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Rob

 

Since the discussion on the other thread had gotten so far off of that thread, I am moving the comments over to this thread.  I'll copy and past the last two rounds of our discussion and we can move on from there.  OK?

 

Ray

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Many of the Jews who had accepted the gospel still cherished a regard for the ceremonial law and were only too willing to make unwise concessions, hoping thus to gain the confidence of their countrymen, to remove their prejudice, and to win them to faith in Christ as the world's Redeemer. Paul realized that so long as many of the leading members of the church at Jerusalem should continue to cherish prejudice against him, they would work constantly to counteract his influence. He felt that if by any reasonable concession he could win them to the truth he would remove a great obstacle to the success of the gospel in other places. But he was not authorized of God to concede as much as they asked.
When we think of Paul's great desire to be in harmony with his brethren, his tenderness toward the weak in the faith, his reverence for the apostles who had been with Christ, and for James, the brother of the Lord, and his purpose to become all things to all men so far as he could without sacrificing principle--when we think of all this, it is less surprising that he was constrained to deviate from the firm, decided course that he had hitherto followed. But instead of accomplishing the desired object, his efforts for conciliation only precipitated the crisis, hastened his predicted sufferings, and resulted in separating him from his brethren, depriving the church of one of its strongest pillars, and bringing sorrow to Christian hearts in every land. AA 405.1,2

Can explain what the SOP is saying for you Jason....it is hard to read

Shalom

It's clear

I see, well I read it many times and I don't see Paul following the feasts out of concession to old Jewish faith, instead I see EGW does not say the feasts were abolished.... She talks a lot about the term "love feast" and this suggests a direction our pioneers would go towards....the Tabernacle feast for example was a simile of Big Camp...

Shalom

Peace


Jason wrote: "it's clear"



My brother Jason, what's clear? Let me answer brother Rob's question for you, and tell him what the quote is saying to you.

Brother a Rob, Jason believes because Paul observed some ceremonial laws so he can have a better chance on reaching his brethren..... that this is the same reason he observed the Holy set days of GOD, he assumes the annual Holy set days of GOD are ceremonial.


But you notice in the quote EGW said


EGW : "But he was not authorized of God to concede as much as they asked."



So those Jews who accepted Christ and still cherished the ceremonial laws (not the annual Holy set days) ask Paul to observe certain ceremonial rituals. It's understandable what Paul did.




EGW: "When we think of Paul's great desire to be in harmony with his brethren, his tenderness toward the weak in the faith, his reverence for the apostles who had been with Christ, and for James, the brother of the Lord, and his purpose to become all things to all men so far as he could without sacrificing principle--when we think of all this, it is less surprising that he was constrained to deviate from the firm, decided course that he had hitherto followed. "




Let's remember, GOD'S way is the only way, and Paul went off track. How do we know? Well EGW said.



"But he was not authorized of God to concede as much as they asked."


"It is less surprising that he was constrained to deviate from the firm, decided course that he had hitherto followed. "



This wasn't the course GOD had for Paul, and because of that



EGW : "...instead of accomplishing the desired object, his efforts for conciliation only precipitated the crisis, hastened his predicted sufferings, and resulted in separating him from his brethren, depriving the church of one of its strongest pillars, and bringing sorrow to Christian hearts in every land. AA 405.1,2




However, Paul and Luke observing the annual Holy set days of GOD in Philippi wasn't because of demands from anybody, except GOD. There wasn't pressure from Jews to observe the annual Holy set days. Luke and Paul of their own free will observed those days.




EGW: "At Philippi Paul tarried to keep the Passover. Only Luke remained with him, the other members of the company passing on to Troas to await him there. The Philippians were the most loving and truehearted of the apostle’s converts, and during the eight days of the feast he enjoyed peaceful and happy communion with them."– {AA 390.4}



Luke and Paul are enjoying a peaceful time for the eight days of the feast. Nowhere does it say


"But he was not authorized of God to concede as much as they asked."


"It is less surprising that he was constrained to deviate from the firm, decided course that he had hitherto followed. "



They are Two different circumstances Jason. GOD Holy feast are still binding, nowhere do I read they were done away with. As we come down the line of Christianity we see Christians still observing GOD Annual Holy days.



"From Rome there came now another addition to the sunworshipping apostasy. The first Christians being mostly Jews, continued to celebrate, in remembrance of the death of Christ, the true Passover; and this was continued among those who from among the Gentles had turned to Christ. Accordingly, the celebration was always on the Passover day, the fourteenth of the first month.Rome, however, and from her all the West, adopted the day of the sun as the day of this coloration. According to the Eastern custom, the celebration, being on the fourteenth day of the month, would of course fall on different days of the week as the years resolved. The rule of Rome was that the celebration must always be on a Sunday." (Great Empires of Prophecy, 1898, p. 389 by A.T. Jones)




As we see Rome doesn't deny it..



