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Rob

 

Since the discussion on the other thread had gotten so far off of that thread, I am moving the comments over to this thread.  I'll copy and past the last two rounds of our discussion and we can move on from there.  OK?

 

Ray

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What commandments are written to the Jews and which are written to the Body of Christ?
Thank you Gene for saying the truth. You do understand. The Jews wanted to bring not just circumcision, but all 613 laws. That is clear by the context of chapter 15 of Acts. It is also evident with what Peter was saying that even the Jews could not keep the law. The Council determined very limited restrictions on the Gentiles. Salvation is solely by faith, no works of the law can obtain it whatsoever.

In going on now in 43 years of experience of seeing different people that profess to be Christians, there are those zealous for the law, who seldom get anything of the spirit if at all, who go around hounding people to follow the law, many of these are the most cantankerous and miserable people to be around. Then those who believe in God working in themselves and others, who operate the love of God, and do by grace, who know they are sinners and yet trust and love what God has done for them.

Some people here are not content to work out their own salvation and walk. Busy bodies seeing if they can accuse anyone of something, who doesn't believe all 28 fundamental beliefs, who drinks coffee or has a beer or whatever. I have talked to believers who confided in me that they liked to dance, afraid one of these law hawks would find out.

There is a certain Liberty in Christ, which some do not understand, being zealous of rules that must be obeyed. I think God wants a loving, thinking person, who knows why and what God's will is. Many do not think deeply on the word and seek everything they can find in both the Word itself, as well as inspired scholars, elders in the body of Christ, not just the SDA. The total lack of understanding about the sacred secrets and the operations of the Holy Spirit causes most of the body of Christ to be weak, sick, die early, undue suffering, and loss of potential great opportunities. Since God promises power of the Holy Spirit, you should ask yourselves why you don't have it into manifestation?

Knee jerkingly referring to counterfeit spirits without knowledge, evidence, revelation and a true understanding and experience of walking by the Holy Spirit which requires all nine manifestations of Holy Spirit, is dirty pool and dirty tactics and disengenuous and unchristian, and quenching the spirit and blaspheming the spirit. I have warned you JasonM and Elijah, you walk on dangerous ground in mocking Holy manifestations of God.
If you are under the law, then you must follow all 613 laws, as there is no place in scripture that divides the law into moral and ceremonial. Jesus divided the Word thusly;

Like 24:44-51 "And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
And ye are witnesses of these things.
And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.
And he led them out as far as to Bethany, and he lifted up his hands, and blessed them.
And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven."

You JasonM like the law, but you don't like the power from on high?
You always claim counterfeit, giving glory to Lucifer and blaspheming the Holy Spirit.
Jesus divided the Word: The Law of Moses (notdivided by ceremonial and moral), The Prophets and The Psalms. Period! The Hebrews never divided it by ceremonial and moral. The Word itself never does so either. This idea is a legal fiction created by man, a man-made dectrine.

EGW's teaching that Jesus did not nail the whole law on the cross as the scriptures say would mean if true that Christians are still guilty of the law for past, present and future sins, not righteous before God, and have no place in the kingdom of God.
Peace


Brother James, What Would you call a command/law that we shouldn't steal, or man lying with another man, or man lying with an animal? Would that be considered of a Moral nature?

What would you call a command/law of priestly temple ceremonies and rituals? Can that be considered ceremonial? Like killing a lamb, that's was a ceremony done, hence the term ceremonial.


So, by you saying it's not divided by Moral and ceremonial doesn't hold weight... With all due respect, common sense ( again no disrespect) tells us certain laws within the whole law of GOD was Moral and ceremonial. Many Protestant pioneers understood many laws were considered Moral, especially the Ten Commandments.



Blessings brother!! :)
I am saying do not judge others on eating, drinking, new moons and sabbaths, that is their conscience before God, not yours. You are in error in doing so. Many Christians including some SDA also misunderstand and misapply the law, and confuse administrations God set up, such as the administration of grace.
I have been informed that some SDA believe that dancing, wearing jewelry, drinking any alcohol, going to a movie are sins?
Reasoning; It's not what you call something, or what category you put something into, in man's view and opinion that is truth, it is whether God makes the distinction of ceremonial law and moral law. He does not, but rather by the New Covenant the law is done away with, as Paul received revelation of Jesus Christ.

