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Dear Friends on Adventist Online,

 

I would appreciate if you could read the article written by one of my country man to one of our daily newspapers. He is a roman catholic christian. He wrote this article after Pr. John Carter completed an Evangelistic meeting in my country, Papua New Guinea (PNG).

 

How would you counter the arguments presented in his article? How would you answer the questions (in bold) he asked?

 

Please provide your response. We've exchanged mails in the last 3 days, and now I would like to respond to his article. I will do my own study and prepare answers for a meaningful discussion with him, but I would appreciate if you could give your response to his arguments.  

 

I pray that may the Holy Spirit Lead him to the light, and just like Paul, He can be changed and be the advocate for truth.

 

 

CLAIMS BY SDA CHURCH IS LAUGHABLE

Thirty years ago, the Australian Seventh Day Adventist Church Pastor John Carter visited PNG and gave a two weeks on the so-called SDA Revelations Seminar at Sir Hubert Murray Stadium. Carter claimed that the Catholic Church is the whore of Babylon alluded to in Revelations 17. Moreover, he alleged that its Pope, is the anti-Christ depicted by 666 of Revelations 13. Repeating Ellen White’s allegations in her book The Great Controversy he claimed the Pope will conspire with USA and together, they will persecute every Seventh Day Adventist Saturday Sabbath-keepers on earth before Christ returns. This claim is as ridiculous as it is laughable. This cultic mentality is believed only by fervent SDA believers even though Mrs. White’s interpretations lack biblical support and modern day indicators. But then SDA’s are sworn to believe and not question whatever Mrs. White has written (embedded in the SDA’s “ever-changing” 28 Fundamental Beliefs).
The SDA church is now being rocked by its own biblical scholars in USA, Europe and South Africa who are denouncing the teachings of Ellen Gould White as non-biblical and cultic. The church’s crusades and seminars are no longer publicly advertised under the name of the church because of embarrassment. Instead, the church sponsor is veiled by banners and glossy eye-catching advertising posters such as “Amazing Discoveries” and “Health Seminar” which targets nations such as PNG whose christians are still behind revelations and revolutions in the global Christian kingdom.
In this first visit to PNG 30 years ago, Pastor Carter’s parting challenge was to give K1,000 to any Roman Catholic who could prove by the bible that Sunday is a day of worship and not the Jewish Saturday Sabbath. Not surprisingly, the good pastor was relatively subdued during his second visit to Port Moresby last month. SDA bible scholars such as Robert Brinsmead, Professor Desmond Ford have found that the bible is silent on both Saturday and Sunday Sabbath for Christians. The Old Testament taught Sabbath-keeping for God’s chosen 12 tribes of the Jewish ancestry. This teaching was never extrapolated to the first Christians of the New Testament. In fact St. Paul in the New Testament taught the early Christians of Rome, Colossae books and the Hebrews not to observe Jewish traditions including the Jewish Sabbath keeping and outlawing eating “unclean” food such as pork and mackerel (yes, to be consistent, mackerel too).
If Pastor John Carter wants the bible to be used as his standard of test, I challenge him - or any of his disciples - to prove by the bible that the Jewish Sabbath applies to Christians. Pastor Carter should clearly explain (without convoluting simple bible texts with Mrs. White’s literary deception) why Jesus exalted Love as the greatest commandment - in the books of Matthew, John and 1 John - and not the Jewish Saturday Sabbath. Why did Jesus teach that Love is the greatest commandment by which “hangs all the prophets and the law” (Mt 22: 35-40)? Leading SDA tele-evangelists such as Ps John Carter and Ps Doug Bachelor are themselves entangled in the internal conflicts confronting the SDA church in the US and Europe but avoid talking about it. As a result, when they mount the pedestal in countries not up to speed with religious revelations and revolutions, they become too immodest to inform these uninformed about these great controversies rocking the firmament of the SDA Church in USA. Instead they are courageous about publicly persecuting Sunday worshippers, the Pope and the Catholic Church.
A former SDA Australian Pastor, Robert Brinsmead (sacked by the SDA Church for questioning Ellen White’s teachings) pleads in his book, “Judged By The Gospel”, to test the teachings of Ellen Gould White by the Bible and not the other way around. In addition, I am pleading to SDA’s in PNG not to place too much credence in the new SDA version of the Bible, the “Clear Word Bible”. This is because SDA’s own bible scholars are horrified that the so-called “Clear Word Bible” have been corrupted in a lot of places in order to vindicate the false and wrong teachings of Mrs. White. They say that is akin to the “tail wagging the dog”, or “making the crime fit the punishment”.

 

 

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Bird of Paradise,

Kindly refer your friend to Rome's Challenge and let's see which is really laughable: the Adventist position, the Catholic position, or the position taken by the daughters of Rome. It would have been laughable if it wasn't a matter of life and death.

