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I have met and known of several women (in the church) who have been lied to or deceived into  getting into relationships by our men. We need more honesty from our men. Discuss.

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Redva I've also met men who have been deceived by women in the church. Since relationships are unique, we risk making generalizations that may not be very useful. And the debate also risks degenerating into a gender issue, which should not be the case. Ho big is bit time?

 

The quotes below from SOP may be useful in guiding this debate.

Demoralizing Practices in Marriage. In this age of our world the marriage vows are often disregarded. God never designed that marriage should cover the multitude of sins that are practiced. Sensuality and base practices in a marriage relation are educating the mind and moral taste for demoralizing practices outside the marriage relation.  {TSB 87.1}
     God is purifying a people to have clean hands and pure hearts to stand before Him in the judgment. The standard must be elevated, the imagination purified; the infatuation clustering around debasing practices must be given up, and the soul uplifted to pure thoughts, holy practices. All who will stand the test and trial just before us, will be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped, not participated in, the corruptions that are in the world through lust.  {TSB 87.2}

      Marriage Not Designed to Cover Sensuality and Base Practices.--God never designed that marriage should cover the multitude of sins that are practiced. Sensuality and base practices in a marriage relation are educating the mind and moral taste for demoralizing practices outside the marriage relation.--RH, May 24, 1887.  {1MCP 223.4}
     Sexual Excesses Endangering Health and Life.--It is not pure, holy love which leads the wife to gratify the animal propensities of her husband at the expense of health and life....

224  {1MCP 223.5}
     It may be necessary to humbly and affectionately urge, even at the risk of his displeasure, that she cannot debase her body by yielding to sexual excess. She should, in a tender, kind manner, remind him that God has the first and highest claim upon her entire being and that she cannot disregard this claim, for she will be held accountable in the great day of God.--2T 475 (1870).  {1MCP 224.1}
     Sexual excess will effectually destroy a love for devotional exercises, will take from the brain the substance needed to nourish the system, and will most effectively exhaust the vitality.--2T 477 (1870).  {1MCP 224.2}
     Perversion of a Sacred Institution.--Because they have entered into the marriage relation, many think that they may permit themselves to be controlled by animal passions. They are led on by Satan, who deceives them and leads them to pervert this sacred institution. He is well pleased with the low level which their minds take; for he has much to gain in this direction.  {1MCP 224.3}
     He knows that if he can excite the baser passions and keep them in the ascendancy, he has nothing to be troubled about in their Christian experience; for the moral and intellectual faculties will be subordinate, while the animal propensities will predominate and keep in the ascendancy; and these baser passions will be strengthened by exercise, while the nobler qualities will become weaker and weaker.--2T 480 (1870).  {1MCP 224.4}
     The Abuse in Marriage of Sexual Privileges.--The animal passions, cherished and indulged, become very strong in this age, and untold evils in the marriage life are the sure results. In the place of the mind being developed and having the controlling power, the animal propensities rule over the higher and nobler powers until they are brought into subjection to the animal propensities. What is the result? Women's delicate organs are worn out and become diseased; childbearing is no more safe; sexual privileges are abused.


                                                    225  {1MCP 224.5}
     Men are corrupting their own bodies, and the wife has become a bed servant to their inordinate, base lusts until there is no fear of God before their eyes. To indulge impulse that degrades both body and soul is the order of the marriage life.--MS 14, 1888.  {1MCP 225.1}
     Prenatal Influences.--Satan seeks to debase the minds of those who unite in marriage that he may stamp his own hateful image upon their children. . . .  {1MCP 225.2}
     He can mold their posterity much more readily than he could the parents, for he can so control the minds of the parents that through them he may give his own stamp of character to their children. Thus many children are born with the animal passions largely in the ascendancy, while the moral faculties are but feebly developed. These children need the most careful culture to bring out, strengthen, and develop the moral and intellectual powers, that these may take the lead.--2T 480 (1870).  {1MCP 225.3}
     The Degrading Process.--The mind of a man or woman does not come down in a moment from purity and holiness to depravity, corruption, and crime. It takes time to transform the human to the divine or to degrade those formed in the image of God to the brutal or the satanic.  {1MCP 225.4}
     By beholding we become changed. Though formed in the image of his Maker, man can so educate his mind that sin which he once loathed will become pleasant to him. As he ceases to watch and pray, he ceases to guard the citadel, the heart, and engages in sin and crime. The mind is debased, and it is impossible to elevate it from corruption while it is being educated to enslave the moral and intellectual powers and bring them in subjection to grosser passions.  {1MCP 225.5}
     Constant war against the carnal mind must be maintained; and we must be aided by the refining influence of the grace of God, which will attract the mind upward and habituate it to meditate upon pure and holy things.--2T 478, 479 (1870).

