Adventist Online



Since the discussion on the other thread had gotten so far off of that thread, I am moving the comments over to this thread.  I'll copy and past the last two rounds of our discussion and we can move on from there.  OK?



Views: 6209

Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

In reality I believe Reasoning that you are complicating something that is truly simple. 

Act 15:23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:
Act 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
Act 15:25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
Act 15:26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Act 15:27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.
Act 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
Act 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Mat 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Rev 2:24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.
Rev 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

The test in the Garden of Eden was the fruit of the tree of good and evil. We failed! The test in the end will also be Obedience to God or the devil. 

There is no Biblical Authority for using the term "Ceremonial Law." There is also no authority to divide the law into what you desire to follow and that which is not desired to be followed. He who wants to follow the law, is a debtor to the whole law, every and all 613 laws.

James, you better swat up on the 5 books of Moses, who was themselves called the law. 

As the sons of Joseph made preparation to attend the Feast of Tabernacles, they saw that Christ made no movement signifying His intention of attending. They watched Him with anxiety. Since the healing at Bethesda He had not attended the national gatherings. To avoid useless conflict with the leaders at Jerusalem, He had restricted His labors to Galilee. His apparent neglect of the great religious assemblies, and the enmity manifested toward Him by the priests and rabbis, were a cause of perplexity to the people about Him, and even to His own disciples and His kindred. In His teachings He had dwelt upon the blessings of obedience to the law of God, and yet He Himself seemed to be indifferent to the service which had been divinely established…. {DA 450.1}


He had been absent from the feasts, the interest in Him had not abated. Many from all parts of the world had come up to the Feast of Tabernacles in the hope of seeing Him. At the beginning of the feast many inquiries were made for Him… . {DA 451.4}

I believe that Jesus was showing us something here and that’s why we don’t keep these things any more.


The antitypical fulfillment of the Feast of Tabernacles is yet future. Christians today who constitute Spiritual Israel are likewise passing through a wilderness – the wilderness of sin – on our way to the Heavenly Land. The Church is now on the borders of Canaan, about to enter in. As we traverse this wilderness, our tabernacle of dwelling is not the house in which we live, but this sin-worn body. The apostle Paul uses the tabernacle metaphor to describe our mortal state while contrasting it with the immortal state: “For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but to be further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life”. 2Corinthians 5:1-4.

When at the second advent of Jesus Christ ‘this mortal puts on immortality and this corruptible puts on incorruption’,  then will the saints have laid off their temporary tabernacles and moved into their permanent habitation – forever. Then will the purpose of the first tabernacle which was erected for the dwelling place of God, meet its antitypical fulfillment. Not only will the saints be in their eternal habitation, but the Lord Himself will tabernacle or dwell with His people forever. The Revelator says it this way: “And I heard aloud voice from heaven saying, ‘the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people, and He Himself will be with them be their God’”. Revelation 21:3.

As the Feast was celebrated in old times only after the people had gathered in the ‘fruit of the land’, thus will it be in the antitypical celebration. When all of God’s children of all ages shall have been gathered into His kingdom, then we will celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles/Ingathering. Zechariah 14:16.



Reasoning you are adding a false meaning ot the text in Daniel 7:25. "And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time."

We all know that when the bible said times and Laws it referred to the change of the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday for times and Laws refer to the removal of the second commandment and the spiting of the last one into two to preserve the number 10. 