This is from the Catechism of Pope Pius X:

2 Q. What are festivals?

A. In the Old Law they were Saturdays and certain other days regarded as specially solemn by the Jews; in the New Law they are Sundays and other festivals instituted by the Church.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"The Cath. Church abolished not only the Sabbath, but all the other Jewish festivals. Pray and study. I shall be always glad to help you as long as you honestly seek the truth. Respectfully, T.
Enright CSSR.” June 1905



The Bible said Rome would try this




Daniel 7:25 (Amplified Bible)
"And he shall speak words against the Most High [God] and shall wear out the saints of the Most High and think to change the time [of sacred feasts and holy days] and the law; and the saints shall be given into his hand for a time, two times, and half a time [three and one-half years].

Daniel 7:25 (New Living Translation)
"He will defy the Most High and oppress the holy people of the Most High. He will try to change their sacred festivals and laws, and they will be placed under his control for a time, times, and half a time.

Dan. 7:25 (New American Bible)
"He shall speak against the Most High and oppress the holy ones of the Most High, thinking to change the feast days and the law. They shall be handed over to him for a year, two years, and a half-year.




Oh yeah, it's clear Jason, apparently you have no idea, or you do, but choose to stick to your false views despite the evidence.



Blessings!

You wrote that very well Reasoning, and I agree with you, the love feasts as EGW calls them are still binding tokens of love for us, and very useful for us in the last days... I feel for most SDA who think these so called ceremonial feasts are no longer necessary...

Unleavened feast...that one is over due....learning to do with less, overcoming our lusty ways of materialism ...its  a future feast still

Tabernacles...when we the last time we practiced living in the bush without mod cons eating herbs on the side of the road and praying to Jesus to sustain us.... what do SDA people think Tabernacles is for ? it's a future feast still

Why even the Lord's Passover ordinance feast is still a future thing we do.... getting ready for the marriage.... that what Jesus said He would do, not eat or drink grapes until the wedding day with His own

Shalom

If God tells us to observe something we should observe it. It's that simple.

We are putting words in Paul's mouth if we say he observed the festivals to please the Jews. And this just does not cut it when Paul was keeping the festivals with Gentiles in a Gentile place. 

I totally agree with you Ricky, why we SDA have assumed the feasts are no longer required even in a spiritual sense I don't know....the people in Acts kept the feasts...

Shalom

I will never agree to that in a literal sence but the Spiritual significanse is. Something we can still learn from this i agree with

I would also agree Uncle, not as a literal feasts, but spiritually we need to practice them, for they point to future events Jesus will do for us...

Passover= Ordinance Lord's = Marriage invitation

Unleaven = doing with less, overcoming our propensities

First fruits = preparation for 144,000 special priests to be chosen

Penetcost = praying for latter rains

Trumpets = practicing for waring tribulation man has never seen

Atonement= praying for deeper gratitude for forgiveness until Jesus leaves most holy place

Tabernacles = practicing living in bush on herbs, Jesus and prayer.

Shalom

Peace


What do you mean by literal brother Rob?


I agree, Spiritually there's much to learn and that they point to future events. Also I believe we are to observe the Holy set days on the days GOD tells us to... Just like Luke and Paul did.



EGW: "At Philippi Paul tarried to keep the Passover. Only Luke remained with him, the other members of the company passing on to Troas to await him there. The Philippians were the most loving and truehearted of the apostle’s converts, and during the eight days of the feast he enjoyed peaceful and happy communion with them."– {AA 390.4}



They are observing the Holy days on the days GOD said we should. In that sense their literal.



Blessings!
This quote has been abused, although there is no command in her writing to observe these feasts. She herself did not observe the feasts days. We encourage camp meetings... but not feast days.

"The forces of the enemies are strengthening, and as a people we are misrepresented; but shall we not gather our forces together, and come up to the feast of tabernacles? Let us not treat this matter as one of little importance, but let the army of the Lord be on the ground to represent the work and cause of God in Australia. Let no one plead an excuse at such a time. One of the reasons why we have appointed the camp-meeting to be held at Melbourne, is that we desire the people of that vicinity to become acquainted with our doctrines and works. We want them to know what we are, and what we believe. Let every one pray, and make God his trust. Those who are barricaded with prejudice must hear the warning message for this time. We must find our way to the hearts of the people. Therefore come to the camp-meeting, even though you have to make a sacrifice to do so, and the Lord will bless your efforts to honour his cause and advance his work." (Bible Echo and Signs of the Times, Dec. 8, 1893.)

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