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I have met and known of several women (in the church) who have been lied to or deceived into  getting into relationships by our men. We need more honesty from our men. Discuss.

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Amen to that brother!

REDEVA

 

First of all, I see a mistake in what I presented.  Not yours, mine.  I wrote:

"What I have seen is that women are on the hunt for a husband and when things get out of hand,"

What I intended to say was:

"From what I have seen, when a woman is on the hunt for a husband etc."

I appologize for my mistake in this comment.  I guess I was tired.  Oh, I know, some little demon changed what I was trying to say. ROFL at myself.

 

Yes, I probably did tell my story a little different this time because I was trying to bring out a different aspect of my experience.  All I was trying to do was place a balance on the discussion.  That this is a sin problem and not exclusive to either gender.


Maranatha :)
Ray

 

Thanks my friend, apology accepted.

Bro Ray I was under pressure at school today, I could not scratch my head- dealing with the registration of new students.

I was expecting you to comment on my experiences cited and their relevance to the topic under discussion. Do you see the deception in any of them?

REDEVA

 

Oh, there is deceiption in those experiences.  That I have not denied  The only point I was making that things are often, not always, not as they appear on the surface. 

 

As the Bible says:

     "There is a way that seems right to a man,
        but its end is the way to death."   Proverbs 14:12 (ESV)  Also see Proverbs 16:25.

Another thing I have learned is that I cannot change you and you cannot change me.  Oh, believe me, many have tried. LOL  And, yes, I have to admit that I have fallen into that trap myself.  However, I also find that I have a full time job keeping myself surrendered to the Holy Spirit and co-operating with Him in the cleansing of my own life.  I am far too busy doing that to attempt to change others. 

 

Another thing I have noticed, and this is not well recieved, which is that when I get my own attitudes and life style where it should be, that the lives of others do not look nearly as bad.  Or at least I see them in a different light. 

 

Oh, there are many of both genders out there who try to decieve and who are trying to pull the wool over one's eyes.  I contantly get "pop ups" on my computer screen with suggestions from some women for a life style that I am not interested in.  Virtually never is it a man who  is featured.  Of course maybe they only send the ones from men to the women, I don't know. 

 

Also, if you read through the Bible, there is this reoccuring theme.

    "And to Adam he said,
    "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife . . . . .."  Genesis 3:17 (ESV)  
    "And Sarai said to Abram, "Behold now, the Lord has prevented me from . ". . . .. And Abram listened to the voice of Sarai." Genesis 16:2 (ESV)  
 

Jacob listened to the voice of Rebekah and decieved his father.  And the list goes on.  So, it is hardly the men who have a corner on being decieptive.  It is a trans gender problem.

 

Maranatha :)
Ray

 

 

The examples you cited are factual as coming from the Bible, but remember in Bible times men were predominantly the leaders. They were not expected to listen to or follow the instruction of the women, therefore you find those Biblical account. Even in counting, only men were counted and women a children mentioned in addition to.

Men and women are now leaders and heads of household (because of sin of course) they are therefore equally important and counted.

My stories that I gave they are just as they are on the surface and below the surface and I know of other women (many cases) who have been deceived similarly. I can also tell you of men who I know have been deceived by women too but the truth is most of the deceiver I have come across are men.

REDEVA

 

Well, I would hope that most of the deceiption that you have come across is by men.  That would be expected.  Likewise, most of the deceiption that I have come across is from women, as would be expected.

 

Unless we are willing to factor in that aspect of human relationships, we will not come to an unbiased opinion on this issue or any other like it. 

 

You spoke about women being heads of various enterprises.  As to whether that is in God's plan or not, I would not suggest an answer.  What I do know is that God never intended women to be the ordained spiritual leadership.  That the Bible is most clear on.  Even those who advocate it readily admit that it is patterned after our society, not a result of any instructions in the Bible to ordain women. 

 

IF, and I said: "IF" that is the pattern for all of life, well, draw your own concludions (you will anyhow. LOL)  .  Oh, I am aware of many of the forces in society that has pushed women into seeking those positions.  However, again, the issue is this:

"Do we let society press us into it's mold, or do we mold society?" 

