Yesterday I discovered a Christian chat site that was the most welcoming site I have ever been to. The founder or one of the key people, who does programming all of the site etc. as well as admin work, came in voice directly to me with new technology he was testing.
At first when I heard this voice talking to me, I was surprised, He introduced himself as Mr. Troy. He helped me through everything, taking me into a beginner's chat room, spent time with me personally. The attitude was completely love of God and friendliness. Within minutes they had accepted me, it didn't take weeks like on this site. They had me fill out a form, verify email, informed me of the rules which are strict as regarding blocking people or other means of correcting violation of the rules and dealing with those that are abusive, unkind and just plain mean, unlike this site.
The Christianchat.com principle officer Mr. Troy was incredible in service, acting Christ-like and I praised him and thanked him for how he conducted himself. This was a great witness. When Mr. Troy took me to the chat rooms to show me how things work, everyone there was kind, friendly, non-combative, non-denominational, and accepting, the way God excepts people in their imperfections and sin into the body of Christ.
After I figured it out, I was in the Biblical Study chat room. People disagreed sometimes, but they remained civil, not attacking the individual, but stating their position without judging the individuals they disagreed with, unlike what happens on this site if someone has a view other than standard dogma.
Many people in the Biblical Study chat room did not know much Biblically, some knew from their mostly institutional church, and some were wise on some particular issue. There was no attacking there regardless, there was freedom to speak, with no one telling you to stop or shut up, unlike here.
I answered questions and made statements backed up with scriptures and people were accepting of me as a person and didn't question my spirituality or sincerity, in fact they respected me, as any man or woman of God should be respected, as a brother in Christ. There were disagreements, but mutual respect, unlike here.
I see on Facebook for this site that there are people that for months have not been accepted and no word has come from the admin here, unlike the Christianchat.com site. A friend of mine Bob wanted to join Adventistonline. He made several applications, none were acceptable and he waited months, with no word. He gave up. This is apparently a closed and exclusive society for the most part on this site.
I don't want to disparage individuals who are kind on this site, there are many, I have made friends here though we disagree on a few topics, but agree on many, and I don't want to impugn the admins here, for it is a hard job I am sure. I am thankful that I am able to meet people that I can pray for and maybe help them in some way. But I think that this site could learn something from this wonderful chat site Christianchat.com, the way they operate, and the way people conduct themselves.
I am very critical of those that falsely accuse and attack the individual here and are mockers, but I have none of that trouble at this other site. The contrast was incredible. The atmosphere was completely different in a good sense. There wasn't that heavy you better believe our doctrines or else attitude.
It was open, free and yet decently and in order, and I saw no abuse. By the way, the other site has experienced bad situations where people took advantage, they have learned by experience how to correct those problems while maintaining a friendly, supportive and inclusive and excepting environment.
This unfortunately is a sad commentary of contrast. Look, there are wonderful people here, but some here are over the top in their accusatory attitudes and lack of tolerance of any thing they disagree with.
One should retain an open mind for the truth, as well as respecting divergent views, thats why the founding fathers of this country installed the First Amendment. Some of you would like to stop certain views that you don't like. The Freedom of Speech etc. allows for ideas to flourish, and hopefully the best ideas, learning and wisdom and knowledge will win out in the end.
You may have not understood 'tongues' The Holy Spirit will give one the gift of tongues to share Jesus with someone who cannot understand their language. For example if I am in China and I need to share Jesus with someone who speaks Chinese, the Holy Spirit will give me this gift to share Jesus with this Chinese. He will be converted not just from what I say but by seeing a a miracle, knowing that I spoke to him in a tongue or language am not able to speak.
Foreign languages, then, are meant to be a sign, not for believers, but for unbelievers, while prophecy is meant, not for unbelievers, but for believers.1 Corinthians 14:22
Now if the whole church gathers in the same place and everyone is speaking in foreign languages, when uneducated people or unbelievers come in, they will say that you are out of your mind, won't they? 1 Corinthians 14:23
But if everyone is prophesying, when an unbeliever or an uneducated person comes in he will be convicted and examined by everything that's happening. 1 Corinthians 14:24
Jesus told His followers, "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" (Matthew 28:19). This command posed a problem. How could the apostles go out preaching to all the world when they spoke only one or two languages? After all, Jesus' disciples were very bright, even though most of them were not formally educated. In order to fulfill the great commission, He promised to give them a unique gift from the Holy Spirit. It was a miraculous, supernatural ability to speak foreign languages they had not formerly studied or known for the purpose of spreading the Gospel.
"And these signs shall follow them that believe; ... they shall speak with new tongues" (Mark 16:17).
