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Where in Scripture does it say tithing is based on one's income rather than the increase of the land one owned? I came across this passaage by Ellen WHite and it seems Ananias died because He cheated on tithe, yet the Nt Testament doesn't say why exactly they died....only that they lied...

 

All our blessings come from His bountiful hand. In turn, He would have men and women show their gratitude by returning Him a portion in tithes and offerings--in thank offerings, in freewill offerings, in trespass offerings. Should means flow into the treasury in accordance with this divinely appointed plan,--a tenth of all the increase, and liberal offerings,--there would be an abundance for the advancement of the Lord's work.       But the hearts of men become hardened through selfishness, and, like Ananias and Sapphira, they are tempted to withhold part of the price, while pretending to fulfill God's requirements. {AA 75.1} 

 

Is this a NT example of tithe paying gone wrong with a selfish intent?

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Hi Brother Rob. Indeed it says on the increase, not income. Although in most cases the increase is the same as the income. As the text says Ananias was Lying. In the ten commandments its commandment no 9. While the tithe is not mentioned in the commandments. So to answer your question they was not returning a tithe but an offering and was Lying about how much it represented. While God see fit to Kill them because of that eludes me, as you know many crimes is done even worse than what Ananias did and perpetrators walks away with no harm.   

Thanks for the comment Brother Ian....but you did not noitce the Ellen WHite quote...in the context she seems to imply they were killed beacause they kept back part of the tithe,....am I correct in saying this ?

You mention you do not knmow why God killed them for lying to the Holy Spirit, perhaps the tithe is the context here ?

DO you know of any Bible texts where we pay tithe in money rather than in produce, plants or animals ?

Shalom

Yes Rob you are right E G White does say tithe but as we know of the bible text it is clearly not a tithe spoken of in the Bible as I understand it. Why E G White imply it is a tithe I do not clearly follow, I must admit I newer did take a lot of notice before about this passage. I did have another look at the subject in AA and found this:

God has made the proclamation of the gospel dependent upon the labors and the gifts of His people. Voluntary offerings and the tithe constitute the revenue of the Lord’s work. Of the means entrusted to man, God claims a certain portion,—the tenth. He leaves all free to say whether or not they will give more than this. But when the heart is stirred by the influence of the Holy Spirit, and a vow is made to give a certain amount, the one who vows has no longer any right to the consecrated portion. Promises of this kind made to men would be looked upon as binding; are those not more binding that are made to God? Are promises tried in the court of conscience less binding than written agreements of men?{AA 74.2}

Clearly Ananias was making a wow and then changed his mind and held some back. I did see another place where E G White does say that others are doing the same thing without suffering the same penalty. Maybe God was stating an example here?

To my knowledge the Tithe was given in produce. Although I remember Jesus having a problem with the money changers so perhaps the tithe was in form of money then it is not clear. As we know there was a lot of discussions in the Gospels about money so money was used in many transactions.

Thanks again for the reply Brother Ian, much appreciated....

Ac 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

There are no website willing to ask why Ananias died for lying to the Holy Spirit. Were all the early Christians giving 100% of their possessions to the church during this time? If this is the case it explains why Ananais died for being selfish, but it asks a greater question, why don't all modern churches expect the congregation to give all their possessions to the Lord's cause? They don't because the churches today have backsliden into apostasy, the people are selfish or both.

So if we take even the smallest percentage of this as a reason for Ananais' death, they kept back part of even the tithe that naturally never belonged to them to begin with and pretended to give, an offering that did not follow any torah-teaching? That coming from a Hebrew system of tithe giving makes more sense for the death penalty, when God killed people for other public displays of disobedience in the Old Testament, and if the New Testament is no different to the Old Testament, it is the same GOD we serve in Hebrew, then here is evidence that grace and mercy has limits, even in God's new church of Christians. And thus it serves to show an example how kind and loving GOD is, but that also He has hard love as well. And perhaps tithe is just a small token of demonstrating our love response back to GOD.

The SOP supplied in the topic suggests Ellen White would agree with this analysis.
Shalom

Thanks Brother Rob and again as I see it whether Ananias did pay a tithe or not is not clear. But your E G White Quote in the OP does allude to that tithe was not given as you say indeed. The whole story seems a bit confused. Although what is clear is we can not lie to God.

The other thing is that by what you can work out by the story is that the custom was that a 100% was given to the church. That is good when everything goes well, but as we know there was famine in Jerusalem some years later, it seems like the saints was not able to fend for them self, as is evident bu Pauls first letter to the Corinthians.

1 Cor 16:1 Now concerning the money contributed for [the relief of] the saints (God’s people): you are to do the same as I directed the churches of Galatia to do. 2 On the first [day] of each week, let each one of you [personally] put aside something and save it up as he has prospered [in proportion to what he is given], so that no collections will need to be taken after I come. 3 And when I arrive, I will send on those whom you approve and authorize with credentials to carry your gift [of charity] to Jerusalem. (AMP)

After this episode we see nothing about communal living any more in the Bible. Why that is one wonders, was it the selfish heart of the existing church members? Was it another of God's plans that man just could carry out? 

