder of San Luis Gonzaga Ica National University, and he founded the "Casa de Cultura" of Ica to scientifically investigate and preserve the engraved stones.

I have seen the reports from the National University of Engineering, the University of Bonn, and the Maurico Hochshild Mining Company of Lima, Peru. In 1967, Dr. Cabrera selected 33 stones from his collection and sent them to the Maurico Hochshild Mining Company. The laboratory sent back an analysis signed by geologist Eric Wolf. The document states,

The stones are covered with a fine patina of natural oxidation which also covers the grooves, by which age should be able to be deduced . . .
Eric Wolf
Lima June 8, 1967

Dr. Cabrera did not add anything regarding oxidation in the grooves; that was part of the laboratory report.

On January 28, 1969, Dr. Cabrera received the results of the laboratory tests conducted by Professor Frenchen at the University of Bonn. Professor Frenchen’s report confirmed the earlier report: "The stones were andesites and were covered by a patina or film of natural oxidation which also covered the etchings."

In 1966, Santiago Agurto Calvo submitted some of his stones to a laboratory at the National University of Engineering of Peru. The tests’ conclusions lead unmistakably to the conclusion that the stones were indeed of Pre-Hispanic origin.

Joseph F. Blumrich, who was a prominent NASA scientist, developed the design on the Saturn V missile and worked on the design of the Skylab, also studied the stones. Dr. Blumrich wrote that the stones, according to laboratory tests, were authentic and "there is no doubt in my mind about the authenticity of these pictures."

It seems that Filip Coppens has done very little research into the Ica Stones. His article is replete with errors and fictional anecdotes. In fact, Coppens writes "arguing for their genuine origins cast Cabrera into the camp of the Von Danikenites, is both comical and ironic as Von Daniken himself has written that he believes the stones are most likely fakes."

Whenever the Ica stones are mentioned, Basilio Uschuya is claimed to be the forger. I have known Basilio for many years and visited him in Ocucaje on several occasions. Basilio is a poor uneducated Peruvian, who has been at the center of the maelstrom over the authenticity of the Ica stones. Basilio lives in a dirt floor shack without any modern devices. He has no television, no electric generator, and lives on about twenty dollars a month. There are some curious features about Basilio. If you arrive in Ocucaje with a television camera and crew, then he is a consummate showman. With camera rolling, he will tell you that he made stones for Cabrera and give a demonstration with a piece of hacksaw blade as to how he makes them. Basilio will give you a big toothy grim and accept whatever payment offered for his services. Over the years, as I have befriended Basilio, he has opened up and revealed why he puts on an act for television people. First, it gives him a few dollars for his family that is poor even by Peruvian standards. Second, it exonerates him from the charge of peddling antiquities as a tomb robber. Third, it helps him sell a few stones to tourists in Ica. As I have gained his friendship, he has taken me with my wife to the Max Uhle and Toma Luz Pre-Columbian tombs northwest of Ocucaje. It is in this cemetery of thousands of unexcavated tombs that Alejandro Pezzia Asserto, in an official archaeological excavation, found engraved stones.13 While we were walking over the huge gray hill that is a burial mound, we came to some tombs that had recently caved in and there to our surprise was an engraved stone in situ, embedded in the side of the tomb. We filmed this with our camcorder.

Basilio privately admits, that in the tombs, he has found stones and engaged in tomb looting. Publicly, he will not say that because it would mean a long prison sentence in violation of the antiquities laws of Peru. Basilio has shown me other items he has found in the tombs.

Basilio made stones for tourists. His stones are easily identified. They often have dinosaurs with an airplane flying overhead or with a coke machine. Basilio has no idea of the evolutionary time line and when dinosaurs were supposed to be extinct. He has no knowledge of different dinosaur species except the Diplodicus-type dinosaur.

I asked Basilio to make me a stone with certain dinosaurs. He had never heard of those kinds of dinosaurs or even seen a book with dinosaur pictures in it. One of Basilio’s sons, who has received an education, said that he had heard of such dinosaurs. I brought Basilio a picture of that species of dinosaur. He carved the stone with a single dinosaur taking him a period of a day. The stone was crudely done and very ordinary.

I had in my possession, a Basilio original, which I was going to utilize in a test for authenticity. Basilio’s production is about four or five stones a month. These stones have bright white incisions. Cabrera’s Collection has over 11,000 stones. It would take a minimum of fifteen hours to produce the engravings on an average stone in Cabrera’s Collection, not to mention Cabrera’s stones are done with outstanding artistic skill and imagination. It has been estimated that it would take a forger three hundred seventy-five thousand working hours or 31,250 days to make the stones in Cabrera’s Collection. If Basilio made the stones, then he had an army of elves working with him. Basilio admits that he acquired stones for Cabrera. These stones came from tombs and caves in the Ocucaje region. Under threat of a prison sentence, he said he made them.

The Rocks Begin To Speak

The stones give mute testimony to the fact that man walked with dinosaurs. I was certain that in the laboratory, the rocks would break that silence and communicate in the language of scientific assertion, that they are ancient carved canvasses.