226  {1MCP 225.6}
     Counsel to Women.--I write with a distressed heart that the women in this age, both married and unmarried, too frequently do not maintain the reserve that is necessary. They act like coquettes. They encourage the attentions of single and married men, and those who are weak in moral power will be ensnared.  {1MCP 226.1}
     These things, if allowed, deaden the moral senses and blind the mind so that crime does not appear sinful. Thoughts are awakened that would not have been if woman had kept her place in all modesty and sobriety. She may have had no unlawful purpose or motive herself, but she has given encouragement to men who are tempted and who need all the help they can get from those associated with them.  {1MCP 226.2}
     By being circumspect, reserved, taking no liberties, receiving no unwarrantable attentions, but preserving a high moral tone and a becoming dignity, much evil might be avoided.--MS 4a, 1885. (AH 331, 332.)  {1MCP 226.3}
     Women as Tempters.--Shall not the women professing the truth keep strict guard over themselves lest the least encouragement be given to unwarrantable familiarity? They may close many a door of temptation if they will observe at all time strict reserve and propriety of deportment.--5T 602 (1889).  {1MCP 226.4}
     Women are too often tempters. On one pretense or another they engage the attention of men, married or unmarried, and lead them on till they transgress the law of God, till their usefulness is ruined, and their souls are in jeopardy.--5T 596 (1889).  {1MCP 226.5}

Dan thanks much for the information in these quotations. Honestly I am seeing some of these quotes for the first time. This is useful information.However in me clear up the statement / phrase, " ... deceived big time." I here refer to information, facts and truths that should have been shared or divulged in a serious dating relationship  bthat was hidden until marriage that becomes a shock and leads to mistrust.

You were so right in saying that it works both ways, from either male or the female so this must be considered in the discussion. In a relationship there should be full and open disclosure. There should be nothing hidden from each other that should should be discovered after the cementing. For example with 6 children did no reveal this to his date but the children showed up unaware after the marriage. These are what I refer o as big time deception.

 

You want to know what's shameful. A young honest Bible worker who has decided to go to a foreign country in the jungle and work to win the indiginous people there because she is constantly being hit on by adventist men of all levels from pastors back down. She was touched by a pastor and even propositioned by some well to do members. She told them off, but she is tired of it.This is what we have sunk to. Reminds me odf the time when the children of Israel were close to the promised land when the enemy sent harlots into the camp.

Gordan

 

It has been my observation that when a woman is constantly being "hit on," that she needs to look at her own behavior, dress and way of interacting with men. 

 

I am reminded of a story that transpired in my own living room.  My wife and I had stood by a lady whose husband was dying in a nursing home.  After the funeral, she and her mother were visiting in our home, before returning to their homes.  They soon shared a story about a man in the mother's home church who, according to them, was always rubbing the backs of the women, their rendition, not mine, to feel their bra straps.  Again, that was their story, not my slant. 

 

Well, while it was cool outside, our home was warm and the mother went to take off her sweater (a pullover) and instead took everything off.  Since she was older and on the portly side, my wife and I treated it as a funny situation and just laughed it off.   The point of the story being that while they were so concerned about this man in their church, their own behavior (and I did not tell it all) left much room to be improved.  It came across as their seeing in this man something they wished he was doing, not necessarily what He was doing.