The detector of error having been removed, Satan worked according to his will. Prophecy had declared that the papacy was to “think to change times and laws.” Daniel 7:25. This work it was not slow to attempt. To afford converts from heathenism a substitute for the worship of idols, and thus to promote their nominal acceptance of Christianity, the adoration of images and relics was gradually introduced into the Christian worship. The decree of a general council (see Appendix) finally established this system of idolatry. To complete the sacrilegious work, Rome presumed to expunge from the law of God the second commandment, forbidding image worship, and to divide the tenth commandment, in order to preserve the number. {GC 51.4}
The spirit of concession to paganism opened the way for a still further disregard of Heaven’s authority. Satan, working through unconsecrated leaders of the church, tampered with the fourth commandment also, and essayed to set aside the ancient Sabbath, the day which God had blessed and sanctified (Genesis 2:2, 3), and in its stead to exalt the festival observed by the heathen as “the venerable day of the sun.” This change was not at first attempted openly. In the first centuries the true Sabbath had been kept by all Christians. They were jealous for the honor of God, and, believing that His law is immutable, they zealously guarded the sacredness of its precepts. But with great subtlety Satan worked through his agents to bring about his object. That the attention of the people might be called to the Sunday, it was made a festival in honor of the resurrection of Christ. Religious services were held upon it; yet it was regarded as a day of recreation, the Sabbath being still sacredly observed. {GC 52.1}
Reasoning to are fighting the Spirit of God . The bible is not on your side, SOP is not on your side, but you will grab hold on anything in history which is not wise, as we know history is not on your side. 
The special characteristic of the beast, and therefore of his image, is the breaking of God’s commandments. Says Daniel, of the little horn, the papacy: “He shall think to change times and the law.” Daniel 7:25, R.V. And Paul styled the same power the “man of sin,” who was to exalt himself above God. One prophecy is a complement of the other. Only by changing God’s law could the papacy exalt itself above God; whoever should understandingly keep the law as thus changed would be giving supreme honor to that power by which the change was made. Such an act of obedience to papal laws would be a mark of allegiance to the pope in the place of God. {GC 446.1}
The papacy has attempted to change the law of God. The second commandment, forbidding image worship, has been dropped from the law, and the fourth commandment has been so changed as to authorize the observance of the first instead of the seventh day as the Sabbath. But papists urge, as a reason for omitting the second commandment, that it is unnecessary, being included in the first, and that they are giving the law exactly as God designed it to be understood. This cannot be the change foretold by the prophet. An intentional, deliberate change is presented: “He shall think to change the times and the law.” The change in the fourth commandment exactly fulfills the prophecy. For this the only authority claimed is that of the church. Here the papal power openly sets itself above God. {GC 446.2}

Reasoning posted: " EGW: "At Philippi Paul tarried to keep the Passover. Only Luke remained with him, the other members of the company passing on to Troas to await him there. The Philippians were the most loving and truehearted of the apostle’s converts, and during the eight days of the feast he enjoyed peaceful and happy communion with them." AA p.390"


Reasoning we all knew that Paul was Jew. He was the son of a  Jews in the city of Tarsus. Tarsus was a Roman “free city,”In other words they were not required to pay taxes etc. And because this country was a major trade route Saul was able to learn many languages.  He was sent by his parents to Jerusalem to study under Gamaliel, the head of the Sanhedrin and a Pharisee (Acts 5:34-40). Where He learnt more languages, this is why he said that he was able to speak more foreign languages than all the Corinthians in 1 Corinthians 14:18.


Saul was a staunch Jew, he declares himself “blameless” (Philippians 3:6) and “exceedingly zealous” (Galatians 1:14). Like extremist Muslims today Saul became a religious zealot against the Christians to the point of hating the new sect (Acts 7:57 –8:1).

“As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed them to prison” (Acts 8:3).

Then he received written permission to sell out the Christians in Damascus (Acts 22:4-5).


After Saul met the risen Lord (Acts 27:6-11) and was converted, he not only became one of God’s most effective evangelists, he was given amazing gifts of tact and discernment, and sought to elevate truth without undermining Jewish tradition. He did not want to create any barriers to the spread of the gospel.

“He thus tried to allay prejudice, and win souls to the truth. He refrained from urging upon the Jews the fact that the ceremonial laws were no longer of any force. He cautioned Timothy to remove any occasion for them to reject his labors. He complied with their rules and ordinances as far as was consistent with his mission to the Gentiles. He would not mislead the Jews nor practice deception upon them; but he waived his personal feelings, for the truth's sake.


With the Gentiles his manner of labor was different. He plainly informed them that the sacrificial offerings and ceremonies of the Jews were no longer to be observed, and preached to them Christ and him crucified.


“The apostle in his labors encountered a class who claimed that the moral law had been made void, with the precepts of the ceremonial system. He vindicated the law of ten commandments, and held it up before the people as a rule of life. He showed that all men are under the most solemn obligation to obey that law, which Christ came to make honorable. He taught that Christ is the only one who can release men from the consequences of breaking the divine law; and that it is only by repentance for their past transgressions, faith in the atoning sacrifice of Christ, and a life of obedience, that men can hope to receive the favor of God.” Sketches from the Life of Paul, pp. 161-162



One of Paul’s greatest challenges lay with the Jews who felt that old customs and ceremonies had spiritual virtues. With zeal beyond propriety these radicals threatened to divide the new church.


