Adventist Online

I have heard from so many people who go to many non- adventist churches for healing. They say pastors from such churches can heal them. Some adventists even go there in secret, especially if they believe they are being bewitched or demon possessed.

 

From the scriptutres we have verses like:

Matthew 7: 20, 22 - 23

7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 
 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

Also Matthew 24: 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

And Revelation 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men.

 

The question is,  Since this pastors prophess to be christians while they are not, Then those who recieve healing, is it the devil healing them or is it just a wonder????

Views: 503

Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

Amen and i Agree

It is always interesting reading various responses to signs, wonders and miracles on our forums and magazines. I am glad that people bring up the topic to discuss it.


I am not so disturbed by the fact that there are fake healings, demonic healings and people making money from the gospel. What I find more disturbing is that there are few and far in between in our churches. Jesus made a startling statement that many are yet to grasp let alone believe: "Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father." (Jn 14:12).

 

The works Jesus is talking about is without question miracles. It is no surprise that people go to other churches that need healing when there are no healing ministries within our own ranks. In many ways I think we are already deceived by thinking we are safe because we don't do those "charismatic" things. While it is easy to spend our time judging our brothers (in other denominations), maybe its time to reflect why we aren't seeing authentic works of power in our own midst!

Dear Brother Matt, grace and peace.

Who says there are no healing ministries within our own ranks?

have you never heard off  MEDICAL MISSIONARY WORK??? ....its only called the RIGHT HAND OF THE GOSPEL.

It says WORKS not MIRACLES. Study what our WORK is, that Seventh Day Adventists have been commissioned to do.

Satan's deceptions are designed to distract us.......FROM WHAT??? Our relationship with God.

Sister White is very clear on how to interpret the passage of Scripture you quoted.

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on Me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto My Father." John 14:12. By this, Christ did not mean that the disciples would make more exalted exertions than He had made, but that their work would have greater magnitude. He did not refer merely to miracle working, but to all that would take place under the agency of the Holy Spirit. "When the Comforter is come," He said, "whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, He shall testify of Me: and ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with Me from the beginning." John 15:26,27.  {AA 22.1}

Furthermore, some, God will not heal, irrespective if the obey all, or not, because God knows, that should they be healed, they would no longer walk with Him. However, so long as they suffer, they seek Him earnestly, and, should they die, they would die IN CHRIST.

Brethren, please study what the Lord's Prophetess has to say on this subject, lest ye be deceived.

(just for the record, I belonged to a Free Charismatic Evangelical Church for over 5 years)

God,in His providence and great mercy, has provided us with ALL the healing we need: HEALTH REFORM and MEDICAL MISSIONARY WORK and GOSPEL EVANGELISM. If we are obedient in these, God will do the rest, performing true miracles.

Church, wake up !!!!!

 

Thanks for your thoughts. I grew up in the church and was taught the 8 health principles and practice them to this day. I think is great that we can use simple natural health remedies in our home and ministry. I have done door to door gospel ministry and came across impossible cases. Some have been tormented by demonic spirits, others hurt in serious accidents (broken backs, necks, legs, paralized etc. others have contracted terminal diseases, others inherited stuff from drug addict parents. So, back in 1992 I came to the realization that we need more than a few health principles to reach this world.

 

Yes, Ellen White did point us in the direction of health reform and medical missionary work but unfortunately, I think it is a common mistaken notion in the church to say that is all we need. I have spent a few years studying what  Ellen White has said on the topic and found many other texts that are often ignored.

Can I point out that the part you have underlined is an interpretation of the "greater works" text from Jn 14:12. Yes, indeed it will be on a "greater magnitude" because there would be more disciples in the world doing the works of Jesus. Also, please note that she did not say miracles would not be wrought but that miracles would only be part of the things His disciple would do under the agency of the Holy Spirit. 

Now, I will share a couple of fragments that have helped me gain confidence that the Lord is still willing to work powerfully through us to help people in a dark world despite spurious works of healing.

 

Ellen G. White, Spaulding-Magan Collection, p. 89
God designs that the sick, the unfortunate, those possessed with evil spirits, shall hear his voice through us. There is something for us to do: "Arise, shine, for thy light is come, and the glory of the Lord is risen upon thee." There are needy close by us; the suffering are in our very borders. We must try to help them. By the grace of Christ, the sealed fountains of earnest, Christ-like work are to be unsealed…The time of need and necessity makes plain our great need of a present, all-powerful God, in whom is everlasting strength and in whose power we may work” (Manuscript 65b, 1898).

