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Me too Rose:)

The Irony here is that it's this kind of comdemnation that drives people to commit suicide. They feel they are never good enough because others tell them that, so they feel what is the point. And yes that happens all the time people's words are very destructive to others.Not to mention how many leave God because his "people" drive them away.

Timbertwo

Now I do not know what drives people to suicide in your part of the world but I will let you know what drives them to do this here in Trinidad and Tobago.

Men who murders their wives and children to escape conviction and jail they afterwards take their own life.

People who are diagonosed with Aids their usually take their own life.

People who are caught in a sordid affair like example older men with young girls.

Love relationships which has gone sour.

Rejection by a love partner.

Very rare in the least case here in Trinidad you will ever find someone taking their life based on metal illness or depression.

Again I will say a person who commits suicide do not know God.

now thats a scary thought!

Ronald thanks my brother I appreciate it.

I have no problem with Rose saying what she wants it does not bother me one bit I am way over those things my brother. Let her say what she wants its a practice for me cause very soon I will be persecuted and it will be by the household of faith. 

When Jesus is in the vessel we can smile at the storm my brother keep the faith.

Rose,
Please do not characterize other members in this way. It does not treat others with Christ's love and it goes against our Site Rules & Guidelines.
God bless,
Clark

MFG....bravo he showed me a better way too!

@ Man Flower Glow :  " a lot of people are going to heaven without perfection achieved here " Please do not help the Devil deceive God's people because their blood will be in your hands.

It is written: Matt.5:48  Be you therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

If we were defective in character, we could not pass the gates that mercy has opened to the obedient; for justice stands at the entrance, and demands holiness, purity, in all who would see God. Were justice extinct, and were it possible for divine mercy to open the gates to the whole race, irrespective of character, there would be a worse condition of disaffection and rebellion in heaven than before Satan was expelled. The peace, happiness, and harmony of heaven would be broken up. The change from earth to heaven will not change men’s characters; the happiness of the redeemed in heaven results from the characters formed in this life, after the image of Christ. The saints in heaven will first have been saints on earth." {6BC 1072.2}

I know this is an old discussion, but I have to resurrect it:

this statement, 'alot of people are going to be in heaven without perfection achieved here' is very wrong MFG. perfection, also called santification is a process and we are counted righteous on the merits of Christ's righteousness. However, we have a part to play, if the Holy spirit convicts me of my sin, I am to repent, and sin no more i.e. true repentance involves a turning away of that sin, not asking for forgivenss and dwelling in it.

no cherrished sin is forgiven, no matter how much we ask for forgiveness if we do not turn from it.

Lets look at what the bible standard is:

we are to be blameless, holy, perfect, sinning no more, reflecting the image and character of Christ. That is the standard, based on this verses and many more:

Perfection; Mat_5:48, Joh_17:23, 2Co_12:9, Eph_4:13, Col_1:28, Col_4:12, 2Ti_3:17, Heb_12:23, Heb_13:21, Jas_1:4, Jas_3:2, 1Pe_5:10
Holiness: Rom_11:16, Rom_12:1, 1Co_3:17, Eph_1:4, Eph_5:27, Col_1:22, Col_3:12, 1Th_5:27, Tit_1:8, 1Pe_1:15, 1Pe_2:5, 1Pe_2:9, 1Pe_3:5, 2Pe_1:21, Rev_18:20, Rev_22:11
Blameless: Eph_1:4, Eph_5:27, 1Co_1:8, Php_2:15, 1Th_5:23, 1Ti_3:2, 1Ti_3:10, 1Ti_5:7, Tit_1:7, 2Pe_3:14
Sin no more: Joh_5:14, Joh_8:11

Let me share something on perfection here:

