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The sixth commandments says:  THOU SHALL NOT kill

I find this very difficult to  respond especially if you are the one killing 

someone,  you do not even know.   it would be nice to have an open discussion 

on this issue, and to see how  adventist  will respond to this  delicate issue about killing.

sir james

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This is something we should pray about, especially as parents.  Talk to any veteran who suffers from PTSD how violence affected their mind.  Taking a life, even justified by our legal system because of defense of life is a very hard thing in many ways.  Defense does not always mean killing.  There are bean bag rounds and other shot gun shell loads for shotguns, there are pepper sprays. Doors, locks, Cameras and training should be considered.  At a time when violent home invasions are happening this something to think about.  

I consider every means.  Doors. locks,. security alarms.  However, police response time can be minutes away when seconds count.  For that reason, I do own firearms, and have taught my wife how to shoot and handle them.  I am in the process of doing that for the rest of my family.

HMMMM! So those who lock doors, have alarms, own defensive tools. (Shot gun loaded with bean bags or rock salt) are weak minded, faithless, immature, and murderous.  

You are right that was out of line.  Respectfully, people should not assume defense equals killing or that defenders are murderous.  People allude to this and it is not right.  

"Would it be possible to kill in self-defense, not guilty of murder under the law of the land, and still be guilty of murder under God's law?"   Yes. 

Example one:  I am surprised by a burglar that has a knife, we struggle and I kill him with his own knife.  **Not guilty

Example two:  I know that someone will show up to steal from me so I wait for them with a shotgun and when they show up I shoot them without warning.  **Under civil law I may not be found guilty but under Gods Law I would be guilty because God would know my intent. 

The problem I have is that most people assume that gun owners are example number two.  Some are most are not. 

GOD IS SO GREAT AND GRACIOUS TO US AND UNDERSTAND WHERE WE ARE AT IN OUR PRECIOUS WALK WITH HIM

ideally in a mature Christian walk when literally changing from GLORY to GLORY

seeing the enemy as God calls us to - we would see them as infinite worth whom JESUS died for

Your salvation is secure in JESUS

chances are high that the person threatening your life isnt saved and you will literately blow him or her away to hell without the opportunity to hear of GODs love for them and the resulting repentance

o my!

say it not so!

God gives us the supernatural heart to love the person insulting/hurting/persecuting'murdering us

God demostrated that kind of LOVE on the CROSS and call us to do the same thing if needed

we are in His hands

He is our LORD!!!!!!!!!!!!

amazing walk and gives us the GRACE for all things we find ourselves in

hot hot hot

Man of Flour 

You say that strong man or woman is immature to defend a family or children.

A Christian who does not step between the evil person and the defensles is not a mature Christian. To defend is not murder.

You and the person who started this thread stand as judges over those who would do as God commanded them to do and have said they have murder in their heart because they would defend the weak.  How do you know they would murder. 

Does a father or mother day dream about a thief or rapist breaking into the home so they can blast with a gun or stab them with a knife.  Absolutely ridiculous and silly. No they want safety and feel violated if something like this happens. 

You say that they should stand and watch as an evil person slaps, hits, kicks, does violence, rapes in the sanctuary of the home and offer nothing but prayer and beg and plead.

Did Christ ever beg or plead. Did Jesus ever ask the father please please make the devil play nice. No! My Jesus rules with a rod of Iron.  He drives them that steal out of the temple with zeal so that the weak can fall asleep in his arms and hear his teaching.

Revelation 21:8

 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

Proverbs 28:1

The wicked flee when no one pursues, but the righteous are bold as a lion.

Proverbs 29:25

The fear of man lays a snare, but whoever trusts in the Lord is safe.

2 Timothy 4:16 

At my first defense no one came to stand by me, but all deserted me. May it not be charged against them!

Joshua 7:5 

And the men of Ai killed about thirty-six of their men and chased them before the gate as far as Shebarim and struck them at the descent. And the hearts of the people melted and became as water. (The melted of heart were mature Christians?)

Are we advocating cowardice?

"Ideally in a mature Christian walk"  as in those who would kill in defense of self are the opposite as in immature and not ideal.

Exodus 20:1-18, "

And God spoke all these words:

“I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

“You shall have no other gods before[a] me.

“You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God,punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.

“You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.

“Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day.Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

12 “Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the Lord your God is giving you.

13 You shall not murder.

14 “You shall not commit adultery.

15 “You shall not steal.

16 “You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.

17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”

 

Matthew 16:25 hints on what approach to take.

Our aim in self-defence should not be to kill but if the aggressor  dies...If someone breaks in your home to steal stuff and you shoot him in the back then that's a criminal offence; you should be charged as a criminal. 

If someone is stupid enough to bust through my front door, they are going right back out one way or the other.  

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