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 "God suffered him to fall under the power of Satan......hid him in the grave from those who were constantly drawing him from the truth"

" I saw that William Miller erred as he was soon to enter the heavenly Canna, in suffering his influence to go against the truth. Others led him to this; others must account for it. But the angels watch the precious dust of this servant of God, and he will come forth at the sound of the last trump." EW 258.

Question: does the bible teach that other will take account for our sins. 2nd, How did she know William Miller would be saved for sure, before his sins had been "blotted out" in the investigative judgment.

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Hello Rush

How long have you been and Adventist, the IJ is part of the three angels message, (unless you are a progressive Adventist like me.)

The first angel's message is the "everlasting gospel", namely the "good news of God's infinite love". It is also a warning that the investigative judgment has begun and a call to worship the Creator of the world, specifically in the keeping of the Sabbath commandment. "The first angel's message ... calls for the restoration of true worship by presenting before the world Christ the Creator and Lord of the Bible Sabbath [which is] the sign of God's Creation."[8]

The second angel's message is a call to those in Babylon to “depart from her” (cf. Revelation 18:4). Adventists traditionally believe that Babylon represents the apostate church, which they identify as Roman Catholicism as well as Protestants who have rejected the truth. "This prophecy of Babylon's fall especially finds its fulfillment in the departure of Protestantism at large from the purity and simplicity of the everlasting gospel of righteousness by faith that once so powerfully impelled the Reformation." This explains why Adventists often aim their evangelism at Christians in other churches as well as non-Christians. "The message of the fall of Babylon ... calls on those of God's people who are still in the various religious bodies comprising Babylon to separate from them."[9] However, Adventists have also made it clear that there are currently many true believers in “Babylon” who worship God sincerely, including Roman Catholics.[10][11]

Theologian Ángel Manuel Rodríguez explains the mission of the remnant in terms of the second angel's message: "The end-time remnant is described in Revelation as having a God-given mission and a particular message to the whole world. They are to call the people of God to come out of Babylon, that is to say, to join the historical, faithful and visible end-time remnant of God.'[12]

The third angel's message is a solemn warning against observance of Sunday as a sacred day, which Adventists have historically interpreted as the mark of the beast. "Those who reject God’s memorial of creatorship—the Bible Sabbath—choosing to worship and honor Sunday in the full knowledge that it is not God's appointed day of worship, will receive the 'mark of the beast.'"[13] It should be emphasised that Adventists believe that the mark of the beast will only be received at a future date, when every person on earth is made aware of their obligation to keep the Sabbath; in other words, Christians who currently worship on Sunday do not have the mark.[14]


Explain how you think differently than what you stated above. Just where do you feel the IJ fits in, or does it.?Do you feel the Sabbath is all there is to the mark of the beast?

Your thinking on Babylon?

I'd love to have a down to earth bible study on the subject. Not arguing, just presenting of views.

I believe there is a real message in the three angles message, and a lot of room for interpretation.


Hello Keith

I don't know if you are familiar with Steve Daily, but he does an excellent job of explaining how the end time movement of the saints is ecumenical, and the move to Church State sponsored religion involves many churches which would include our own. I don't fully agree with Steve, but I think he is fairly consistent with scripture. 

The first angel is clearly the spread of the Gospel of Christ throughout the world and which is clearly evident in history.

The Second Angel decries Babylon and cautions Christians to come out of her. In my understanding Babylon would symbolize the world and religious practice that follows the ways of the prince of this world the Devil. This message points to our need to live under the direction of the Spirit and avoid the influence (wine,)  of the Devil. We as Christians are tempted to invest in this world and often fail to place our interest and our faith in the world to come. We are overcome and tempted by the visible and fail to place total Faith in the invisible God. This Angel is reminding persons of Christ to divorce themselves from the love of this world.

The Third Angel proclaims the Mark of the Beast which is to be influenced by the Devil both in thought and action. His mark appears on their foreheads (mind,) and right hand (action.) Thus, they are fully committed and controlled by the prince of the sinful world (the devil.) Those that do not accept the mark are excluded form this world. As the sinful world rejected Christ it rejects the children of the lamb who have been sealed by the Holy Spirit. The saints are sealed on their foreheads (minds,) because they have chosen to have the mind of Christ through the Spirit. There is no seal on the right hand because unlike the Devil, God does not impose His will and we have choice.  

I do not believe that any Christian has security in denomination. The only security is in Christ, and we must be sealed by the Holy Spirit and possess the mind of Christ in order to be saved. We are redeemed by his blood and through our relationship with him, not by our poor attempts to be holy (our works are nothing, all good things come from God.)

I don't condemn denominations, and Christians need to join together to serve God. But, placing the three angels message on an agenda, to meet the doctrinal requirements of the understanding of a few men is an error.

Hopefully this is not too wordy, and I would love to learn from your understanding.



Thanks Leon,

Great study, and no I am not familiar with Daily, sounds impressive. Would still like to know where you place the IJ in all of this.


"How did she know William Miller would be saved for sure, before his sins had been "blotted out" in the investigative judgment."


When the saints judge the world and the angels [in the future], that judgment won't determine their "place" will it?

I believe that the same principle applies to the "investigative judgment". It does not determine salvation or perdition. People are saved or lost, irrespective of the outcome of the "investigative judgment".

With regards to the judgment mentioned in Daniel 7 ...

"A fiery stream issued and came forth from before Him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened." (Dan 7:10)

This judgment occurs, not for God's sake, but for the sake of the millions of intelligent individuals who are already inhabiting heaven. The scene described by Daniel includes His 'ministers' and witnesses. Ten thousand times ten thousand are standing before Him, as the books of record are opened. This represents a LOT of people looking on, all taking an interest. One hundred million, at least. The judgment is set, and the books opened, for their sakes.

Note that during the time of this Pre-Advent judgment, evil and error are still described as being at work here on the earth. (Dan 7:11-12)

My point is this, the IJ is going on as we speak, had William Millers name already come up in 1845?

Otherwise how could his case have been decided? We are told the process started with Adam and goes from name to name, each name decided for saved or lost. When your name comes up your sins will be blotted out. Not before.

So in order for Ellen White to be sure he was saved, his name would have to have been approved. Does that make sense.?



Have we not just seen that the IJ is not the judgement of a person in particular. It is about cleansing the temple


The GC says the name of each individual will come up in order, from Adam till the present. Some will be accepted, some will be rejected. I'm I wrong? That's my understanding.



if you would give the page No. please

I don't have my hands on the book right now, but there is entire chapter called the Investigative Judgment in the GC. If you can't find it, I'll get the page later. I just read it last week, its very interesting.

I just read it down below, GC page 483.


Thank you Keith


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