   

When we consider the infinite sacrifice made for the salvation of men we are lost in amazement. When selfishness clamors for the victory in the hearts of men, and they are tempted to withhold their due proportion in any good work, they should strengthen their principles of right by the thought that He who was rich in heaven's priceless treasure turned away from it all and became poor. He had not where to lay His head. And all this sacrifice was in our behalf, that we might have eternal riches.

When we consider how close Ananias was to the time of the Cross, he may even have been a witness to the crucifixion. He may have witnessed the selfless sacrifice, maybe God is holding Ananias to a certain standard, because of this, we may wonder.

Well Brother Rob I have now studied the whole chapter and I found the folowing:

Infinite Wisdom saw that this signal manifestation of the wrath of God was necessary to guard the young church from becoming demoralized. Their numbers were rapidly increasing. The church would have been endangered if, in the rapid increase of converts, men and women had been added who, while professing to serve God, were worshiping mammon. This judgment testified that men cannot deceive God, that He detects the hidden sin of the heart, and that He will not be mocked. It was designed as a warning to the church, to lead them to avoid pretense and hypocrisy, and to beware of robbing God. {AA 73.4}

Not to the early church only, but to all future generations, this example of God’s hatred of covetousness, fraud, and hypocrisy, was given as a danger-signal. It was covetousness that Ananias and Sapphira had first cherished. The desire to retain for themselves a part of that which they had promised to the Lord, led them into fraud and hypocrisy.{AA 74.1}

God has made the proclamation of the gospel dependent upon the labors and the gifts of His people. Voluntary offerings and the tithe constitute the revenue of the Lord’s work. Of the means entrusted to man, God claims a certain portion,—the tenth. He leaves all free to say whether or not they will give more than this. But when the heart is stirred by the influence of the Holy Spirit, and a vow is made to give a certain amount, the one who vows has no longer any right to the consecrated portion. Promises of this kind made to men would be looked upon as binding; are those not more binding that are made to God? Are promises tried in the court of conscience less binding than written agreements of men?{AA 74.2}

It is God who blesses men with property, and He does this that they may be able to give toward the advancement of His cause. He sends the sunshine and the rain. He causes vegetation to flourish. He gives health and the ability to acquire means. All our blessings come from His bountiful hand. In turn, He would have men and women show their gratitude by returning Him a portion in tithes and offerings—in thank offerings, in freewill offerings, in trespass offerings. Should means flow into the treasury in accordance with this divinely appointed plan,—a tenth of all the increase, and liberal offerings,—there would be an abundance for the advancement of the Lord’s work.{AA 75.1}

But the hearts of men become hardened through selfishness, and, like Ananias and Sapphira, they are tempted to withhold part of the price, while pretending to fulfill God’s requirements. Many spend money lavishly in self-gratification. Men and women consult their pleasure and gratify their taste, while they bring to God, almost unwillingly, a stinted offering. They forget that God will one day demand a strict account of how His goods have been used, and that He will no more accept the pittance they hand into the treasury than He accepted the offering of Ananias and Sapphira.{AA 75.2}

From the stern punishment meted out to those perjurers, God would have us learn also how deep is His hatred and contempt for all hypocrisy and deception. In pretending that they had given all, Ananias and Sapphira lied to the Holy Spirit, and, as a result, they lost this life and the life that is to come. The same God who punished them, today condemns all falsehood. Lying lips are an abomination to Him. He declares that into the Holy City “there shall in no wise enter ... anything that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie.” Revelation 21:27. Let truth telling be held with no loose hand or uncertain grasp. Let it become a part of the life. Playing fast and loose with truth, and dissembling to suit one’s own selfish plans, means shipwreck of faith. “Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth.” Ephesians 6:14. He who utters untruths sells his soul in a cheap market. His falsehoods may seem to serve in emergencies; he may thus seem to make business advancement that he could not gain by fair dealing; but he finally reaches the place where he can trust no one. Himself a falsifier, he has no confidence in the word of others. {AA 75.3}

In the case of Ananias and Sapphira, the sin of fraud against God was speedily punished. The same sin was often repeated in the after history of the church and is committed by many in our time. But though it may not be attended by the visible manifestation of God’s displeasure, it is no less heinous in His sight now than in the apostles’ time. The warning has been given; God has clearly manifested His abhorrence of this sin; and all who give themselves up to hypocrisy and covetousness may be sure that they are destroying their own souls.{AA 76.1}..... Emphasis mine

God does Abhor sin and lies in particular. 

Your SOP compilation was brilliant ! It seems from the SOP that tithe  minimum one gives the LORD, and Ananias promised a vow more than tithe but failed to follow through

This lesson means what for us today, when we contemplate cheap grace and prayer forgiveness for our sinning, could it be that Jesus is also one with hard love too?

Thanks again brother Ian for the quotes

SHalom

They promised money and then kept it back.  That is my understanding.  I have seen worse, where a couple of really wicked people drained a churches whole budget, cashing the money and keeping it for themselves.

The reason why they died was because they lied not to men, but to the Holy Spirit.

In addition, the Holy Spirit had recently come down in a great way.  It's like they were living under a theocracy again: God the HS was right there in full strength. When they saw the amount of money received for the property, they expelled the HS and another spirit entered. 

And you don't think the Holy Spirit isn't still moving in a great way?  I do.

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