I brought three stones to Mason Optical, Inc. for analysis. Mason Optical invented a revolutionary stereoscopic microscope that costs between eighty to one hundred thousand dollars. The three stones included in the study:

A) The fake stone carved by Basilio
B) An Ica stone from Cabrera’s Collection
C) The stone from the tomb in Rio Grande, Nazca
The laboratory results revealed several defining characteristics of the stones:

A) The first stone, under microscopic investigation, showed very shallow incisions with small scratches and chips from the stone. Minute specks of blue metal (steel) were found on the stone. The incisions were clean and angled. There was no patina or film of oxidation on the stone; no microorganisms or salt peter were found on the stone. The laboratory conclusion was that the stone was of recent manufacture. Someone had used a metal blade or tool with short strokes to carve the grooves in the stone. The tool left behind the minute specks of metal that could be seen under the optical microscope. The laboratory’s discovery was consistent with the truth. I had watched Basilio with a four-inch piece of blue steel hacksaw blade making short, hard strokes on the stone.

I owned a Basilio "original." Were the Cabrera rocks also Basilio originals?

In 1978, the NOVA program aired, "The Case of the Ancient Astronauts." They included the Ica stones as part of their analysis of the claims that ancient astronauts visited earth. NOVA showed the viewing audience close-ups of the incisions on the rocks. The incisions appeared to be fairly new. If they were new, how new? Cabrera claimed the rocks were carved one hundred million years ago. Such a claim is sheer nonsense, but what about thousands or a few hundred years old?

B) The microscopic analysis of the Cabrera rock or Ica Stone revealed that it had a fine patina covering the grooves and incisions of the stone. There was dirt and sand embedded in the crevices of the stone including some of the incisions. The natural oxidation had slightly colored the incisions so that they did not have a bright-white look. No evidence of modern tool usage or minute metal particles were found. The laboratory conclusion was that the engravings on the stone were not recent but of some age. That age could not be determined because patina and natural oxidation cannot be accurately measured. The patina is not an absolute proof of age, but it would be impossible to find patina on a recently engraved stone.

The stone has an outside layer of coloration and weathering. When an incision (cut) is made, it breaks that layer. If the weathering has been scraped away and the stone’s natural color shows at the base of the incision, the cut is probably new. If the incisions have become weathered and the stone’s coloration extends down into the incisions, then the stone’s incisions are at least "old" to some degree.

C) The third stone from the tomb at Rio Grande, Nazca, was examined under the stereo zoom microscope. This stone had a heavy coat of patination and oxidation. Microorganisms could be seen in the grooves and the incisions. There is a uniformity of coloration and weathering. The incisions and cuts are as dark and weathered as the rest of the stone. There are several thick concentrations of salt peter that are so full of salt buildup that it covers parts of the carving with a white layer obscuring the image below. There are seriations and slight fizzures in the grooves. This could only happen over a considerable period of time with the change of heat and cold through the seasons in the desert. There is a notable irregular wear on the edges of the incisions that leads one to the inescapable conclusion that this stone had undergone considerable wear. Lichen growth was also found on one section of the stone. Dirt and sand were embedded in the grooves, cracks, crevices, and orifices of the stone. There is a dark blackish stain covering the body of one of the dinosaur zoomorph images. The salient conclusion of the laboratory is that the stone is of some age, in fact, of antiquity of hundreds or thousands of years old.

I discussed with Dr. Verano the salt on the stone artifact. I did not divulge where the stone was found. Dr. Verano said that it was a common occurrence in their excavations on the northern coast of Peru near the Pacific Ocean, to find artifacts with marine salts on them. These objects came out of the tombs with salt peter concentrations on them. The inland arid desert tombs seldom if ever have artifacts with salt peter, because the desert is almost completely devoid of moisture.

The third stone from the tomb in the Nazca desert had grooves that were dark gray, weathered, cracked, and embedded with salt peter. The salt peter under 75x magnification looked like a growth of algae all over a section of the stone. No doubt this stone had been buried for centuries. There were five patches of lichens growing on the stone. The image of two dinosaurs, a sea creature, and some unknown animal were calculated to be 1/16th of an inch on average above the stone. The figures were done in bas relief. How the stone was carved away to make the figures higher than the stone is a mystery. Richard Sutcliffe, who performed the microscopic probe, is an expert in machine made tools. Richard theorized that the ancient people might have used a tool with a diamond-type bit.

The ROI probe was used to film a thirty-eight minute video of the three stones. How the authentic stones were carved may go unsolved, but they display the traces of the past: patina, salt peter, lichen growth, and weatherization. The blood stain on the stone from Rio Grande Nazca was saturated with bacterial contamination. The Peruvian archaeologists who saw the stone gave definitive statements that the stain was caused by the fluids from a mummy. When told of the dinosaur images, they said, "Well, we don’t have an opinion about that. We’re saying the stain is characteristic of that found on textiles and ceramics that are interred with mummies."

A thirty-eight minute video of the test was recorded, and upon viewing, skeptics lapse into a profound prolonged silence. After years of exhaustive investigation and enormous expense, the verdict was in. There is an ancient core of stones from Ica, Nazca, Paracas, Tiahuanaco, and Wari tombs. Anyone who postulates that they are fakes has gone out on a broken limb without historical or scientific support.



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