Over many years I’ve noted a surprising penchant for defaming the victim and defending the perpetrator. Which makes me wonder: If the Gethsemane story had taken place in, let’s say, 2012, what kind of support would Judas get in readers’ comments when news of the betrayal first breaks on Spectrum a couple of hours after Jesus’ arrest? I can only imagine . . .
free_from_sin: I can assure you, there’s a lot more to this story than meets the eye. Somebody’s trying to bring Judas down. And it’s pretty easy to figure out why. I mean, I’ve seen some good treasurers in my time, but Judas leaves the others for dead when it comes to financial wizardry. But let him have just a momentary lapse of judgment, and everybody’s jumping all over him like he’s the worst person to ever walk the face of the earth. Have they forgotten all the good he’s done? Have they forgotten how he turned around the financial picture for the Disciples Club? How would they like to be treated that way? Where’s the grace the liberals are always touting?
E.G.W.FORME: I don’t believe it happened. It’s a rumor. Judas is just being framed. It’s one big lie. A lot of people are envious of his education, his refinement, his impeccable taste in clothing, his leadership skills, his investment genius, his reputation. People are just sick, sick, SICK, I tell you. They’ll stoop to anything to try to destroy someone who’s successful. And then they’ll gloat over his fall. It’s nothing but jealousy. The devil is celebrating.
Bibletruthtoday: I’m not saying I condone what Judas did. But it’s not like it’s the end of the world, you know. So Jesus got arrested. So what? It may well open new doors for him to witness even more effectively. And I’m sure they’ll release him on his own recognizance in a few hours. So he has to spend a night in jail--big deal! The weather forecast was for rain anyway. So at least he’ll be in a dry place. Quite frankly, I don’t see what all the fuss is about.
judas-deserves-justice: A friend of mine told me that Judas has it all planned out, and this is going to be the most lucrative move the Disciples Club has ever made. Somewhere in all this, Jesus is going to work a really big miracle--and the money is going to come rolling in like never before. This whole thing is going to catapult Jesus from small-time itinerant preacher to superstar media prophet--book contracts, TV shows, mass rallies, internet sales, you name it! It may look like a lemon, but this one is going to be lemonade, for sure! I’ve heard the story has already gone viral!
ResearchingTruth: Check out #judascheekkiss.
Cause-or-Effect-?: I’m not trying to cast blame or anything, but Jesus’ behavior has been a bit embarrassing of late. I mean, eating in the home of Zaccheus? Can you believe that? A tax collector? Doesn’t he at least care about the reputations of his disciples? Even if he is willing to destroy his own credibility? And all those whores who keep hanging around--even dousing him with perfume and then drying it with their hair? That’s freaky by any standard. Doesn’t he get it? I’m not saying Judas did right. But I am saying that it wasn’t without provocation. There are two sides to every story, you know. There’s such a thing as cause and effect. Why do we always pounce on the person who falls rather than the one who provokes?
castthefirststone: I am sick to death of all the bleeding-heart liberals who want to portray everyone as a victim. Now don’t get me wrong, I’m not trying to defend Judas. I’m just saying that what goes around comes around. I mean, if Jesus is going to hurl epithets at the scribes and Pharisees--who are all friends of Judas, by the way--then Jesus can’t expect Judas to forever turn the other cheek. Don’t forget that we’re all human. Every person has his breaking point. If I’d been in Judas’s shoes, I might well have done the same thing.
ExampleFirst: I couldn’t agree more. Don’t forget that Jesus himself had a breaking point. Remember how he lost his temper and raced through the temple court turning over tables and shouting at the money changers. And it was 100 percent premeditated. Need I remind you how he sat there seething while braiding that whip he swung around during his rampage?
Nothing_but_the_truth: The way people jump to conclusions really gets to me. When are we going to learn to limit ourselves to the facts? No judging. No speculating. No surmising. So let me ask: What do we know for sure? I’m sorry to disappoint you, but it’s not the juicy story the anti-Judas crowd is spreading. All we know for sure is that Jesus was in the Garden of Gethsemane. Judas approached him. He kissed Jesus. A mob emerged from the shadows. Jesus was arrested. There’s not one shred of evidence that Judas knew the mob was there behind him or that he was connected with them in any way. That’s nothing but gossip. It’s evil surmising. And we all know what the scriptures say about that.
