Christianity and abuse

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Permalink Reply by Bree on February 11, 2012 at 3:13am

Both.

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Permalink Reply by Man Flower Glow on February 11, 2012 at 3:40pm

yes

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Permalink Reply by Sarah Sulton on February 11, 2012 at 3:45pm

Both!  The minor, elderly, and victims have to be protected--FIRST!  

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Permalink Reply by Ray Phillips on February 11, 2012 at 5:15pm

Russel

 

A cottage industry has come into being to "protect the abused."  While any good Christian will take a stand against abuse in any form, what has become even more important today is to determine where abuse has in fact occured and who is the real abuser.  And it is not always the obvious target.  Unless one is able to see past the obvious, they have no business labeling anyone as an abuser.

 

Let's look at a current example here in the USA.

 

Recently a man, Josh Powell, allowed his two boys into his home, then slammed the door in the face of the social worker who had brought them over, then ignited some gasoline and destroyed the house and himself and his three sons.  Many are puzzled as to what would cause a father to do this.  They resolve the problem by saying that he was "pure evil."  However, the facts have stared them in the face that they could not see for their own biases.  Nothing unusual. 

 

So, what is another possible scenario.  Of course, no one knows all of the facts, but those facts which have been presented and seem to be without question, provide more then enough evidence to support an entirley different story from that which is popularly presented.  Here are what I have heard as facts.

1. Josh Powell's father had been the object of Josh's wife's flirting and possibly a whole lot more. 
2. Jealousy, which would be more then very possible in such a situation may indeed have caused Josh to do his wife in.  Women have been killed for less.  However, that is not a certainty, just a possibility, yes, even a strong one.
3. Her folks have demonstrated that they seem to beleive that they were the rightful heirs to her children and that Josh has no rights to them at all and could not be trusted with them.  Even though he had always been a reasonable responsible father up to this point.  If her folks raised a child like Josh's wife, who is to say that they would do any better with the two boys?  Their credentials certainly are not sterling.
4. There seems to be evidence that her folks had been interfering in their marriage even as much as his own father had been interfering, if not even more.
5. Children belong to their parents, not the grandparents.  Some people, especially parents of a girl, seem to believe to the contrary, but wait until some grand parent tries to take your children away and then tell me that grandparents have first rights to the children.

So, Josh, found himself in the situation where his wife was being unfaithful with at least his own father, if not someone else too, that his in-laws were trying to take his children.  That the police and judicial system believed he was guilty with no proof and were going to take his family from him, with no one on his side.  He was left with no options.  That is always a dangerous place to place anyone.

 

There has been talk about being a mother bear.  Well, there is also such a thing as a father bear too.  And they tend to be larger and just as defensive of what they beleive is theirs.

So, in fact, who was being abused?

1. Was his wife being abused when she was stepping out on Josh?
2. Were his in-laws being abused when they wanted to take his children from Josh?
3. Was child services being abused when they inserted themselves between a father and his children?
4. Were the police being abused when they would not look at anything except that Josh was guilty of the murder of his wife?
5. Was the judge being abused when he took Josh's children from him?

Or in fact, just could it be that each of these were in fact the abusers and Josh was the one being abused beyound what he could stand?  Oh, it is easy to stand back and point the finger at Josh, but it is much harder to beleive that the majority is wrong.  Oh, I am not saying that Josh did not make any mistakes.  But, neither is it clear that the above list of powers were without fault in what they did either.  When the whole world seems to be against you, people do desperate things.

 

Over my life, I have seen many charged with abuse when in fact the ones leveling the charges were the real abusers.  This is not to say that there are many legitimate cases of abuse, and that the abusers need to be punished.  However, just because someone wears a skirt, a badge, a judges robes, or is related to someone, that does not mean that they are ALWAYS RIGHT.  They can all make mistakes as well as the one who is hounded until they take drastic actions. 

 

We have  not seen anything yet.  This phenomena will be come worse and worse as the days go by.  We as Christians must be sure that we are on the right side and not wear blinders to the real issues and join those who are wrong to engage in even more wrong.  Which is exactly what is happening many times in our church today.

 

Maranatha :)
Ray

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Man Flower Glow on February 11, 2012 at 5:29pm

u make alot of good points

maybe i should invite u over for dinner

 

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Permalink Reply by Russell Osborne on February 11, 2012 at 5:31pm

Ray, I find your story compelling and I agree with some of the things you outlined. I am however attempting to look at the issue from the redemptive side and I still am wandering what should be the Christian's approach. There have been three posts before but they haven't been helpful seeing that they lack reasoning. Should the Christian seek to restore the abuser while covering his sins, or should our approach be to expose him? which is what the world is telling us should be done. What is the directive from the Word of God and the Spirit of Prophecy? 