But as historical fact because God did not divide the law, neither did the Hebrews. Therefore the spiritual truth and fact is that the law is done away with. You may not like it, you may disagree with it, but that is the truth. You cannot produce a verse or anything in the Talmud even that divides the law by any means including "ceremonial and morale law."

Therefore there is no bona-fode Biblical authority for it. There is also no Biblical authority that the Weekly Sabbath was written to anyone or established as a law to man before the law was given to the Hebrews. Stating that it is a universal law written to all mankind is also untrue. Only the Hebrews had and knew the law. Other people lived their lives without God and without knowledge of any of God's commandments. The premises stated are without Biblical record. The record that God rested in Genesis emphasizes the completeness and accomplishment of the creation, as God does not get tired and does not need to rest. There is no record or proof that any type of Sabbath was practiced previously to the Hebrews.

If it was practiced and known, then why would God need to give it again supposedly?
I don't like to rain on people's parade, but truth and accuracy is important.

Now, if you or anyone wants to esteem any day as a day of rest is fine for you, but we are not to judge others on eating, drinking, new moons and sabbaths. That is the point. SDA members conscience before God in doing so is fine, but claiming these things and judging others about it is contrary to Paul's admonition, even if there was authority for such in the Old Testament, which there is not prior to the law being given as recorded.

So I am not against SDA meeting on Sabbath etc., that is great, but don't judge others that don't esteem that day or any day. I attended most Sabbaths at an SDA church for several years because I wanted to, not because I was under law to do so. I enjoyed the fellowship and made many friends and I love SDA people and have a high regard for them. I just disagree on what is not Biblically correct doctrine and practice from study of the Word.

Clearly, you do not understand what the difference is between the Moral Law and the Ceremonial Law. And as long as you do not are able to see the difference you will never understand why you should esteem the Sabbath above the other days of the week. Clearly, your understanding about the Sabbath is a bit like your understanding about the Holy Spirit. Humanistic.

Peace


James wrote: "Reasoning; It's not what you call something, or what category you put something into, in man's view and opinion that is truth, it is whether God makes the distinction of ceremonial law and moral law. He does not, but rather by the New Covenant the law is done away with, as Paul received revelation of Jesus Christ."



I totally understand what your saying... However because the Bible doesn't use the word Moral and ceremonial, that doesn't mean it can't be put into categories of Moral and ceremonial. Again, no disrespect, it's common sense... Killing lambs was done away with, that's was ceremonial, not having no other god but the True a living living GOD, that is Moral, is it not? (<---please answer)... that wasn't done away with. How can that Moral law be done away with at the cross? Impossible!


This is a case of throwing the baby out with the bath water... I say again, most Christians believe the Ten Commandments are still in effect, that it wasn't done away with. Unfortunately, you take verses and try to make them say something it's not.

In regards to the Sabbath day, the actions of the apostles shows that the Sabbath was still being observed after the cross. Luke, Paul and his converts observed the Sabbath by the riverside. Why would they still be observing the Sabbath if it was done away with? I know why, because they understood killing lambs Was ended at the cross, and they also understood GOD'S weekly Holy day was still Holy, and wasn't done away with.

Brother James, you have to go to SDA 101A, or maybe you don't want to see clear evidence proving the Ten Commandments wasn't done away with. In Dan.7, it's talks about the beast changing times and laws of GOD, it's proof Rome has been trying to do that... But with all due respect, you take it much further than Rome, you want to teach it's all done away with.

Remember, SDA don't teach observing the Ten Commandments saves us, but it makes us aware of sin, and sin is the transgression of the law. You can't transgress a law if it's not in effect.


Brother James, it's always been obvious you have problems with most of SDA teachings, and that's ok... But this is a site for SDA, if you wanted to constantly debate our doctrines, you could have shown some respect and did it on a open forum where all people are welcome, and able to discuss points of disagreement.

It goes back to what JohnB said, in order to join the site, you had to tell a fib brother James... Come,come now... Just on that basis, you should do the right thing and delete your profile. Not that I hate you or anything, but fibbing is not good, we know who's the author of that.


Blessings to you and your family!! :)
I agree to disagree. The Pharisees made sophist distinctions and held the Talmud up above the Old Testament as authority by adding to the Word of God and the oral traditions which were not inspired or authorized by God became the belief system of the Jews.