The fact that Jesus said these new tongues, or languages, would be a "sign" indicates that the ability to speak them would not come as the result of normal linguistic study. Rather, it would be an instantaneous gift to fluently preach in a previously unfamiliar language.
There are only three actual examples of speaking in tongues recorded in the Bible (Acts chapters 2, 10, and 19). If we look at these three cases, we should find a clearer picture of this controversial gift.
"When the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven [divided] tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance" (Acts 2:1-4).
Why did the Lord wait until Pentecost to bestow this gift? Acts 2:5-11 sets the scene: "And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? ... We do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God."
The day of Pentecost was a Jewish holy day that fell 50 days after Passover. Devoted Israelites would come from all over the Roman empire to worship in Jerusalem. God chose this timely opportunity to bestow this gift of tongues upon the disciples so they could preach to the visiting Jews in their native languages. At least 15 different language groups were represented in the crowd that day (Acts 2:9-11)! As a result, thousands of these visitors were converted. Then, after Pentecost, they in turn carried their new faith home to their respective countries.
From this example it should be very clear that the gift of tongues was given to communicate the gospel in different existing languages of the world.
It is also sometimes suggested that the gift of tongues is a "heavenly language" understood only by God or those with the gift of interpretation. The Bible is clear in Acts chapter 2 that both the disciples and those listening understood what was being preached-"the wonderful works of God" (Verse 11).
The second example when Peter preached to Cornelius and his household: "While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God" (Acts 10:44-46).
The third and final example of speaking in tongues is when Paul preached to 12 Ephesian disciples. Acts 19:6 records, "And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied."
Paul was the most educated and widely traveled of the apostles, and he spoke many languages (1 Corinthians 14:18). When the Holy Spirit came upon these 12 Ephesian men, Paul recognized that they were prophesying, or preaching, in new languages. Most likely they spoke in languages common throughout the Roman Empire, since that would be practical for spreading the Gospel. Luke does not say that they received a form of tongues different from the first two examples, so we must assume that it was the same type of gift given at Pentecost.
You'll find that the only times the gift of tongues was associated with the outpouring of the Holy Spirit is when people from more than one language group were gathered together, thus creating communication barriers.
Notice that in Acts chapter 4 you have a repeat of the experience described in chapter 2. The place was shaken and they were filled with the Holy Spirit, but because there were no foreigners present, the gift of tongues was absent. Acts 4:31 says, "And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness."
The purpose for the baptism of the Holy Spirit is not to mutter or babble unintelligible sounds, but rather to have power for preaching. This is why Jesus said, "But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth" (Acts 1:8).
Whew thanks a lot Jason for educating the uneducated when its comes to the Biblical use of the gift of tongues. You saved me a whole lot of time and explaining as to what constitutes Biblical tongue speaking and the use of said gift.
One question I have for those who insist that it is a heavenly language born out of a necessity to communicate with God in His own language apparently is that if one who babbles in an unknown language does not really understand what he is saying, so if one asks God for something using said "heavenly language" how does one know if the prayer is answered especially if one does not understand.
Remember people claim they are speaking mysteries and secrets etc. So how do they know what is being said or requested from God if they themselves do not know what they are asking?
I heard people say "things" like and I say "things" because its not any word that's humanly comprehensible such as ra ba sha ta cor sa ra ta ra bah ro bonto....
Does God speak like this? So what exactly is being asked when people use these unintelligible syllables?
Sounds like something out of Star Trek - Klingon language if you ask me.
God himself is not able to understand their babble. Tongue speaking (babble) is a form of demon possession.
To those who love to babble and mutter Paul had a message for you: If anyone speaks in a foreign language, only two or three at the most should do so, one at a time, and somebody must interpret. If an interpreter is not present, the speaker should remain silent in the church and speak to himself and God. 1 Corinthians 14:27, 28
Paul is here saying that if no one understands what you are saying when you speak in tongues or a foreign language then you should keep your mouth shut. What's the point of speaking to someone when he/she is unable to understand you, unless there is an interpreter?
Indeed, brothers, if I come to you speaking in foreign languages, what good will I be to you unless I speak to you in some revelation, knowledge, prophecy, or teaching? 1 Corinthians 14:6
It is truly amazing that some people take some passages and use it as an excuse to babble during services! The consistent message of Paul throughout Scripture is the very opposite. In 1 Timothy 6:20, he specifically mentions "avoiding profane and vain babblings." And in 2 Timothy 2:16, Paul repeats that counsel: "But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness." In other words, the very purpose for the gift of speech is to communicate your thoughts. If those present do not understand your communication, then keep silent.