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Permalink Reply by Sarah Sulton on February 11, 2012 at 8:40pm

I purposely kept my post simple because of other threads I have started and discussed with this issue here, as well as Christians should not have to think twice (IMHO) about this one.  Here are a few scripture that applies:

"Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come!  It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.  Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.  And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith."--Luke 17:1-5

"He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy".--Proverbs 28:12

 

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Permalink Reply by Ray Phillips on February 11, 2012 at 9:39pm

Russell

 

There is no one answer that fits all.  As an example, let's go back to the illustration I gave.  What would be a proper approach to each of the ones I mentioned.

1. Josh's wife.  As I see it, a good approach would be for a woman to become friends with her and try to help her to find self worth through ways other then flirting or throwing her body around.
2. As for Josh's father, he would need a man to again become a friend and help him find ways of entertainment other then women.  To have a more healthy outlook on life.  To turn his life over to God, rather then just living for himself.
3. As for the in-laws.  This is where a trusted counselor should help them understand that their perception of the ownership of their daughter ended when she said "I do."  That they should have recognized the sanctity of their daughters home and not try to continue to impose their will on their children.  If they could not get it right  by the time she married, they would not be able to get it right with the grand sons either.
4. As for the government agencies, they are more or less beyound the help of any one individual.  They have taken on a life of their own and they are filled with "do gooder nannies," for the most part, who need more help themselves then they give.  Don't say I don't know what I am talking about because I have seen them in action up close.  Oh, they get it right at times, but when people are placed in those positions just to give them something to do or becasue their mother/aunt/friend etc. has a high position in those agencies, they are not qualified, especially when they do not know Chist.  Often they do not even know their own guidelines themselves.  Again, this is first hand knowledge, not heresay.

The way Jesus worked was to gain their confidence by being a friend, then asking them to follow Him.  Preaching and condemning seldom, if ever, does any good.  If the sinner confesses their sin and chooses to renounce that kind of life, definatly restore them. 

Covering a sin is sometimes good, more often bad, when dealing with an abuser.  That is what they are counting on.  However, on the other hand, be sure you are dealing with a genuine, unrepentent, determined abuser, and not just someone who has a legitimate different nature then you have. 

E.g., When my wife and I were married, she had a family who hugged everybody.  I only hugged those who I was dating or my close family.  Italians, etc., only feel comfortable when they are standing close.  While Caucasians tend to want a little more space.  Neither is a moral issue, however, some have seen it as such.

 

I am reminded of a funny situation that happened in my own home.  We had two ladies, a daughter and her mother, visiting us.  The daughter's husband had just passed away and we were trying to be nice to them in that time of their life.  I have no idea now how the converstation started, but it moved to a man in their home church who they said always had to place his hands on women's shoulders and rub their back.  They felt that he was trying to feel their bra stap.  Why I have no idea.  After they changed the subject, the older woman felt that it was a little warm with her sweater on, so she procedded to remove it.  However, in the process she removed all but her basic underclothes.  I made a hasty exit.  Now, was she an exhibitionist?  No, not hardly, however, I have meet people who would have had thoughts that way.

 

Or anther example.  When my aunt became too old and was unable to live alone, the state presented me with the option of sending her to a facility or my taking her into my home.  I did just that, for the Bible tells us that if we cannot care for our own familes, we are worse then an infidel, or something like that.  I have a 4 bedroom, 2 bath home, so she has 1/2 and I have 1/2.  However, a pastor's wife approached us to check on our living arrangements.  My first impulse was to tell her it was none of her business.  Just what is wrong about two old people, who are related to each other, who are too old to even be concerned about such things, living under the same roof?  This is what I mean about people showing their mentality and imposing it on others. 

 

So, I guess the best answer for all situations would be to seek to know the Lord's will and to think the best of all men.  Only if you have the authority and responsibility should you try to take the speck out of a brother/sister's eye.  But first you should check one's own attitude and be sure we do not have a plank in our own eye.

 

Maranatha :)
Ray

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Permalink Reply by Man Flower Glow on February 11, 2012 at 10:19pm

and in the end is father killes mother and hacks the two little boys and blow up the house

it seems someones abuse was just a tad more than others

RAY i should invite you to dinner!

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