God’sTheJudge: Isn’t it interesting how the “grace” crowd can’t accept the simple, heartfelt expression of repentance that Judas has given. He’s says he’s sorry. Why can’t we take his statement at face value? Who are we to question his sincerity on the basis of tone of voice, body language, eye contact, word content, ongoing behavior and a long list of other totally irrelevant distractions? The man says he’s sorry. Take him as his word. He’s been through enough without having to be called a liar as well. It says something that the “gracers” are so selective in who they think deserves grace. Just once I’d like to see them practice what they preach.
THANK GOD I’M NOT. . .: I just got a text from Judas. He said he’s truly sorry for what he did. He said there’s enough money in the treasury to spring bail for Jesus, if it’s needed. He also noted that it will be sunrise in a couple of hours. So once Jesus is out of jail, everyone can walk down to the Jordan, Judas can be rebaptized, and we can all get back to a normal life once again. Like I said, there’s no question but what Judas is repentant. He’s made that clear to every person he’s talked to for at least the past hour. And as he pointed out to me, it wasn’t actually his fault in the first place. He was provoked by the way Jesus humiliated him in front of the other disciples while they were partaking of the bread and wine at the Passover. Anybody would have done what he did. And don’t forget, in the long run, the publicity surrounding all this will make Jesus and the Disciples Club even more effective. As Judas has always understood (but a lot of others can’t seem to get): Even bad news can be good news in today’s media. But don’t hold your breath that any bleeding-heart liberals are going to show the slightest bit of compassion for the most laudable disciple Jesus ever had.
Art: Damien Hirst, Judas Iscariot (The Twelve Disciples), 1994.
Such an article most certainly does nothing to advance the reputation of Spectrum. Oh, I saw the inuendos there. I also saw the blapheme there too. If this is the standard of writing that James Coffin and Spectrum hold to, they certainly fall far short.
???????????/ what in the world is this ?? You cant take what happened back then and place it in a modern scenario and have the same results . it is close o contempt o f court, the value system today is far different then in these simplier times of History .. WHY bring something like this anyway into the forum?/ what value has it or what can be learned except journisim at its worse and truths that are easily seen now made to appear as Miisguidedness ??? / why make excuses for evil ? SHAME ON YOU .I thought better of this place then this .
What we are seeing is a prime example of personal opinion superceding the facts. The prejudicil idea is that all women who are violated by men are the victims, while anytime a sexual encounter occurs outside of marriage, it is because some man cannot control himself and since he is bigger then his "victim" he can force himself on her. This idea ignores many facts of life.
This simplistic belief ignores reality.
One factor that is ignored is this. As is readily recognized, men are very visual creatures, while women are very tactile. So, when women parade around in their "undies," this stimulates men, until they become so jaded, or are converted, so that it becomes disgusting to them.
So, if a man has been stimulated by all of the gratis stimulation that we see all around us, then when they are in a setting where fulfillment of the ideas that have been implanted in their mind as well as their natural desires; is possible, it becomes an overpowering temptation, and they follow through with it. This is a generalization, and much more could be writted about it, but not here. Then when the "victim" becomes truely a victim, she is really the victim of all of the women who feel that they can dress any way they want to and be guiltless about it.
After all, God made men to be attracted to women and women to be attracted to men, just like He made the law of gravity to work. We cannot defy those laws and not get hurt. So the idea that all victims are in fact innocent, or that all victims are guilty is as faulty of an idea as that the moon is made of green cheese.
There are far too many examples of women who use their womenly wiles to entice a man, then when they get what they were asking for all the time, if they find it was not what they wanted, which almost always happens the next morning for both parties, then they claim that they are a victim and the "dirty ole man" made them do it. And then there are examples where men force themselves on women and they are indeed "dirty ole men." There are plenty of examples on both sides of the question.
THe problem comes when the "victim" and the "perpetrator" become so generic that one comes to believe that everyone fits into the category we have placed them in.
Each individual and each situation is unique. Some, of both genders, are so slick in manimpulating things that they can make themselves look innocent and even convince themselves that they are innocent. This is because of the statement in the Bible that reads:
"Every way of a (hu)man is right in his own eyes, but the Lord weighs the heart." Proverbs 21:2 (ESV)
So, the problem comes in establishing categories, without taking into consideration the uniquenss of every situation. When that factor is removed, there will be miscarriages of justice and in some cases, reputations and lived will be destroyed.
