Adventist Online

Yesterday I discovered a Christian chat site that was the most welcoming site I have ever been to. The founder or one of the key people, who does programming all of the site etc. as well as admin work, came in voice directly to me with new technology he was testing.

At first when I heard this voice talking to me, I was surprised, He introduced himself as Mr. Troy. He helped me through everything, taking me into a beginner's chat room, spent time with me personally. The attitude was completely love of God and friendliness. Within minutes they had accepted me, it didn't take weeks like on this site. They had me fill out a form, verify email, informed me of the rules which are strict as regarding blocking people or other means of correcting violation of the rules and dealing with those that are abusive, unkind and just plain mean, unlike this site.

The principle officer Mr. Troy was incredible in service, acting Christ-like and I praised him and thanked him for how he conducted himself. This was a great witness. When Mr. Troy took me to the chat rooms to show me how things work, everyone there was kind, friendly, non-combative, non-denominational, and accepting, the way God excepts people in their imperfections and sin into the body of Christ.

After I figured it out, I was in the Biblical Study chat room. People disagreed sometimes, but they remained civil, not attacking the individual, but stating their position without judging the individuals they disagreed with, unlike what happens on this site if someone has a view other than standard dogma.

Many people in the Biblical Study chat room did not know much Biblically, some knew from their mostly institutional church, and some were wise on some particular issue. There was no attacking there regardless, there was freedom to speak, with no one telling you to stop or shut up, unlike here.

I answered questions and made statements backed up with scriptures and people were accepting of me as a person and didn't question my spirituality or sincerity, in fact they respected me, as any man or woman of God should be respected, as a brother in Christ. There were disagreements, but mutual respect, unlike here.

I see on Facebook for this site that there are people that for months have not been accepted and no word has come from the admin here, unlike the site. A friend of mine Bob wanted to join  Adventistonline. He made several applications, none were acceptable and he waited months, with no word. He gave up. This is apparently a closed and exclusive society for the most part on this site.

I don't want to disparage individuals who are kind on this site, there are many, I have made friends here though we disagree on a few topics, but agree on many, and I don't want to impugn the admins here, for it is a hard job I am sure. I am thankful that I am able to meet people that I can pray for and maybe help them in some way. But I think that this site could learn something from this wonderful chat site, the way they operate, and the way people conduct themselves.

I am very critical of those that falsely accuse and attack the individual here and are mockers, but I have none of that trouble at this other site. The contrast was incredible. The atmosphere was completely different in a good sense. There wasn't that heavy you better believe our doctrines or else attitude.

It was open, free and yet decently and in order, and I saw no abuse. By the way, the other site has experienced bad situations where people took advantage, they have learned by experience how to correct those problems while maintaining a friendly, supportive and inclusive and excepting environment.

This unfortunately is a sad commentary of contrast. Look, there are wonderful people here, but some here are over the top in their accusatory attitudes and lack of tolerance of any thing they disagree with.

One should retain an open mind for the truth, as well as respecting divergent views, thats why the founding fathers of this country installed the First Amendment. Some of you would like to stop certain views that you don't like. The Freedom of Speech etc. allows for ideas to flourish, and hopefully the best ideas, learning and wisdom and knowledge will win out in the end. 

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Thomas, I do appreciate your thoughts and reasonableness and consideration. There are many kind people in the SDA, both here and whom I know and are friends with, who I may disagree and they disagree with me on some points, but they show kindness and love of God and visa versa, as the love of God is what is supposed to keep unity in the body of Christ, we are commanded to love one another, as well as love the unloveable, which isn't easy, I am still working on that one. It is difficult being called an occultist, of the Devil, and other insults, slander and people not addressing my points, and equating me with counterfeit manifestations of the Devil or what maybe mixed manifestations of good and evil spirits working at the same time, such as someone could speak in tongues by the spirit of God, while handling rattle snakes, which is not only dangerous, but of the Devil. They play the same occultic "card," painting me as a counterfeit who deceived etc. and refer to youtube demonic activities...which I am against and have never practiced nor condoned, and never will.

The mockers attack me in a manner like if for instance, if I found the worst person in the SDA, and put them in with him. In Burlingame, CA, near where I lived, in fact there was an SDA pastor in charge of that church, who burned the church down for insurance money, to expand the church, was caught, served time. It was in the newspapers at the time. Now would I equate all SDA ministers as being like him without foundation? Of course not! That would be underhanded and dishonest.

I remember the Moonies, how they believed in lying which they called divine deception, or something to that effect, because they rationalized that since the lie was used for the church, and its defense and protection, that lying was really not lying. The personal attacks not being enforced in any way is out of order both according to the rules of the site and the manner in which we as Christians should conduct ourselves with mutual respect, even if we disagree on doctrine and practice. I have many Christian friends and ministers, even those whom I support in various manners, whom I agree on many things, and yet don't see eye to eye with them on some other things, but I don't hate them.