Judaizing teachers were opposing the work of the apostle, and seeking to destroy the fruit of his labors. In almost every church there were some members who were Jews by birth. To these converts the Jewish teachers found ready access, and through them gained a foot-hold in the churches.... In the Galatian churches, open, unmasked error was supplanting the faith of the gospel. Christ, the true foundation, was virtually renounced for the obsolete ceremonies of Judaism. The apostle saw that if these churches were saved from the dangerous influences which threatened them, the most decisive measures must be taken, the sharpest warnings given, to bring them to a sense of their true condition.” (Ibid., pp. 188-190 emphasis added.)


Even “The disciples themselves yet cherished a regard for the ceremonial law, and were too willing to make concessions, hoping by so doing to gain the confidence of their countrymen, remove their prejudice, and win them to faith in Christ as the world's Redeemer.”  Ibid., p. 213


Thus, the great transition to Christianity was delicate and difficult. The disciples compromised too freely, and Paul had to carefully work to quell criticism and even charges of sedition from the powerful Sanhedrin.


By non-conformity to the ceremonial law, Christians would bring upon themselves the hatred of the unbelieving Jews, and expose themselves to severe persecution. The Sanhedrin was doing its utmost to hinder the progress of the gospel. Men were chosen by this body to follow up the apostles, especially Paul, and in every possible way oppose them in their work. Should the believers in Christ be condemned before the Sanhedrin as breakers of the law, they would bring upon themselves swift and severe punishment as apostates from the Jewish faith.”


Yet in the “field,” away from Jerusalem, Paul sought to break down the Jew/Gentile barriers – “we are one in Christ.”


Showing how difficult the path was for Paul is this insight: “He did not find fault with their observance of forms and ceremonies [open criticism was not his method in dealing with Jewish rituals], but showed that while they maintained the ritual service with great exactness, they were rejecting Him who was the antitype of all that system.” Ibid., p. 276.


When Jewish influences were absent, Paul did not urge any of the ceremonial or ritual services. “He had done all in his power to remove the prejudice and distrust so unjustly excited because he presented the gospel to the Gentiles without the restrictions of the ceremonial law.”  Ibid., p. 208


Paul was very gracious and pragmatic in his work with others. He wouldn’t compromise truth or condone sin. He forever elevated the name of Jesus. And, as a tireless worker, he constantly sought to avoid misunderstanding for the higher purpose of sharing the gospel.


This is wonderfully revealed in his letter to the Corinthians. “And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law” (I Corinthians 9:20-21).

“The workers in the cause should not feel that the only way they can work is to make known all points of doctrine … at once, and in every place. Such a course would close the ears of the people at the outset, and frustrate the end sought… He [Paul] also gave due honor to the ceremonial law, showing that Christ was the one that instituted the whole Jewish economy of sacrificial service. After dwelling upon these things, evincing that he had a clear understanding of them himself,… He approached the Gentiles, not by exalting the law at first, but by exalting Christ, and then showing the binding claims of the law. Canvasser, December 11, 1890


Paul associated with feast keepers at feast times. Not, however, as a religious requirement, but to avoid the divisive charges that the Sanhedrin was craving to place on him, and to minimize the resistance of Judaizing teachers, clearly sent out to infiltrate the churches he had established.

He also saw these feasts as special opportunities to broaden his influence when large numbers of people were gathered together.


Paul greatly desired to reach Jerusalem before the passover, as he would thus have an opportunity to meet the people who came from all parts of the world to attend the feast.”  Sketches from the Life of Paul, p. 194.


In spite of his precautions, compromise and friendliness, even the Christian leaders at Jerusalem found fault with his methods. Ibid., pp. 208-209 This caused him much pain. He worked as closely as possible with them, giving in to the decisions of the Council.

“Paul did not bind himself nor his converts to the ceremonies and customs of the Jews, with their varied forms, types, and sacrifices; for he recognized that the perfect and final offering had been made in the death of the Son of God… Ibid., p. 105.


Many contend today that Paul had a passionate desire to “keep this feast,” which confirms and affirms keeping that part of the ceremonial law. One example is:


“But bade them farewell, saying, I must by all means keep this feast that cometh in Jerusalem: but I will return again unto you, if God will. And he sailed from Ephesus” (Acts 18:21).

But the translation is incorrect.

Oldest manuscripts show the phrase “I must by all means keep this feast that cometh in Jerusalem” to be an added phrase which was not in the original text. This is correctly shown in the many translations which eliminate it (e.g., NIV, NRS, NET, ASV).


Our attention is also drawn to the Philippian believers. Paul’s affection for that church was deep. This would be his last time seeing them. Those days during the Passover period would afford special fellowship.