Thanks, I will.

Dear Beloved Bird of Paradise,

God bless you for the effort to tell your brethren about the attacks the false prophets are making. This is exactly what our most beloved Jesus and yet the most hated by the catholics and all their cospirants.

 

I have thought to add to many other spiritual respondents who have not just tried to help you but also ourselves, because in proverbs it is writen, "He that waters, waters himself also". This is what our savior Jesus said' Watch and lift up your eyes, for your redemption draweth nigh".

Here is a qoutation from one of the Catholic writings,

Thomas, Georgia

May 22, 1934

 

To Pope Pius XI

Rome, Italy

 

Dear Sir:

Is the accusation true, that protestants accuse you of? They say you changed the Seventh Day Sabbath to the, so called, christian Sunday: identical with the Fist-Day of the week. If so when did you make the change, and by what authority.

Yours very truely

signed

J.L.Day

 

The above was a letter written by Mr. J.L. Day addressed to the Pope Pius XI; and the reply was givenin the Chicago. here it is:

 

Extension Magazine Published by 

The Catholic Church Extension Society of the United States of America

180 North Wabash Avenue

Chicago

 

Dear Sir:

Regarding the change from the observance of the Jewish Sabbath to the Christians Sunday, I wish to draw your attention to the facts:

(1) That protestants, who accept the Bible as the only rule of faith and religion, should by all means go back to the observance of the Sabbath. The fact thatthey do not, but on the contrary observe the Sunday, stultifies them in the eyes  of every thinking man.

(2) We Catholics do not accept the Bible as the only authority of the church, as a rule to guide us . We say, this church instituted by Christ, to teach and guide man through life, has the right to change the ceremonial laws of the Old testament and hence, we accept the change of the Sabbath to Sunday. We frankly say, "Yes, the church made this change, made this law, as she has made many other laws, for instance, the Friday Abstanence, the unmarried priesthood, the laws concerning mixed marriages, the regulation of Catholic marriages, and a thousand other laws."

 

(3) We also say that of all Protestants, the Seventh-day Adventists are the only group that reason correctly and are consistent with their teachings. It is always somewhat laughable to see the Protestant churches, in pulpit and legislature, demand the observance of Sunday, of which there is nothing in the Bible.

 

With best wishes

Peter R. Tramer, Editor

 

A few issues can be corrected in view of what is written in the Bible.

1. This church (catholic) instituted by Christ; it is a lie. Jesus kept the Sabbath and not Sunday Luke 4:16

2. The church has the right to change the laws. NO! Matthew 5:17-19 Do not think that I (Jesus came to abolish (change or modify) the Law

well many other you can refer to the bible and see catholic errors and so on.

Finally your friend said the SDA claims are LAUGHABLE, whom does the catholis themselves laugh?

Protestants who keep sunday and not the SDAs

 

Do all you can to find a book BEYOND PITCAIRN written by Br Vance Farrel you will find many and great help.

Best Regards

Reeves

 

 

 

 

 

God bless u Reveres for ur contribution

Brother, the battle is getting hot indeed. Next time will share with you some thing from a book written by a Catholic Zambian where he has claimed and expressed the similar views and wrote many things against the truth. Nevertheless TRUTH WILL TRIUMPH. I long to see you brother on that great day when the Jesus shall rip off the skies and call His own home. There is a song we used and still sing it alone these days " away far beyond jordan, will meet in that land, how happy we shall be.... if you get there before I do look out for me am coming too. away far beyond jordan, will meet in that beautiful land."

I thank God for the blessings may He richly bless you too.

Hi My friend, thank you for your article.

The question is not whether this man's (he is not a Christian, Christians follow Christ) statements are correct, the evidence is overwhelming to show that his claims are unfounded. The real question we should be asking ourselves is whether we will be on the right side of the argument or not, because even though his statements are untrue in regards to the SDA Church, just because we are on the books does not mean we are on the right side of the statement.

The Church are those who hear the word of God and do it Luke 8:21.

Therefore to ensure that you will not be there to see his words being fulfilled, as you give in and worship on Sunday, may I suggest we concentrate on our relationship with Christ, through the understanding and receiving of truth into our hearts, so that we will be counted worthy to stand in that evil day Eph 6:13.