 

Ellen G. White, Manuscript Releases, Vol. 7, p. 388.
"These signs shall follow them that believe; In my name they shall cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover" (Mark 16:17, 18).  This is a small part of that which the Lord has revealed to me. Our lack of faith is the reason that we have not seen more of the power of God. We exercise more faith in our own working than in God's working for us.”

 

Ellen G. White, Manuscript Releases, Vol. 4, p. 113.
Those who see Christ by living faith, those who abide in Him, will have power to work miracles for His glory.”--Ms 169, 1902, p. 14.

 

Ellen G. White, The Desire of Ages, p. 823.
“This world is a vast lazar house, but Christ came to heal the sick, to proclaim deliverance to the captives of Satan. He was in Himself health and strength. He imparted His life to the sick, the afflicted, those possessed of demons. He turned away none who came to receive His healing power. He knew that those who petitioned Him for help had brought disease upon themselves; yet He did not refuse to heal them. And when virtue from Christ entered into these poor souls, they were convicted of sin, and many were healed of their spiritual disease as well as of their physical maladies. The gospel still possesses the same power, and why should we not today witness the same results?

 

Ellen G. White, The Desire of Ages, pp. 821-822.
„Jesus said, "In My name shall they cast out devils…they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover." (Mark 16:17, 18)….The disciples were to have the same power which Jesus had to heal "all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people." By healing in His name the diseases of the body, they would testify to His power for the healing of the soul (Mt 4:23; 9:6). The Saviour's commission to the disciples included all the believers. It includes all believers in Christ to the end of time.

 

Ellen G. White, Desire of Ages, p. 823.
„"These signs shall follow them that believe." This is the privilege of God's children, and faith should lay hold on all that it is possible to have as an indorsement of faith.“

 

Ellen White affirms the gospel commission and that the very same signs that followed Christ and the early believers would follow His believers today.

 

I believe the Word of God and have put it into practice. I can testify that the Gospel does have the same power as in the days of the Apostles and that we can still see the same results.

 

Blessings to you.


Hi Matt, grace and peace.

Thank you for your input, I appreciate the effort that you have, at length, invested.

I am sure that you would agree with me when I say that God does not contradict Himself, for He is not a man that He could lie. And if Sister White would contradict herself, she would be a false prophet. So, therefore, my only conclusion, in light of what you have presented, would be that, miraculous healing, if it is indeed from God, would only come, when an adherence, as far as possible, to Gods health laws, is performed, and when received in faith.

I do not reject the fact that God can, and does heal. Remember this discussion posed the question, if satan could heal. I just believe, wholeheartedly, what Sister White says, that no-one should expect healing when poisoning the temple of God (our bodies). Also, The Word of God, that, should we defile our bodies (not adhere to health laws), then, even our prayers are an abomination to Him. What you quoted from Sister White cannot disagree, or else she be a false prophet, and I believe she is not. 

Satans deceptions, all throughout time, have been as strong a resemblance as possible to the works of God.

As I have said, I have laid on hands, in faith, and seen miraculous things take place, praying in faith, only to see the persons condition return and worsen at a later stage. And of course, satan hounds them with lies: "your faith is not strong enough, you don't believe properly, its because your unworthy, God does not love you" etc etc. And so the saying goes in German:" Teufelskreis" (devils circle) round and round you go, burning your faith, going from one healer to another.

God in His providence has given us the capability to discern the True from the false.

The very nature of deception is that we know it not. Thinking we are rich and increased with goods, and in want of nothing, but in reality, we are wretched, miserable, blind, naked and poor.

One of satans deceptions in our day, designed to deceive the very elect, will be false miracles (false, as in, not from God). With 70% of our western society chronically sick, in some form or another, it should be of no surprise to us.

I would suggest to walk with extreme caution, testing all things against, not just some, but against all of Scripture and SOP, holding fast only that which is on solid rock.

Lack of faith. You cannot please God without it, with or without health message.

Christ-like work are to be unsealed. It gives no reference as to how.

Abiding in Christ. those who KEEP the commandments of God and have the testimony (character) of Jesus Christ.

He did not refuse to heal them. But there then followed conviction of SIN (transgression of Law).

