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 "God suffered him to fall under the power of Satan......hid him in the grave from those who were constantly drawing him from the truth"

" I saw that William Miller erred as he was soon to enter the heavenly Canna, in suffering his influence to go against the truth. Others led him to this; others must account for it. But the angels watch the precious dust of this servant of God, and he will come forth at the sound of the last trump." EW 258.

Question: does the bible teach that other will take account for our sins. 2nd, How did she know William Miller would be saved for sure, before his sins had been "blotted out" in the investigative judgment.

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I understand what you're saying Keith, but like Ian suggests, I think you are mistaken about the purpose of the Investigative Judgment. It does not decide who is saved and who is lost. The judgment that occurs during the 1000 years is of the same nature. We know, I'm sure, that it does not determine who is saved or who is lost either.

Of course during the 1000 years the wicked are judged "in absentia", but their fate is already decided. The Bible teaches that the saints will judge the world. (1Cor 6:2-3.)

In the same way the Investigative Judgment does not "decide" who is saved and who is lost. The description in Daniel 7 describes [I believe,] the angels and the unfallen intelligences standing before God, engaged in a work of judgment. God knows the content of the "books", but the books are opened in heaven for the perusal of unfallen beings.

How do explain our teachings that says each name that ever believed in Jesus will be brought up. Some will be accepted, some will be rejected.

Maybe I'm wrong, but if it says some will be accepted and some rejected, is that different than saying who is saved and who is lost. Maybe I don't understand the IJ, but that's the way I have always been taught. It was very frightening to me as a child.

Keith

"Beginning with those who first lived upon the earth, our Advocate presents the cases of each successive generation, and closes with the living. Every name is mentioned, every case closely investigated. Names are accepted, names rejected. When any have sins remaining upon the books of record, unrepented of and unforgiven, their names will be blotted out of the book of life, and the record of their good deeds will be erased from the book of God's remembrance. The Lord declared to Moses: "Whosoever hath sinned against Me, him will I blot out of My book." Exodus 32:33." (Great Controversy p.483)

____________________

How do I explain our teaching on this? Yes, I will try to offer an explanation.

Keith, in my view, the close investigation mentioned here, is not necessary for God, but for those that are gathered before Him. (Dan 7:10.) The omniscient God knows who are His own.

His creatures are the ones engaged in the work of investigation and judgment, and it will be seen (in the resurrection) that their judgment conforms to God's judgment.

Yes, during the judgment names will be accepted, and names will be rejected, but God has known from the very beginning who are His and who are not His. So again, I suggest that this judgment is taking place, not in order for God Himself to decide who lives and who dies, but for His creatures to see and understand things that they have not seen and understood previously.

Stewart,

I don't understand about his creatures? Obviously they are in heaven right now doing the IJ. But who are they? I'm confused.

 

Hello Stewart

I have asked this question to many and never recieved a sufficient answer (usually it result in anger.) So I ask you, hoping not to provoke anger. Why would an all knowing God, who knew who he was going to save prior the creation of the Earth, need to go through this process of judgement. Also, if he is going to redeem those who abide in him, what actions of the righteous is he judging. Since sins or names are blotted out, when ones sins are blotted out/covered by the robe of righteousness what exactly is being judged. So I agree with you that this judgement is not for God.

When you mention creatures, or other beings, these are not mentioned in scripture, nor are they implied in the paragraph you supplied from the GC. The text secifically states "Every name is mentioned, every case closely investigated. Names are accepted, names rejected."  Which leads me to conclude that God is juding the actions of the saints to determine if they have done enough to be saved. This belief would lead one to think that we are saved by our works, taking the empahsis off of Christ. 

In my observation the Sunday law eschatological interpretion also creates the same issue. We are saved because of Saturday observance not because of our ability to abide in Christ. The bible indicates that under the new covneant we are saved by Grace, if we follow the Holy Spirit and abide (have a relationship,) with God. If we have this we can consider oursleves saved now, and we can stand on the promise (John 3:16) Thus, future judgement is for the Wicked and not of the Saints who have been redeemed.

 

Leon

Leon

Joh 14:15  If ye love me, keep my commandments.

That is abiding in Christ.

Jesus replied: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'

This is the great and first commandment

And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'

Belief in Christ is to abide in Him, following his direction (commandments,) through the innerworkings of the Holy Spirit.

On our own we cannot hope to keep his commandments, and on our own we don't understand the purpose (Spirit,) of those commands. When we know the Purpose, and are submissive to his will, then the law is no longer necessary.

That is abiding in Christ.

Leon

Hello again Leon.

You commented on my earlier post : "When you mention creatures, or other beings, these are not mentioned in scripture...".

What I was referring to, was that part in Daniel 7 which describes the judgment scene :

"A fiery stream issued and came forth from before Him [the Ancient of Days]: thousand thousands ministered unto Him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened." (Dan 7:10)

I suggest that the "ten thousand times ten thousand" are not simply passive spectators in the event being described here.

The NKJV renders the last part of the verse -- "The court was seated, and the books were opened". The Tanakh (Jewish version) and the NASB also puts it -- "The court sat and the books were opened."

The Ancient of Days is described as sitting in the preceding verse, but He does not constitute the entire "court". In my view, "the court" includes the "ten thousand times ten thousand". These are the "creatures" I referred to in my earlier post.

Hello  Stewart

 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened. 

This verse is proceeded by Christ, in his white robe, which indicates his covering of the righteous. The books, (book of life and the book of deeds.) All of the saints name are recorded in the book of life which existed before the creation of the world. Those who are not saved have their sins recorded in the book of deeds. Thus, we are saved by Grace, or condemned by our deeds. So the verse is referring to mankind rather than celestial beings who serve as an audience for our judgement.

Leon

Leon 

you said: "This verse is proceeded by Christ, in his white robe, which indicates his covering of the righteous."

This statement is erroneous. BTW can you provide us with this 'previous' verse? 

Stewart,

I have always understood the judgment of Dan. 7, to be judging the little horn, and the decision was given in favor of the saints. Am I wrong?

Keith

I do think you are wrong with regards to this, Keith. While the judgment scene of Daniel 7:9-10 is sandwiched between verses that speak about the little horn, I don't think the little horn is being judged exclusively/specifically.

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