 

One factor that I came across when counseling troubled marriages, was that I never remember a woman telling me that it was her mistakes that caused the problems in the marriage, while men often admited they had failed.  In listening to both sides, I felt that the women were not being honest with themselves, me or God.  Those who are not able to admit their mistakes are prone to repeat them endlessly, until they face up to them.  This applies to all humans, and the last I knew, women were still human. LOL

 

A major reason, I feel, that women have such a difficult time admitting mistakes is that they seem to feel that if they do, their credibility is threatened.  When in reality, not admitting obvious mistaked threatens their credibility more than admitting they made a mistake. 

 

A lady friend, who my late wife and I adopted as a daughter, is a prime example of this.  She has to be an expert on everything.  Even things she knows zero about.  Like auto mechanics.  Recently an issue came up and she even defied technitians who work in the field and are certified professionals  Yet, she believes that she knows more than they do.

 

Again I state what I stated before.  We cannot change the other person.  However, we can change, with God's strength, ourselves.  That is what we need to focus on.

 

Maranatha :)
Ray

 

 

 

'Well, I would hope that most of the deception that you have come across is by men.  That would be expected.  Likewise, most of the deception that I have come across is from women, as would be expected.'

 

Ray I don't agree with the statement above at all especially, would be expected  

This phrase is bias and really not true. I have alluded to cases of deception by women. I seems tat in my context, the men are the perpetrators but it is vice versa in your context or location.  

 

I cannot recall saying the statement in the first sentence below.  Also, that enter statement quoted below is a serious moot point. I have see success, spiritual women leaders in the Bible and they were backed by God. The Bible did not say women should not lead. The Gospel commission to go tech, preach, an baptize is for all - man / woman. This in essence is a a called to servant leadership. Ordination is man's design. God call and sends whosoever will. I know you refer to Paul's writing but be honest, if all the women go to church, sit in the pews and listen with their mouths shut, what will happen. Only the men will go to heaven or get all the stars in their crowns. Come on Ray, the churches are predominately female. This  (below) is a serious moot statement

 

 

You spoke about women being heads of various enterprises.  As to whether that is in God's plan or not, I would not suggest an answer.  What I do know is that God never intended women to be the ordained spiritual leadership.  That the Bible is most clear on.  Even those who advocate it readily admit that it is patterned after our society, not a result of any instructions in the Bible to ordain women. 

 

The counselling issue and your friends saga are separate and individual cases and as such not a wide enough sample to use generally.

REDEVA

 

You did not pick up on what I was saying, when I wrote:

'Well, I would hope that most of the deception that you have come across is by men.  That would be expected.  Likewise, most of the deception that I have come across is from women, as would be expected.'

What I was referring to is the fact that the closest bonds that are formed are between men and women, not women and women or men and men.  Therefore it would be expected that being decieved by the opposite sex would be more natural.  In this setting, I do not see that your response would really be an accurate one to what I wrote or intended to be understood. 

 

So, what is new that people have misunderstood what the other person has said? LOL

 

The issue of ordaining women has been discussed at length.  It is not biblical, that is even admitted to by the most early and most vigerous  proponents of the practice.  Until someone can produce a passage from the Bible giving such instruction, the practice continues to be unbiblical. 

 

Maranatha :)
Ray

 

 

True Christina - deceived and disrespected.

Christiana and Redva, 

I have to agree with Ray, and this is not a male thing. You would be appalled to know how many times women hit on men. The thing is that females are more subtle in their approaches, but men know when they are being hit on. The problem is across the board and is not limited to one gender. Fact is, there are sinners in the church, there will always be sinners in the church. The saints need to put their trust in our only deliverer, Jesus Christ. Only he can help us deal righteously with the situation. If we are surrendered to Him, as each situation arise and like Nehemiah we whisper a pray for guidance, He will show us how to respond so that maybe the brother or sister will be led to repent and be converted. At times we become disgusted and are tempted to expose the person, but this is not the council of the Lord. Let's walk in His way.

Well Russell here you are speaking sense and balance now, different from the previous post. We need to take responsibility for our own soul salvation.

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