Gospel still has same power. Amen, but the Everlasting Gospel produces two classes of worshipers: Gods way, and satans way.

By healing in His name the diseases of the body, they would testify to His power for the healing of the soul. By healing physically ( medical missionary work ), it would give witness to Christs power to SAVE.

Everything can be understood or missunderstood. Spirit of Prophecy and Gods Word do not err or disagree.

I pray Gods abundant blessings for you my friend, with the utmost respect, in love, Scott.

Amen! great input

Hi Scott,

 

Yes, I would agree that if you are a Christian and doing something that would cause ill-health and  expect God to heal you whilst continuing bad practices, then something is wrong. Somethings needs to change.

 

At the same token I know of people suffering terminal illnesses and are rock solid Adventists adhering to health principles to a point of excellence. It would be very sad for us to say it is because you have violated health laws when this is not the case.

 

While all sin and sickness is because of the transgression of God's law, we need to remember that it breaks down into 2 categories:

 

1. Direct - personal sin/violation

2. Indirect - by parents/grandparents/....Adam and Eve

 

Remembering that the ultimate source of sin was the devil.

 

Ellen G. White, Medical Ministry, p.11.

„Sickness, suffering, and death are the work of an antagonistic power. Satan is the destroyer; God is the Restorer.“

 

Ellen White experienced first hand affliction by demonic spirits.

 

Ellen G. White, This Day With God, p. 36.
“Since coming to this meeting [biennial session, Pacific Union Conference], I have passed through a strange experience…That night I could not seem to lose myself in sleep. It seemed as if evil angels were right in the room where I was. And while I was suffering in mind, it seemed as if I was suffering great bodily pain. My right arm, which through the years has nearly always been preserved from disease and suffering, seemed powerless. I could not lift it.
Then I had a most severe, excruciating pain in the ear; then most terrible suffering in the jaw. It seemed as if I must scream. But I kept saying, "Lord, You know all about it." I was in perfect agony… Just before the break of day I fell asleep for about an hour. My arm is all right this morning. Legions of evil angels were in that room, and if I had not clung by faith to the Lord, I do not know what might have become of me. . . .Light has been coming to me that unless we have more evident movings of the Spirit of God, and greater manifestations of divine power working in our midst, many of God's people will be overcome. Satanic agencies will come in, as they came to me. But we cannot afford to yield to the power of the enemy.” Manuscript 25, Jan. 28, 1910.

 

Because there are many causes of disease (bad diet/intemperance/inherited/accidents/demonic) we need to broaden our approach to healing.


Something else I would also like to point out. I approach healing slightly differently when dealing with believers and unbelievers. Both I treat with great mercy.

 

I actually pray for unbelievers as the need requires (sick folk in need of healing) on the street, in shops, in their homes, pretty much anywhere I run into them. Jesus really is the same and ready to work though us in powerful ways. This is what we are commission by Jesus to do (Mk 16:18). I then speak to them about the King and the Kingdom. If the illness was caused by bad diet, I explain to them some basic health principles so they can maintain health. Then there are others who have been healed of depression. They need other advice. Others, once again, who were healed of broken backs. I have found I don't have to encourage them to exercise as they are keener than ever to get up and moving like they used to.

 

When believers approach me for prayer depending on the issue, I will ask them if they are doing everything possible (if I suspect the problem is by improper diet or something related) to regain health via a change in diet and health practices. We spend a little time discussing the issues. I look at relationships too (as sometimes bitterness/anger/unforgiveness can have a cause health issues).  Then I will pray for them depending on root cause of the disease/illness.

 

I am a little surprised by some of your comments on the fragments I gave you. All of them deal with divine healing through the power of the Holy Spirit whilst preaching the Gospel. But since you seem to doubt thinking that Ellen cannot have more than one opinion, here a few others:

 

Ellen G. White, The Desire of Ages, p. 821.
"Through the gift of the Holy Spirit the disciples were to receive a marvelous power. Their testimony was to be confirmed by signs and wonders. Miracles would be wrought, not only by the apostles, but by those who received their message.”

Ellen G. White, The Acts of the Apostles, p. 599
"Of the apostles it is written, “They went forth, and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following.” Mark 16:20. As Christ sent forth His disciples, so today He sends forth the members of His church. The same power that the apostles had is for them.”