 

These women put on a very saintly persona, but, when you got to know them, it soon became obvious it was more of a facade. 

 

Another woman that I knew of made all kinds of charges of the nature that you shared.  Yet, if you knew her, she was the one who was more guilty of those things than the men she accused.  On the level of the charges Casey Anthony made against her father and brother.  It is easy for a pretty face to put on the "abused face."  Again, when someone is always claiming that others are abusing them, watch out, it is very likely that they are inviting it, than using the situation to portray themselves as the hero, or victim.  Such might happen once or even twice in a person's life.  But when it becomes a pattern, they need to be questioned, not the  ones they are accusing.

 

Maranatha :)
Ray

 

 

Ray I know that there are some very loose women around even in offices in the 'militant. church. Some of them give the men a hard time. I wonder if this mother and daughter get some of the 'massage from that man in the church lol.

I was assigned as an elder to a new church about 6yrs ago. One day a brother/ deacon came to me with a plant which I accepted. Another time he told me he had something else for me. I told him ok. Then he brought me a magazine. I was shocked when I opened it. Naked people and positions to kill- pornographic magazine the deacon gave me.

 

Another experience, There is a senior pastor- married man (he is not the only one) who begged me on several occasions to go out with him. I tried to avoid him. I went to a wedding at the church he pastor and after the wedding he came to look for me and gave me a paper with his numbers and ask me to call him. I didn't. He got my email address and sent me mail, I did not respond. He eventually stopped. I won't tell you what eventually happened to him recently- figure it out.

 

I could give you several experiences only to say, they are wasting their time trying. I am a hard nut to crack. I value myself highly. I married (deceived into it) as an inexperience and an mature young woman 1n 1975 about 2 yrs after leaving height school and shortly after my mother died. After her death (things change) my father showed no interest in my education and did not want he to finish my last year in high school. Then too, a brother moved in the house with his wife. They ill treated  me and i would do anything to get out of the house. It was at that time (weakest moments) that my girlfriend from school who use to stay over with me introduced her brother (tall, dark, handsome Christian, Literature Evangelist)  to me. Without even getting to know him or the family we were engaged and in no time did a private wedding. When I went home with him I realized that everything he told me was a lie. From that day I started crying and I cried for years. I tried everything to get the marriage to work but it just did not. Have a pair of children in that marriage. The man was a womanizer, an abuser, a smoker, and a dangerous lair. I separated from home over 19 yrs now then i eventually divorced. I have been living as a single Christian woman (untouched )for over 19 years. No man can fool me again, I am not young and giddy or needy. While I have asked the Lord for  real good loving, Christian man/ husband I am still waiting on Him. When God blesses me with such a one he too will be blessed  and coveted to have me. Help me pray for such a one.

 

Just to share with you that the deceptions come in all forms.

In that second line should be 'immature' and not mature

This is both ways issue, but the ladies to get themselves more up dated, currently start to copying the men, losing their virginity before marriage and trying to have more experiences before getting married, involving or not sex! The feminist movement brought helpful stuff, but on other hand have been lessening the level of feminine side!

Be mature not means to get to the same way that men behaves! Cos is shameful even for men!

Blessings

I know Bennett that there are women who lower, cheapen themselves to get a man and so they open themselves to deception. But there are chase, virtuous women  (men too) who althought decent and upright in their approach are still deceived.
Gordon, a pastor who was always making passes at me said, "I am an ordinary man like anyone else. On Sabbaths I am Pastor So and So but during the week i am another man." My dear I understand what we are all talking about. We need to agonize for the church.
That is a very sad philosophy on his end. We all need to be very careful about how we act. Satan is working very hard to paint us in with the world and when we act in such ways we are enabling him. Good topic Redva, thank you.

Thanks my Bro Jonathan. We as God.s chosen, called out people must understand our mission, that it is no ordinary call.

the topic was posted because it is current, topical, relevant and important. I really pray and hope that if any of my online brethren (bro & sis) who have been planning or practicing deception of any form will take stock and change.

Redva

It is so sad, afraid not because of strangers and aliens but because of their own brethren.

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