The Old Testament and even the Talmud does not make the distinction, doing so is without authority to do so. The Old Testament was inspired the way it is written, not with what we or our religion wants it to say.

Likewise Paul received the Musterion (sacred secrets), which were not known before, and are inspired by the spirit of God. I previously quoted Paul and He and the spirit of God which inspired him did not make the distinction, and the Word of God often contradicts "common sense" which you refer to. It is not common sense that the dead are raised, that the blind receive their sight, or that believers are saved and have eternal life.

Taking liberties with the written Word leads to false doctrines and practices. Likewise the entrance to this sites statements refer to all those seeking the truth are welcome and how to deal with those that don't believe etc., as well as the Facebook states about the site "and those exploring Bible truth."

The entrance information was ambiguous. You accuse me of lying, well the entrance information is a lie and your exclusivity and separatist attitude is not in accordance with the one body of Christ, which is a major part of the sacred secrets taught by Paul. Jesus taught openly with the exception of when he disclosed some sacred secrets in parables so that only the disciples would understand, as he prepared them with that exclusive information and yet kept it secret to all others so the Devil would not know and be able to counter God's secret plan for man's salvation.

What if what I teach here is true? Then you have rejected truths lost for 2000 years, including the manifestations which seldom do SDA manifest, having no desire, understanding, tradition, encouragement or teachers or mentors. Therefore you do not have correct understanding, doctrine or practice in the manifestations of holy spirit.

The fact is that you continue to call them gifts which words in reference to the manifestations do not have authority, being italicized words in the KJV which indicates words added by the translators, yet despite my stating this to the contrary.

Billions of Christians through history have been lead astray by gifts, having never manifested the power of God they were invested with by the spirit. Religion is bondage, truth sets men free. Believers are free from the law, or they are in Bondsge as Paul said regarding the law in Galatians. If one does the law, he is required to do the whole law which was never divided. Your assertions also deny the Council of Jerusalem and the simple requirements for the Gentiles decided at that conference by all there including Peter, Paul and James the brother of Jesus in chapter 15 of Acts. The document is quoted in that chapter.
Peace


James wrote: "Taking liberties with the written Word leads to false doctrines and practices. Likewise the entrance to this sites statements refer to all those seeking the truth are welcome and how to deal with those that don't believe etc., as well as the Facebook states about the site "and those exploring Bible truth."




AO site rules: "12.This is a site by Seventh-day Adventists for Seventh-day Adventists. We welcome all seekers of God's truth here. We believe that God will continue to reveal His truth to His people as time progresses. Thus we are constantly seeking a better understanding of God and His word. We welcome all that are doing the same. That said, if it becomes apparent that your purpose in being a member of this site is to promote a different agenda and/or sow discord among the brethren, your ability to interact with this site may be restricted."



Brother James, what's the first sentence? This site is for who? SDA! Are you a SDA brother James? No your not, so with all due respect, this site isn't for you. Now, I do have love for you, but the site is for SDA. Sorry! The question you had to answer to see if you where an SDA, only pertains to a person who is a SDA. Why do you think that is so? Because "This is a site by Seventh-day Adventists for Seventh-day Adventists."


As I've come to find out in my relative short time as an SDA, I find many with different beliefs, they believe in SDA doctrines, like the 2520 folks, or lunar Sabbath people, and for many in the SDA Church, I would be considered someone as well, with my beliefs about the Holy annual days of GOD... All Those who believe in SDA doctrines has a right to be here.

With that understanding, the second sentence makes much more sense, and doesn't allow you to bend the rules to accommodate or give you the right to be here. All seekers within the SDA community are welcome.


In the heading it says connecting Seventh day Adventist every day... it's not a prejudice thing brother James, but "This is a site by Seventh-day Adventists for Seventh-day Adventists. ". Are you a Seventh day Adventist brother James?


If your not, then you have no right to be here, there are other forums that you can engage people of all beliefs... I don't want come off harsh, but you misread the rules, and you answered a question only meant for an SDA. Would a JW do that, or Mormon? SDA wouldn't go join a site meant for Mormons... If it said this is a site by Mormons for Mormons, then why would I join? You understand what I'm saying to you?



Blessings!

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