“At Philippi Paul tarried to keep the passover. Only Luke remained with him, the other members of the company passing on to Troas to await him there. The Philippians were the most loving and true-hearted of the apostle's converts, and he enjoyed a peaceful and happy visit with them during the eight days of the feast.”  Ibid., p. 196.


Then “we sailed away from Philippi after the days of unleavened bread, and came unto them to Troas in five days; where we abode seven days” (Acts 20:6).

As previously observed, Paul wouldn’t burden the Gentile believers with feast keeping. For the sake of any Jews who might continue to follow this Passover/Unleavened Bread spring celebration, Paul would delay his travels. {Barnes, Power Bible CD 5.2, Acts 20:16}.   But he was eager to be on his way to Jerusalem for Pentecost: “For Paul had determined to sail by Ephesus, because he would not spend the time in Asia: for he hasted, if it were possible for him, to be at Jerusalem the day of Pentecost” (Acts 20:16).[14] That was one of the required festivals, and many opportunities to mingle and teach the people would be there. Nowhere is Paul elevating the keeping of the feasts as a Christian requirement. It was a time of fellowship and a time to support the Jewish people who continued those rites. The Judaizers who were in virtually every church were thus deprived of feast-keeper criticism against Paul.

Another text that concerns feast-keeping is in Paul’s letter to the Corinthian believers: “Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth” (I Corinthians 5:6-8).


The article “the” is not in the original. The setting is pastoral. “It does not mean the paschal supper here – for that had ceased to be observed by Christians.” { Barnes, Op. cit., I Corinthians 5:8}  It was in the intent or spirit of that celebration that the Corinthian believers were to put away evil. That was a major burden of Paul for that troubled church. As you eliminate leaven, representing sin, remove it from your lives in the spirit of the Feast of Unleavened Bread.


Paul’s letters to those believers are the most extensive in the New Testament. Christ is our Passover. His merits were to be a continual source of cleansing and restoration. Paul’s invitation is to engage in a continuous spiritual Passover. { Family Bible Notes on 5:8.}


There is nothing in Paul’s writings or narrative relative to worship to show that he considered the feasts obligatory, sacred or part of the Christian dispensation. In a greater exposition, Paul discusses the transition between the dispensations (cf. Psalm 110:1-7) elevated in the book of Hebrews:


“For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law” (Hebrews 7:12).

“The context requires us to understand it only of the law so far as it was connected with the Levitical priesthood. This could not apply to the ten commandments – for they were given before the institution of the priesthood; nor could it apply to any other part of the moral law, for that was not dependent on the appointment of the Levitical priests. But the meaning is, that since a large number of laws – constituting a code of considerable extent and importance – was given for the regulation of the priesthood, and in reference to the rites of religion, which they were to observe or superintend, it followed that when their office was superseded by one of a wholly different order, the law which had regulated them vanished also, or ceased to be binding. This was a very important point in the introduction of Christianity, and hence it is that it is so often insisted on in the writings of Paul. The argument to show that there had been a change or transfer of the priestly office, he proceeds to establish in the sequel.” { Power BibleCD, Barnes on Hebrews 7:12.}


Paul goes on: “Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life” (Hebrews 7:16). The carnal law refers to one related to the “flesh” or outward observances. The new priesthood, laws and covenant agreements did not relate to liturgy or calendars. By an oath (Hebrews 7:21) and by Christ’s death becoming a surety (Hebrews 7:22-23) for us – the only law that transcends the Cross is the one that can be written in our minds and in our hearts (Hebrews 8:10). This is a profound doctrinal issue!


The law of rites and worship rituals, which were shadows of heavenly things, is changed or disannulled (Hebrews 7:12, 18-19). Within that logic and context Paul had already admonished the Colossians that the feasts were only shadows (Colossians 2:16-17). Long ago God reminded His people in rebellion (time of Manasseh – 687–642 B.C.) that there were two laws. One “that I commanded them” (Decalogue) and “the law that my servant Moses commanded them” (“law of Moses” – II Kings 21:8). Only the Decalogue with its clarifying statues remains.


The highest relationship with Christ is appealed to by Paul. Within one of his great invitations he makes it clear that feast keeping could even be a barrier to full fellowship with Christ. (See “Paul's Christ-Centered Appeal – Colossians 2:14-17” at website, under Articles.) This amazing apostle raises his voice against “liturgical Christianity,” which detracts from our focus on Jesus. The transition in worship dependency from an earthly to a heavenly priesthood invites the deepest of study.


Site Sponsors


Adventist Single?
Meet other Single
Adventists here:
Join Free

USA members:

Support AO by
using this link:


© 2017   Created by Clark P.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service