My view regarding this matter is: - So long as the theme of this social page is known, anything that might contravene it must be openly restricted. But not harshly done. We are to be upright to what we believe and learn in Scripture. Being upright and harsh are two different things. You better be upright than harsh...Even Christ himself was very serious with people who broke rules and formalities He made. But all must be done in a pleasing manner
I give up really I do. You do not read nor listen too well.
And as Jason asked what do you consider speaking in tongues to be?
And you did not answer my question about as to whether you keep the commandments of God or not. All I hear and read is 9 manifestations of the "holy spirit".
I will reiterate my point very clearly to you as I think you are one thick in the skull (since you labelled some on here to be) that as Adventists our only rule of faith is the Bible and Bible alone. If anyone including yourself does not speak according to the teachings of this Holy Book then there is no truth in them.
I find no truth in you, not a single shred of truth. And mocker, lol you label me a mocker but yet you are the one casting not stones but rocks. As I said above if you are without sin cast the first stone but no you decided to drop a mountain on me.
Brother French I am a sinner, I need Jesus and I need His saving grace, that's all I know and that's all I want to know and I want you to know that He can save you too if you just leave your ego at the door.
Lol you label me a despiser, now what do you have that I could possibly want hey? Your nine (9) manifestations of the "holy spirit"? See I have enough sense to capitalise Holy Spirit because I know Who He is to me. Clearly you don't!
Anyway I am done conversing with you and as Paul admonished that if a person does not listen you dust your feet and walk away.
And by the way I am not part of any clicks etc, I just speak the plain word as I have learnt from God's Holy Book.
Now do you keep the commandments of God or not as they are still binding on us?
I quoted to you scriptures which are commandments of The Lord, you don't believe the Apostle Paul, Jesus or me, even regarding the written word on these Godly spiritual matters or things.
Therefore, I will let you remain ignorant,
Boy, you said it brother. There ain't no control on this site. Here its run by the extremists. There is zero interest in outreaching to others. It is a club only for the 'elect.'
I see that the Orthodox Guardians have come out to play as you predicted. And it's testament to this site's philosophy that they run rampant. This is the testimony of this site's administrators, which probably agrees with the Orthodox Guardians. Why else do they reign free here.
Tomas: "I see that the Orthodox Guardians have come out to play as you predicted. And it's testament to this site's philosophy that they run rampant. This is the testimony of this site's administrators, which probably agrees with the Orthodox Guardians. Why else do they reign free here."
Tomas: " There ain't no control on this site. Here its run by the extremists. There is zero interest in outreaching to others. It is a club only for the 'elect.'"
Hey brother Tomas, what's the problem, I know you have issues with a few here, I stress few, so to say this site has no control is not the reality IMHO brother... Being a guardian is not a bad thing my brother, they are more like watchman, the True Guardian is the Holy Spirit. I believe everyone is call to defend what they believe, only way to see if it's true is go to the Bible. But to engage in that work, one must have the Fruits of the Spirit at all times while discussing. If not, then " silence is eloquence".
EGW: "We need spiritual eyesight, that we may see the designs of the enemy, and as faithful watchmen proclaim the danger. We need power from above, that we may understand, as far as the human mind can, the great themes of Christianity and their far-reaching principles. Those who are under the influence of the Spirit of God will not be fanatical, but calm and steadfast, free from extravagance in thought, word, or deed. Amid the confusion of delusive doctrines, the Spirit of God will be a guide and a shield to those who have not resisted the evidences of truth, silencing every other voice but that which comes from Him who is the truth."
I don't know how you feel about EGW, if she was inspired or not, but I think we can agree those words should inspire a person to be better in conversion, to stay "...calm and steadfast, free from extravagance in thought, word, or deed.". If those who stand up for her aren't doing that, then what are you really doing? If your not calm and steadfast, and your extravagant in word and deed, though you may think your doing a good work, that's not the case. Self enters and it's all down hill after that.
I'm sorry, anyway, I don't believe this site has lost control though, it does has it's... lets say passionate people :-/, who might not have the right Spirit all the time.. but no way does it out weigh those who discuss in a good Spirit and are not "extremists". Brothers like Stewart, and I haven't heard from him in a while, brother JohnB, Rush, and so many more, who conversant in the right Spirit most of the time.
I'm trying to get there, pray for me as I will for you and AO, it should be a place where we can learn from each other, and be corrected as well, because as we know everyone here doesn't have SDA beliefs, and that's fine, just get ready to back up what you believe and let the Truth shine through, it always shuts up error, I like what EGW says
EGW: "...Amid the confusion of delusive doctrines, the Spirit of God will be a guide and a shield to those who have not resisted the evidences of truth, silencing every other voice but that which comes from Him who is the truth."."
Blessings to you! :)
Thomas the Doubter
Good to see you back holding up the end for the liberators, come hell or high water.