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 "God suffered him to fall under the power of Satan......hid him in the grave from those who were constantly drawing him from the truth"

" I saw that William Miller erred as he was soon to enter the heavenly Canna, in suffering his influence to go against the truth. Others led him to this; others must account for it. But the angels watch the precious dust of this servant of God, and he will come forth at the sound of the last trump." EW 258.

Question: does the bible teach that other will take account for our sins. 2nd, How did she know William Miller would be saved for sure, before his sins had been "blotted out" in the investigative judgment.

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Hello Dave

There was some persecution of religions in the mid to late 19 century, but Adventist did not suffer significant persecution and were allowed to evangelize and flourish. Some of the Milleriters were  disfellowshiped because of their belief of Christ return in 1844. However, hangings and mobs were more associated with the birth and growth of Mormonism.


Herbert Leon Bryan:

"Salvation by works in not a protestant belief"

All the verses I quoted say plainly that God judges us according to our works.  Not if we have more good works than bad works, but if we do what God said.  If we repent, and do all that we can to overcome.  If we choose not to do what God tells us, we are lost.  Our decisions determine our destiny.

No one said our works are what supplies saving grace.  This is supplied by God.  It is His work that saves us, but in order to receive the benefits of His work, we have to do something to show our response.

Acts. 2:37 Now when they heard [this], they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men [and] brethren, what shall we do? 

2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Every time someone wants something from God, He tells them what to do, to receive it.  This is seen in all the hearings in John, and in every miracle that was done by old testament prophets.  Every miracle was in response to doing what the prophet tells the person to do.

This is not a confusing subject.

Herbert Leon Bryan:

"God is referring to shorteing the life of man, not removing the Holy Spirit from those who want it."

Gen. 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also [is] flesh....

Striving is not animating bodies with life.  Striving is pleading:

Jer 30:13  There is none to plead thy cause

H1777 (deen doon), found 24 times, usually translated "judge", except Jer 30:13, "plead".  Ecc 6:10, "contend".  2 Sam. 19:9, "strife".  Gen. 6:3, "strive"

Another word for "judge", is H8199, (shaw-fat), found 182 times, usually translated "judge", except a few, including these 2:

Is. 66:16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.

Jer. 25:31 A noise shall come [even] to the ends of the earth; for the LORD hath a controversy with the nations, he will plead with all flesh; he will give them [that are] wicked to the sword, saith the LORD.

This is the hour of God's judgment, when He pleads, and strives with all flesh.


Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal; their days will be a hundred and twenty years."

Reading the bible to capture phrases which appear to have a connection to make a point is interesting, but it does lead to serious error.

I guess you can read it anyway you want. But, the consensus in Christianity is what I currently believe.


"Consensus in Christianity" exalts the Pope as the Vicar of Christ, having the authority to change the Sabbath to Sunday, and that God tortures "immortal souls" for eternity.  The consensus now is to unite denominations, together with the Pope, to take over the government, in the name of Jesus, and pass Sunday laws, enforcing the Mark of the Beast, and to attempt to murder all of God's people, so that everyone will be enthralled to the Pope, through consensus to his supremacy.  This final attempt to eradicate God's faithful will bring the wrath of God upon them.

    "Through the two great errors, the immortality of the soul and Sunday sacredness, Satan will bring the people under his deceptions. While the former lays the foundation of spiritualism, the latter creates a bond of sympathy with Rome. The Protestants of the United States will be foremost in stretching their hands across the gulf to grasp the hand of spiritualism; they will reach over the abyss to clasp hands with the Roman power; and under the influence of this threefold union, this country will follow in the steps of Rome in trampling on the rights of conscience."  {GC 588.1}  

Luke  6:26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.

2 Tim.  4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 

4:4 And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

I'm sorry you have chosen the consensus of popular error, instead of the Truth provided by the "little flock".

Amen Rush

straight to the point, its well written.

Hello Rush

Perhaps you have an agenda for what is different and unique rather than what is correct.

I therefore, the prisoner in the Lord, beseech you to walk worthily of the calling wherewith you were called, with all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; giving diligence to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body, and one Spirit, even as also you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is over all, and through all, and in all (Ephesians 4:1-6).