The SDA elite circle the wagons mentality and persecution complex in regards to all of the rest of Christendom, does not fit with the scriptures or with the spiritual reality that all believers in Christ, who are born again, regardless of doctrine and practice, are part of the one body of Christ, and Christ is the head. The divisions in the spiritual church are part of the Devil's scheme to cause divisions, by false doctrine, envy, hate etc. Now, I am not for what I know to be false doctrines. I believe and practice the truth of the one body of Christ, I pray for and interact with other Christians in any denomination, attempt to the best of my ability to cooperate with other Christians, and be friendly, and if I can help, I do. But I do not believe in a one world ecumenical church that Satan is building as part of the New World Order.

I think that no denomination or Christian of any kind including myself has it all together spiritually, otherwise he or she could get up on the cross and be the Messiah. Self righteousness through works will not save anyone. But we should love one another, as Christ commanded. It is not always easy though!

Therefore, iron sharpeneth iron, so we can and should learn from each other. I have learned a lot from some SDA teachings and practices which I think are wonderful, such as the Sabbath School and foot washing, among others...

The mockers attack me in a manner like if for instance, if I found the worst person in the SDA, and put them in with him. In Burlingame, CA, near where I lived, in fact there was an SDA pastor in charge of that church, who burned the church down for insurance money, to expand the church, was caught, served time. It was in the newspapers at the time. Now would I equate all SDA ministers as being like him without foundation? Of course not! That would be underhanded and dishonest.

OK If you see the SDA like that I understand why you have a problem. I know you said that you do not equate others with that. Newer the less if you can suggest something like that I guess some of that feeling would be on your mind, would it not? 

The JW has a reason for their church:

Mat 24:45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

The SDA has also a text for their church:

Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
Rev 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
Rev 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

What text do you have for your Church?

Thank you Tomas, you are a thinker, and one seeking the truth. If one thinks he has the whole truth, there is nothing to seek then. That is a sad and spiritually dead position to be in for those that are. Believers are supposed to be growing in truth, love, peace, power, patience etc.

As a body, the SDA church has built into its primary job-description the declaration that "Babylon is fallen, is fallen...". We teach, quite differently to most denominations, that "Babylon" includes all churches which teach that the Law of God is nailed to the cross... and that the Ten Commandments are no longer binding.

SDAs were given this message [among other things] to bear and to proclaim. We believe that Babylon now includes the vast majority of Christendom... but our denomination is not "exclusive" for the sake of being exclusive. And yet, just as it was with Israel --  which was not to be reckoned among the nations -- the SDA church will not be reckoned/numbered among the other churches. As time goes on we will stand alone more and more, and Babylonians will eventually find it torture to dwell in our midst.

The more definite we take our stand, the more people will be shaken out.

"Babylon is fallen" away from God, and there is no light in it! With a humble, definite Spirit, it is part of our mission to teach this very thing.

And that fact contributes to a vast array of unhealthy thinking. All outsiders are bad and need to be avoided or converted is a part of the church that was tainted from its inception.

So you read the "pick and choose" Bible Leon?   It is very clear that many will be saved outside of the SDA church.   

" but our denomination is not "exclusive" for the sake of being exclusive."   Stewart 

You must of missed what Stewart wrote there.   If one has the truth in a crowd of a hundred, just because that one has the truth does not make him exclusive, but it rather makes the others either ignorant or unbelievers.  

Leon, your suggestion that SDAs  represent the attitude that "All outsiders are bad and need to be avoided or converted..." is not good.

If any SDA holds that view then they are in error. We teach that God has many of His people in Babylon, and that these will eventually be called out. (There are still many genuine Christians 'residing' in Babylon.)

We teach also, that in our work we are to be Lambs among Wolves. We are not to avoid sinners, but we are to be "among" them, coming as close as possible to those people.

Then don't act like wolves!

James, I would gladly consider any example you might offer, in which I have conducted myself as a wolf.

Anything that is put above God's will which we learn through his written, spoken or revealed Word of God is idolatry, including any organization or man-made church. I personally have seen by my own involvement in a religious organization of the brain-washing, unhealthy, unscriptural doctrines and practices that lead to many problems, unhealthy, loss of spiritual vital relationship with God and others, or not having it in the beginning, and even death in some cases, as well as spiritual/mental illness. Many people never regained full deliverance from the effects.

I left the organization along with 100,000 other people in 1987. I was ministered to by another believer and a literal spirit of bondage to that organization went right out the back of my head, I literally felt the spirit leave. That again was in 1987, and for the first time in years I was truly free in Christ.


I find it telling that you criticize the forum for being unkind, and the forum members respond with hostility. That fact alone confirms your point.


Brilliant deduction which is so simple but true. thank you...we don't agree on everything, but our discourse has been cordial and friendly, and I respect you. That is how it should be. I am critical of many things about the state of Christianity, but I also give praise when due, such as to you here and in my review of Pastor Norcross and his books and ministry which is moving around the world delivering thousands to hear the Voice of The Lord, among other things he does. That review sparked a deluge of evil attacks that were unwarranted. The antagonism is rampant here. In brain washing, part of the brain washing is cognitive dissonance, which causes the subject to attack anything or anybody that differs or contradicts the programming that he or she has received. Many religious groups cause this type of reaction.


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