Calvinistic Soteriology Vs. Arminianism
While John Calvin was a mighty force in God's push against the Papacy, he made a great error in promoting God's character.
Calvinistic Soteriology is basically the Calvinistic understanding of salvation. John Calvin sought to uphold God's sovereignty by nullifying any human effort in the salvation process - including choice. John Calvin maintained that if we have any choice in the matter, then God's sovereignty is compromised. Therefore, God arbitrarily chooses who will be saved and who will be lost. This, he concluded, makes God sovereign - because if some were to die and it was not God's choice, then God would not be not in full control.
We have to remember that it was a very different age.
Men and women did not err for too long on Christian standards. Once the truth was revealed, many were fervent in denying self and taking up their cross - daily!
However, in this post-modernist age, self is exalted and we are more interested in how we "feel" than in what God says.
God's standards take second place to our desires as we use His grace as a ticket to hedonism - and so we inevitably created the 'Once saved, always saved' theology.
Arminianism is the challenge to Calvinism.
Jacobus Arminius challenged his teacher - Theodore Beza - the son-in-law and student of Calvin himself. The challenge was this - if we have no choice, how can there be a valid judgement?
Seventh-Day Adventists are Arminian Christians. We believe that God died to save all, but not all will humble themselves to respond to the call. We believe in a fair judgement and a judgement time message.
What are your thoughts with regard to the issue of choice and how does it shape your Christian walk and your view of God?
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Leslie Ann on -
Eddie
You know I was just wondering about John Calvin and Jacobus Arminius and the info you posted on their theory is there any biblical back up to their theory? How did they arrived at this or was it just their opinion.
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Permalink Reply by Leslie Ann on
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Eddie
I research both theories and found biblical texts to support both and I must say both sides sounds interesting.It is up to the holy spirit to teach us the truth.
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Permalink Reply by Eddie-Lee on -
John Calvin may have had biblical text to make his case 'seem' plausible, but Jacobus Arminius had a complete study.
John Calvin's theory cannot answer the judgement question.
And I will put the question to you - if God arbitrarily chooses some to be saved and some to be lost how can there be a valid judgement?
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Permalink Reply by Leslie Ann on
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Eddie
Now I am just speculating with this and having an open mind and seeing things differently from the bible point. I cannot answer that question because i cannot think like God. Our ways are not his ways and our thoughts his thoughts. But I know he is God and he could do whatever he pleases. If perhaps this is the case and we do not really have a hand in our salvation then remember this world was created as a lesson book for the universe so we have to look at the broad picture. From what i have read both theories have bible text to support their point and both sounds good and seems as it is but everything is not as it seems or sounds. We can stick with what adventist believes or we can let the spirit guide.
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Permalink Reply by Eddie-Lee on
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Sorry Leslie Ann; Let me make it clearer.
If God chose someone to be lost and then burned them in hell fire for His choice, does this seem like a God of love to you?
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Permalink Reply by Leslie Ann on
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Eddie
Well no it does not seem like a God of love. But look at this text
Proverbs 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
Now let us leave our logic out of this and just let the bible prove this ok.
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Permalink Reply by Eddie-Lee on
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Amen!
Look at the text - He made (creation) the wicked *He didn't MAKE them wicked*
The text is saying that God created us all. EVEN the wicked (just in case people were wondering) The wicked will see that evil day, not because God made (tempted or caused) them to be wicked, but because the chose to be wicked.
"Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. Do not err, my beloved brethren. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning." - James 1: 13 - 17
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Permalink Reply by Leslie Ann on
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Eddie
I believe you did not explain that text good. It simply says that God created all things for himself meaning that everything is for his plan of redemption. Then it further states even the wicked for the day of evil this means that because of his foreknowledge he knew who will be wicked and he created them still for that purpose which is also for his plan of redemption. So in short everyone was created to do just what they are doing nothing is by chance or fate.
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Permalink Reply by Eddie-Lee on
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True Leslie Ann,
He did create people knowing that they would be wicked - but He did not *make* them wicked. (make them do wickedness)
Nothing is by chance - but things are by choice.
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Permalink Reply by Bree on
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Proverbs16:4 in Hebrew translation
Kol Päal y'hwäh laMaánëhû w'gam-räshä l'yôm rääh
Kol= whole, all any or every
Paal = to do or make
Y'hwah= Jehovah
La= to, for toward, belonging in regart to according to,
Maanehu= givee a reply, to answer, give account for
w= and, therefore, also, then, yet
gamrasha= gather bad person, assemblage,
l'yome=belonging to a day, regarding to a day (sunrise/sunset)
raab= bad, natural or moral evil
Proverbs 16:4 The Lord hath made all things to {give account unto} Him; yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
Now lets put it all together in context to gain a true understanding of God's message:
Proverbs 16:1-7 So saith the Lord:
The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the Lord.
All the ways of a man are clean in his own eyes; but the Lord weigeth the spriits.
Commit thy works unto the LORD and thy thoughts shall be established.
The LORD hath mad all things {Hebrew word Maanehu=to give account to or answer to} himself (Lord); yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
Everyone that is proud in heart is an abomination to the LORD: though hand join in hand, he shall not be unpunished.
By mercy and truth inequity is purged: and by the fear of the Lord men depart from evil
When a man's ways please the LORD, he maketh even his enemies to be at peace with him.
Leslie...I hope this will help you understand what God's message to all of us is in Proverbs 16:4 a little bit more .
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Permalink Reply by Leslie Ann on
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BreeR
Thanks for you help brother but I do not get your point can you explain a little more.
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Leslie if you look at the whole instead of just a selected verse it will become clear what God is saying.
verses 1-3 God is telling man (us) that He is the one who provides the knowlege that we keep in our hearts and speak of.
That man should not depend on themselves (selfrighteousness) to do these things thinking they are right with the Lord. Think Pharasees who in their own minds felt they were righteous before the Lord because they kept their religious traditions and knew the scriptures OT by heart. God is warning us against this because He looks to the heart of man.
Leslie what Proverbs 16:4 means is that we will all be held accountable to; will answer to God for our wicked ways.
The verses that follow clearly shows that God is requesting man to turn to him and not to rely on their own understanding and self righteousness. To turn away from sin because sin will not go unpunished. God promises the sinner mercy and truth and concludes by promising that the man who turns from sin will find peace even among his enemies.
In other words this verse means the opposite of your initial thought.
Its a warning to sinners that all their wicked ways will have to be answered for to God.
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