In the Bible, we have people whom God testified about and said they were perfect, holy and blameless: Noah (Gen_6:9), and Job (Job_1:1, Job_1:8,Job_2:3)
1Ki_8:61 give us the definition of what is to be perfect. It says, ‘let your heart therefore be perfect with the LORD our God, to walk in his statutes, and to keep his commandments...'
The Lord requires us to be perfect, holy and without blame. To sin no more. Jesus commanded those whom He had healed and forgiven sin to 'go and sin no more' (Joh_5:14, Joh_8:11). Remember the saints of Rev_19:10 kept the commandment of God. Again, Jesus teaches that keeping the commandments is an outward manifestation that we love Him (Joh_15:10, Joh_14:15). Many other verses ask us to keep God's commandments, but to what extent are we to keep these commandments? We are to keep all the commandments. It is written that if anyone breaks one of the commandments, he has broken all (Jas_2:10) and there is a penalty to this (Mat_5:19). In fact, 1Ti_6:14 gives charge that we should 'keep the commandment without spot, un-rebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ'
So, it is true, we are to keep all commandments, and we are to be perfect and holy, sinning no more. That is the requirement. But God is merciful and just and full of grace. He does not ask us to do anything that we cannot do. He always makes a provision to fulfil His requirement in us. In this, His requirements are placed within reach to all and they become promises to those who trust in Him.
We first have a perfect example, who is Jesus Christ. He was in the likeness of sinful flesh (Rom_8:3), and overcame sin in this sinful flesh. He was in the likeness of His brethren i.e. in the flesh of man, and was tempted in all manner as we are tempted, yet without sin (Heb_2:17, Heb_4:15). it was not impossible for Christ to sin, as in, He was not a being not capable of sinning, no. He was capable of sinning, but He chose obedience (temptation is normal in every ones life and we cannot choose whether to be tempted or not- unless we deliberately put ourselves in a tempting situation e.g. an alcoholic keeping alcohol in his house- however, to sin or not to sin is a choice i.e. to obey or not to obey is a choice, and Christ had this choice).  He was in this same flesh we have, that has no inclination to be pure, but he was not carnally minded, which is enmity with godliness (Rom_8:7). Instead, He brought His mind into subjection and obeyed, and we are thus called to have the same mind which was in Christ (Php_2:5-8). A mind of obedience and humility, that is capable of submitting to God's authority.
How then did He overcome sin? How did He (Jesus) keep all commandments? How did He remain perfect in a sinful world? He was submissive and obedient to God (Php_2:5-8). Heb_5:8 actually tells us that Jesus 'learned obedience by the things which He suffered' i.e. obedience was not inborn or natural to Christ; He learned it and was made perfect, just as we can learn (In the same manner, patience will work perfection in us (james 1:3-4,)). And the manner in which He obeyed, is recorded of as being obedience even unto death (Php_2:8), He is set as our example (1Pe_2:21). In like manner, if we submit to Him, we share His victory in overcoming sin (Rom_6:6). He also says that He did not do anything of Himself, but rather, He did everything as directed by His father (Joh_8:28). He was in perfect obedience and total surrender. Also, the cross was so heavy and the burden of sin so great before Him, that at some point He was so sorrowful and wished He would not suffer the death of the cross, but still, He obeyed (Luk_22:42). It was not easy for Him. He went to pray at Gethsemane, He shared His feelings with us (that we may know that when He obeyed, it was not a walk in the park). He said he was, ‘exceedingly sorrowful, unto death' (Mat_26:38). Isa_53:1-9 depicts His life as one of grief and sorrow. He sacrificed His happiness and it was a struggle for Him to fulfil His mission, yet in all He found pleasure in fulfilling His Father's will. He did not do anything by His divine power, but He did all in total submission to God (1Co_11:3).
So in this, we learn that Jesus was perfect not by his own might or power, but by total surrender and perfect obedience to God. Remember He was filled with the Holy Spirit at baptism. We know the role of the Holy spirit is to help us attain perfection( 2Th_2:13, 1Pe_1:22,1Jn_4:6 ), and He (the holy spirit) was also in Jesus who was perfect, for the scripture record that God did not give Jesus the spirit by measure (Joh_3:31-36) i.e. the Spirit was pour out into Him in all its fullness.
We are therefore not to attain perfection by our own might, but by following the example of Jesus (the foundation of our faith 1Co_3:11), we are to totally surrender to God and we will learn obedience through the experiences we daily encounter and will grow on towards perfection (Heb_6:1). 1Pe_2:21-25 describes the perfect example that Christ left for us to follow in His steps.
To prove that indeed we can be holy in this sinful world, notice that Dan_8:24 speak of a kingdom that shall destroy the holy people, and Dan_12:7 also talk of scatter the power of the holy people. These are the same who had the patience of the saints in Rev_19:10, elsewhere in Rev_14:5, these people are described as having no guile: for they are without fault.
The standard of perfection and holiness is to keep the commandment without spot and without rebuke, as highlighted in 1Ti_6:13-14, and the assurance that we can attain this is in that Christ is able to keep us from falling, and to present us faultless.. (Jud_1:24). Again, Christ is able to save to the uttermost (Heb_7:25). This same Jesus intercedes for us and the Holy Spirit also helps our infirmities and intercedes for us (Rom_8:26-27). How then can we not attain perfection if God Himself wills to make us perfect, Jesus his son is our high priest making intersession for us and the Holy Spirit is helping our infirmities and interceding for us as well? The trinity is united in this, and we are even assured that we will be conformed to the image of Jesus, for He has predestined, called, justified and glorified us (Rom_8:29-30). We again are promised a transformation into the character of God by beholding Christ (2Co_3:17-18).