There is grave danger in seeking superiority in religion. It causes one to skip over text and meaning to prove points. It allows one to look over the context of a verse to meet the definition that supports their agenda. For example, you and others seem to return to all things Catholic because that is your Devil, rather than looking for the widespread influence of the Devil throughout all churches, including your own. By protecting your own traditions and trying to gain truth through uniqueness you miss the powerful manipulations of the Devil in your own life.

Secondly, what I have proposed regarding Genesis 6:3 is the accepted SDA interpretation of this verse, so I am not quite sure how you  are reading your bible, but you may want to take a second look.


You are still insisting that God's spirit pleading with men, is simply animating them with life, and not calling them to repentance?  And now you say it's the "accepted SDA teaching"?  Since when?

     "God Himself gave the shut-door message to Noah: {1SM 63.3}
"My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years" (Genesis 6:3). {1SM 63.4}
There was a shut door in the days of Abraham. Mercy ceased to plead with the inhabitants of Sodom, and all but Lot, with his wife and two daughters, were consumed by the fire sent down from heaven. {1SM 63.5}
There was a shut door in Christ's day. The Son of God declared to the unbelieving Jews of that generation, "Your house is left unto you desolate" (Matthew 23:38). {1SM 63.6}
Looking down the stream of time to the last days, the same infinite power proclaimed through John: {1SM 63.7}
"These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth" (Revelation 3:7). {1SM 63.8}
I was shown in vision, and I still believe, that there was a shut door in 1844. All who saw the light of the first and second angels' messages and rejected that light, were left in darkness. And those who accepted it and received the Holy Spirit which attended the proclamation of the message from heaven, and who afterward renounced their faith and pronounced their experience a delusion, thereby rejected the Spirit of God, and it no longer pleaded with them. {1SM 63.9}


".. giving diligence to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body, and one Spirit.."

You're suggesting this one body, is a unification of "Christians", united with the Pope?


Your evidence is a collage of propaganda that strays from reason. You are so consumed with hate and separation that it has clouded your view. Amazing Facts is a ministry that leaves the foundational focus on Christ and and emphasizes conjecture. I admit it is a very good presentation, but the ministry is based on organizational uniqueness, rather than uniqueness as Children of God.

For example

Noah's shut door was an actual shut door, that actually occurred.

The Jews were not Shut out, but rejected Christ. Yet, many Jews were converted and were saved which was Gods plan.

The Shut door of Ellen White, first was applied to all persons who rejected the 1844 message, then the IJ and the Sabbath, and finally only those in the group that rejected the light.  This appeared to be open and shut several times.

You can choose to believe what you want it is your right. But, you may want to look at the facts.



Herbert Leon Bryan:

"You are so consumed with hate and separation that it has clouded your view."

Separation is the requirement of the Gospel:

2 Cor. 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean [thing]; and I will receive you,

Acts  2:40   ...Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

Rev.  18:4  Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

And hate?

Ps. 119:104 Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.

Prov. 8:13 The fear of the LORD [is] to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.

You cannot follow the word of God, and give people a worldly religion, at the same time.  You have to choose.  Wouldn't you like to give people the truth from the Word of God, rather than just scratch their itching ears?  You would get crucified for it, but you will have fellowship with Christ, then:  "That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings...", (Phil.  3:10).

I know the love of many has grown cold, but you can take on faith the Lord offers you this fellowship.  I believe you still have a choice.  What hinders you?  What keeps you from coming out of Babylon?

Hello Rush

Then if we are separate how to we influence others? Did Christ come to earth and join the Essenes'? Did the disciples seek to separate themselves or did they spread the gospel through out the world.  God ask us to divest from the world in regards to our ambitions, but to be in the world as his influence to win others to salvation through the Grace of God. You ideas are cultish in nature, separation, fear of others ect.  You can be in the world, but not of it, and do great work for God. Or you can sequester yourself and miss out on a wonderful blessing, the choice is yours. I hope those that convinced you that this was the way to go can be buffered by the love of Christ. He is waiting to great works through you if you are willing.




"The Shut door of Ellen White, first was applied to all persons who rejected the 1844 message, then the IJ and the Sabbath, and finally only those in the group that rejected the light.  This appeared to be open and shut several times".

Is this why you throw out the baby with the bathwater?


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