Ellen G. White, The Desire of Ages, pp. 823.
"Christ feels the woes of every sufferer. When evil spirits rend a human frame, Christ feels the curse. When fever is burning up the life current, He feels the agony. And He is just as willing to heal the sick now as when He was personally on earth. Christ’s servants are His representatives, the channels for His working. He desires through them to exercise His healing power.”

 

Probably one of the greatest encouragements that I found is that Ellen White prayed for the sick on a regular basis, regardless of the cause. Sure she gave counsel on health but she was always ready to show mercy (as we too are in need of mercy).


Ellen G. White, Manuscript Releases, Vol. 18, p. 372.

„Sister White has prayed for many sick persons and they have been healed. There have been many, so very many, healed, for whom my husband and I have prayed, laying our hands upon them, and they were healed and glorified God. But I did not work the miracle; I called upon One who was the Miracle-worker and He has answered my prayer in a remarkable manner. The light of His Spirit has filled the room and some have been prostrated by the power of God, losing their strength. But their hearts and lips were filled with praise to God.“ --Ms 159, 1907.

 

Blessings and Mercy


Brother Matt, grace and peace.

Thank you once again for your input, and for having such patience.

I am, in no way an expert, either in practice, or theory. I am just a servant of Christ, desperate to die to self, that my Lord may be lifted up and glorified, by everything, that I think, say and do.

I will, prayerfully,give all you have written my consideration.

One thing I know, that if it would appear that there is a contradiction, then it would lie therein that WE misinterpret and/or misunderstand. There are no errors or contradictions in the inspired works of Sister White or Gods Word.

 

In love, your brother and servant in Christ, Scott. 

Thanks for your time. It was good to share a few things and rattle the cage.

 

I don't think there are any serious contradictions. You may need to remember that not all truth is equal!

For example: Jesus said "I no longer call you servants but friends" (Jn 15:15). We are will always be servants but there is a greater truth. We become friends through intimacy with Jesus, as the servant does not know the Master's buisness.

Again: In the OT you touch a leper you become unclean. In  the NT you touch the leper and they become clean. They are both true, but one is a greater truth. God's righteousness and power is greater then sin and sickness.

 

James speaks about judgment and mercy. Both are true. But as he put it in such a beautiful way "Mercy triumphs over judgment" (James 2:13). We need to remember this in our ministry to a sick and dying world.

 

Blessings to you my friend.

I've presented a case, printed in the Review and Herald, and it had been reprinted, as a warning that NOT ALL HEALING IS FROM THE LORD.  The enemy of souls can make it appear, as EGWhite has written, but the healing is genuine, as in the case of that sister in the article printed several decades ago.  She went to a faith healing meeting, not Adventist, in while sitting in with the audience, the healing of her foot took place.

As a church, we practice ANOINTING in our midst.  And there have been many cases of DIVINE HEALING as a result of anointing.  There are many healing which has resulted from anointing, the Biblically prescribed prayer for healing. (I hope this will satisfy what one of the participant asked, why is there no divine healing in the SDA church.)  Normally, no publicity is generated in the case of healing, genuine one, which the Lord has seen fit to give to the group which did the anointing service.  It is a beautiful service, it prepares the sick individual to accept whatever will happen.  He/She is not only healed, but spiritually restored.  And even when no healing, physically, takes place, the spiritual healing is good for the soul of the sick one.  

You asked a question, gave us a few verses and then summed up with pastors claiming to be christians, yet they are healing. 

 

First are we suggesting that the devil is a part of all non Adventist Christian Churches? Are we stating that Pastors in non Adventist Christian churches are not Christians?

To me we need to ask a direct question without the frills.  Nonetheless. I do not believe that the devil can  truly heal. I don't think that he is moving around this earth cleaning up the mess that the created, because his time is short.

I think, Satan can heal, someone said that Satan can do most things except for reviving a dead soul.

 

If we look back to History, Egyptians are practicing rituals for healing and whatever they wanted, they can use magic. These miracles are not new. What is it worth to be healed but LOST YOUR OWN SOUL! Christians have died for their faith and I am a Christian, an Adventist, waiting for Jesus. We will die, that's always true but be sure that if we are sick we don't go to Endor for healing. Let's go to Jesus!

RSS

Site Sponsors

 

Adventist Single?
Meet other Single
Adventists here:
Join Free


USA members:

Support AO by
using this link:
Amazon.com

 

© 2019   Created by Clark P.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service