Remember that if God sets a requirement for us, He gives provision also for attainment of that requirement, thus turning the requirement into a promise if we choose to trust and follow His counsel. Following this, God requires perfection in us and He has made the provision for us to attain this perfection. This perfection is therefore a promise to all who will surrender to God and be obedient to His directions.
Having proved that it is possible to attain perfection through total surrender and obedience to God, and that only holy people will have the patience of saints (which is those who have kept the commandment of God and have the faith/testimony of Jesus as revealed to them by the Spirit of prophecy), Job, who God testifies of to be a Blameless man (Job_1:1) cautions us against considering ourselves as perfect (Job_9:20-21),for only God justifies (Rom_8:30) and His (God) testimony is greater than that of man (1Jn_5:9). In fact, as God reveals Himself to us, we behold His righteousness and our unrighteousness is revealed in its true form. We realize that our righteousness is as filthy rags (Isa_64:6). This causes us to realize our need for a saviour and we cry in sincerity with Isaiah, 'woe unto me of unclean lips' (Isa_6:5). We cease to be self-righteous and self-sufficient, we are humbled and our hearts are contrite and repentant. This is the condition we are to come to Jesus in for He has promised that a bruised reed He will not break (Isa_42:3, Mat_12:20), and He is near to those with a broken spirit and He saves those with a contrite heart (Psa_34:18). This is how we grow from glory to glory into His image, as we behold His perfect righteousness (2Co_3:18).
The question now is, how do we surrender and how do we learn obedience?
David writes, 'your word have I hidden in my heart that I may not sin against you.'(Psa_119:11), again, in Psa_119:9, we are assured that it is only by taking heed to God's word that we are able to cleanse our ways. From our Perfect example, Jesus Christ, we are taught how we can overcome temptation if we have the word of God in our hearts. When the devil was tempting Jesus in the wilderness, Jesus overcame him by quoting the scripture in its right context. His reply was, 'it is written' (Mat_4:1-10). He was firmly grounded in the truth, and He understood the scripture that He would not be deceived even when the devil used the word of God to bring temptation. He (Jesus) desires that we also be grounded in the word of God. He tells us that the scriptures testify of him (Joh_5:39). How is it really that the scripture testify of Jesus? It is the word of God i.e. it is God's testimony of his son. The scripture, from Genesis to revelation speak of the story of redemption. It is the living word (Heb_4:12), and it has to come alive in our heart for us to experience its transforming power. Joh_1:1-4 is in agreement with this; speaking of Jesus, we are told that the word became flesh and dwelt amongst us. Yes, Jesus is the word made flesh, i.e. the life he lived, his mission and what he now is doing is what the scripture is all about. Believing the scripture, is believing that Jesus is the son of God that takes away sin. This is the truth that Jesus wants us to believe, and he actually promised us that the Spirit of truth will guide us into all truth (Joh_16:13). The truth here referred is the word of God, which sanctifies us (Joh_17:17), this truth is Jesus, who is the way, the truth and the life (Joh_14:6), the same Jesus that sanctifies us (Heb_13:12).
How then do we study the scripture to see Christ as revealed?
All scripture is given by inspiration of God (2Ti_3:16), it is the unsearchable mind of God that only He can reveal. Thus the scripture is to be studied prayerfully and the Holy Spirit, who inspired the authors, will reveal the truths and bring into remembrance all that is taught in it (Joh_16:13). Again, we are assured that the scripture sanctifies in that 2Ti_3:16-17 tells us it is profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction, for instruction in righteousness, that we may be perfect.
We cannot obey what we do not know; neither can we surrender to one whom we do not know. Total surrender and perfect obedience to God is only attainable by having a personal relationship with God. This is through studying the scripture consistently, by praying always and singing praise and worshiping God. This is what the Sabbath was meant for. A day to remember who created us and to whom we belong, that we may know Him and live in accordance to His will, reflecting His image (Gen_1:26), and the purpose of man, which is his whole duty is to fear God and keep His commandments (Ecc_12:13).

when u struggle with  such deep depression u dont think clearly

our brain is a biological organ and subject to synapses not firing right

oxygen to the frontal lobes can be impaired

anxiety from fight or flight hormones surging

melatonin levels low

 so many variables in just the right chemistry alone

and o dear

not to mention family, life, job pressure, bullying ,crime.finances, church,abandonment,divorce loved one's death, ect

 

GOD TRULY KNOWS AND UNDERSTANDS EACH AND EVERY CIRCUMSTANCE

praise GOD!

\i/

it is ok to go through all this that you are mentioning here. Temptation is a portion of all who live on this earth.

But we are not to result to suicide. Faith in God, resting in God makes even the unbearable moments bearable. It is from this understanding that the apostle wrote, 'I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.'

also, remember it is impossible to please God without faith. Faith is actually knowing that the same creative power in God's word displayed in Genesis is the same power in the words,

'Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?  Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?' Mat 6:24-33. 

Here we are taught how to trust in God for 'for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.'

If we all learnt what is teaught here, there would be no suicide, nor depression cases. 

Right on, MFG.

God knows things folks commenting on this blog don't know.

We have an amazing God!! :)

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