In vision I saw two armies in terrible conflict. One army was led by banners bearing the world's insignia; the other was led by the blood-stained banner of Prince Emmanuel. Standard after standard was left to trail in the dust as company after company from the Lord's army joined the foe; and tribe after tribe from the ranks of the enemy united with the commandment-keeping people of God. An angel flying in the midst of heaven put the standards of Emmanuel into many hands, while a mighty general cried with a loud voice, "Come into line. Let those who loyal to the commandments of God and the testimony of Christ, now take their position. 'Come out from among them, and be ye separate, . . . and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, and will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters.' Let all who will, come up to the help of the Lord, to the help of the Lord against the mighty."  {RH, November 26, 1903 par. 1}

As the storm approaches, a large class who have professed faith in the third angel’s message, but have not been sanctified through obedience to the truth, abandon their position and join the ranks of the opposition. By uniting with the world and partaking of its spirit, they have come to view matters in nearly the same light; and when the test is brought, they are prepared to choose the easy, popular side. Men of talent and pleasing address, who once rejoiced in the truth, employ their powers to deceive and mislead souls. They become the most bitter enemies of their former brethren. When Sabbathkeepers are brought before the courts to answer for their faith, these apostates are the most efficient agents of Satan to misrepresent and accuse them, and by false reports and insinuations to stir up the rulers against them.  {GC 608.2}

 "Some had been shaken out and left by the way. The careless and indifferent, who did not join with those who prized victory and salvation enough to perseveringly plead and agonize for it, did not obtain it, and they were left behind in darkness, and their places were immediately filled by others taking hold of the truth and coming into the ranks.--EW 271 (1858). {LDE 182.1} 

Blessings

Mark

Bird of Paradise,

Do you have any update on what your friend has said since? Is he still laughing at the Adventist church claims?

We are admonished by Paul to "always be ready to give an answer about our faith". 
Since there is a lot of negative information about the SDA church and EGW online, how can you know how to answer it unless you know what is there?

One question many ask is "Why are there primarilyl Black Conferences and White Conferences"?

What other church on earth is racially divided as is the SDA church, which division dates back to Sis White?
Does God approve of such racial division in the church?

SEPARATE BLACK AND WHITE CONFERENCES
—Part 1

The Sin We Don’t Want To Overcome
[Article Excerpted from Author’s Must We Be Silent
http://www.drpipim.org/church-racism-contemporaryissues-51/97-separ...

The writer of this article has onviosly not studied his/her Bible otherwise he/she would have noticed the following facts:

1.  The Sabbath was established in Eden after God completed the creation of this planet, as attested to inthe 4th commandment.  So it existed long before there was a Jew

2. This person claims that Paul did not encourage the observance of the Sabbath.  In Acts 18:4 it says that Paul "reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks (non Jews)."

3. In Matthew 24 where Jesus refers to the destruction of Jerusalem (which occurred about 40 years after Jesus died) Jesus says, "And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath."  This texts proves that the 7th day Sabbath would still be observed long after Jesus died, was resurrected and returned to Heaven.

4. In Isaiah 66:23 where Isaiah gives a prophecy about the New Earth he says, ""And it shall come to pass That from one New Moon to another, And from one Sabbath to another, All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the LORD"

5. A study of the Seal of God verses the Mark of the Beast (I don't have time to go into details here) shows that the SEal of God is the Sabbath and the Mark of the Beast in Sunday worship (once it becomes legally enforced).

6. It was Jesus custom (Luke 14:16) and Paul's custom (Acts 17:2)

7. If God was going to change His Sabbath He would come out directly and say so.  No one would accept any president, prime minister, etc to changing a law and not openly announcing it, so why accept the same with God.  

These are just some facts this person is overlooking.  For an extensive resource on facts in support for the Sabbath I suggest you check out www.sabbathtruth.com.  Maybe you could even suggest this to the person who wrote this article.

I would like to give you some advice Bird of Paradise.  Assuming that I am not too late, I would advise that before you begin telling this person about the truth regarding the Bible Sabbath that you first establish if he is really interested in what the Bible really has to say on this subject.  The reason I say this is that if his only intention is to create an argument and he has no real interest in knowing what the Bible really teaches it would be a totally pointless and time wasting process in proceeding with presenting the truth as he will just reject everything you tell him.  If, on the other hand, he is interested in knowing what the Bible teaches then tread carefully and don't overwhelm him with information.  Just be prepared that it mau take several sessions before he will begin to start accepting the truth.

Matthew 22:36-40

New International Version (NIV)

36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

ten commands summarised

- have no other gods before me

-don't worship idols

-don't misuse the name of God

-Keep the Sabbath day Holy

these fall under Love God with all your heart

- honor father and mother

-shall not commit murder

-shall not commit adultery

-shall not steal

-shall not bear false witness

-shall not covet your neighbor's

fall under love your neighbor.

Jesus exalted love because all the commandments are out of love. one needs to love the Lord for them to keep the Sabbath. you can't steal from or murder your neighbor if you love them.

If you ask me the largest cult in the world is none other than the church in Rome. Just read about the history of the church during the Dark Ages. Anything the papal priesthood said the rest of Europe had to go along with it or be excommunicated (go to hell @ death). My nephew has joined this church and he comes up to me with the most bizarre doctrines ever, even telling me that he has given his will to "Papa Benny". Man... just when I thought the Mormons were weird. :P

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