This is ridiculous.
And one thing I DO agree with was this line, which Spectrum doesnt care about..
Nothing_but_the_truth: The way people jump to conclusions really gets to me. When are we going to learn to limit ourselves to the facts? No judging. No speculating. No surmising.
Anyone remember the DINGO??? EVERYONE just KNEW they did it.. As it turns out, they did NOT..
Point being, WERE YOU THERE??
I dont get all the defense OF a guy who might have raped a young woman. But, I also know I WAS NOT THERE... Not ONLY was I not there, I also have NOT ONE SHRED of personal association WITH this, and can therefore put forth no opinion that may help EITHER party..
And neither can YOU and niether can Spectrum.. Also, this is probably a push to stop something the man has said. Like, he probably disagrees with something Sarah and Spectrum believe.. So now there is a witch hunt, I need to find out what this man has spoken against and for. I think therein lies a clue to the posting of all this about a situation that is still ongoing and unsettled..
The main thing that he spoke against was the ordination of women to the pastoral ministry. Since that is a pet project of Spectrum, it's safe to assume that is why they are so bent to destroying him.
While that is what I believe, please don't let that lead you to believe that I support what he did, I don't.
Yes, the story of the Australian Dingo and the family accused of killing thier child is an excellent example. A prime case of preconcieved ideas clouding the perceptions of the facts so that they became skewed and in fact wrong.
Here two lives were destroyed as well as bringing a cloud on the church and the accusations turned out to be totally false. And all of this when there was evidence that was being ignored that supported the story that was told. Just how was God honored in that situation?
Your illustration well illustrates the point that I was attempting to make in what I wrote.
You then posted:
"Also, this is probably a push to stop something the man has said. Like, he probably disagrees with something Sarah and Spectrum believe.. So now there is a witch hunt, I need to find out what this man has spoken against and for. I think therein lies a clue to the posting of all this about a situation that is still ongoing and unsettled."
It is assumed that your reference is to Samuel Pipim. While I have not read everything he has written, only his book on the ordination of women, in fact. Several times this has come out at the real reason he is being discredited. For some believe that if you can discredit the messenger, you have discredited the message. Which is not true.
While it is a fact that the life of a messenger of God should be in hamony with what he teaches, not even a prophet is perfect. Take the story of Abraham. He had taken his family to Egypt becasue of a famine. He had agreed with his beautiful wife and half sister, Sarah, that she would tell the people of the land that she was his sister, which was half true, i.e. she was his half sister.
Well, Pharoah wanted her as his wife and so he took her. However, God stepped in and helped Pharoah to know that he was in fact about to take a married woman as a wife for himself. When this came out, he returned her to Abraham and then sent him away.
Abraham did not learn from that experience. After he left Egypt, he came to Gerar and he did the same thing again. This time the Lord appeaed to Abimalech in a dream and warned him that he had been deceived by God's prophet. Notice what God said:
"Now then, return the man's wife, for he is a prophet, so that he will pray for you, and you shall live. But if you do not return her, know that you shall surely die, you, and all who are yours." Genesis 20:7 (ESV)
Even though Abraham was a serial liar, in regards to his relationship with Sarah, God still spoke through him and was not ashamed to call him His prophet. Today, modern psychologist would call him a "serial liar." And as such should never be forgiven and should recieve the fullest punishment of the law.
However, God calls Abraham, His friend. No wonder that I love Jesus so very much. His love is trustworthy.
Do any of your friends make mistakes? Do you stop being their friend becasue they do, even repeatedly? True, it places a strain on the friendship, but do you deny that they are your friend?
This is why it is so necessary to allow God to deal with such situations. God sees, not as man sees. God looks at the person's heart. When we drive people away from God because they stumble and fall, even repeatedly, we are claiming that we know that they can never repent. Which is claiming to know what only God can know. A perennial problem with some people. Yet, even with these, there is still hope that they can catch a glimpse of the character of God and allow Him to control this part of their life. And I have met this kind who champion all kinds of issues.
Being equal with God has been a problem ever since it infected Satan in heaven. Those who think and act like him now, still have that same problem. This is why we must keep our eyes on Jesus and not on others. God is well able to protect His church and His children. He does not need vigilante justice for that.