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1 Sam 16:14

 Now the Spirit of the Lord had departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord tormented him.


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Since the Lord arranged the situation to bring about Saul's death it was the Lord who did it as the Bible says.  Since Saul threw himself on his own sword it was Saul who was the direct agent, just as the Bible said. 

If I am given a task to do, and I gather my employees to get the job done I get the credit for it, whether I swung a hammer on the job or not.  They are working under my authority and I am the one who has to answer for the mistakes they make and take credit for the work they did under my supervision.  If I'm a good boss I do acknowledge them and what they did, but the greatest credit for the job still goes to me because I am the contractor of record.  This is the relationship we see between God and Saul in assigning credit or blame here.  Both did it.

As for the Amalekite, the Bible is also very clear that he came upon a dead body, stripped it and went to the designated successor who would start a new dynasty.  The Amalekite probably just considered David to be a pretender to the throne, not God's anointed, but this didn't matter much.  He was simply seeking a reward from the man he assumed would be the next king.

Because of his false testimony against himself he found himself facing the penalty of the law for killing the Lord's anointed.


Hi Barek, 

What an interesting view of the nature and character of God you have.


Please refer to sections 1. 2. and 3. of my previous response to you.

I can see that you take a proof text literalist view of the 1 Kings 22:19 - 23 passage.
If you are unable to see from the context that Micaiah was mocking Ahab well I just have to leave it with you.

When did I speak of 1 Kings 22:19-23 ? and have I not in this very thread endorsed English in context and done so in other discussions? I feel that the approach  taken with me here is a twisted one.

However, let me say that your picture of God who controls and employs evil spirits to torment people..

Once again this was already explained:(again refer to sections 1. 2. and 3. of my response to you currently found on page 2 ).


1 Samuel 16:14(ESV)

14 Now the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and a harmful spirit from the Lord tormented him.

This doesn't sound like the same God Jesus speaks about in John 3:16.

Did not God also destroy Sodom,Israel,the Egyptians that pursued Moses,drive Nebuchadnezzar from among men into perceived madness,and send a flood that destroyed almost all of His creation?

I do not judge the ways and means by which God humbles and punishes His creations,nor do I dare try to use my understanding of His love as witness against these things,why would I do so regarding 1 Samuel 16:14?

The problem with a proof text, literalistic approach to Bible interpretation is that it does not take into consideration the context.

Not only the context of the immediate Bible passage but also the context of the book, and of the Bible, of the culture and time period in which it was written and the culture and time period in which it is trying to be understood

Oh,but I do consider all of these things.A spirit was not always considered a disembodied entity as you appear to believe.I'm also aware of other Scripture where the LORD sent an evil spirit and consider how it was used.I gather all this through English,context,and it's uses in other parts of the Bible.If I must then I study from where it was translated.When I read the Bible I do so with humility that grants an open-mind,clear of preconceived ideas,in order that the Holy Spirit may guide me to understanding,yet here you are labeling me a "proof text literalist".But why? Why must you label me? Is it that you can not argue against my understanding of 1 Samuel 16:14 or the understanding of Bible translators? I was very interested to see how according to the Bible,the English in context,or even the Hebrew that you could show me how my understanding was in error,but before I asked, you posted this:

Ellen White says: Saul gave himself up to the control of the wicked spirit that ruled over him

With this quote you showed me that your understanding of 1 Samuel 16:14 is not dependent upon your understanding of the Bible ,the context of English/Hebrew ,culture,etc.but is based on your understanding of a single comment by Ellen White.

Patriarchs and Prophets 650.3-650.4

Saul opened his heart to the spirit of jealousy by which his soul was poisoned. Notwithstanding the lessons which he had received from the prophet Samuel, instructing him that God would accomplish whatsoever He chose, and that no one could hinder it, the king made it evident that he had no true knowledge of the plans or power of God. The monarch of Israel was opposing his will to the will of the Infinite One. Saul had not learned, while ruling the kingdom of Israel, that he should rule his own spirit. He allowed his impulses to control his judgment, until he was plunged into a fury of passion. He had paroxysms of rage, when he was ready to take the life of any who dared oppose his will. From this frenzy he would pass into a state of despondency and self-contempt, and remorse would take possession of his soul.

He loved to hear David play upon his harp, and the evil spirit seemed to be charmed away for the time; but one day when the youth was ministering before him, and bringing sweet music from his instrument, accompanying his voice as he sang the

praises of God, Saul suddenly threw his spear at the musician, for the purpose of putting an end to his life. David was preserved by the interposition of God, and without injury fled from the rage of the maddened king

Now let's put Ellen White in context.Here she explains the "evil spirit".


No,but an aspect of the spirit is being described,which led to rage and Saul trying to pin David to the wall with a spear.

What she speaks of is here:

1 Samuel 18:8-10

And Saul was very angry, and this saying displeased him. He said, “They have ascribed to David ten thousands, and to me they have ascribed thousands, and what more can he have but the kingdom?” And Saul eyed David from that day on.

10 The next day a harmful spirit from God rushed upon Saul, and he raved within his house while David was playing the lyre, as he did day by day. Saul had his spear in his hand. 11 And Saul hurled the spear, for he thought, “I will pin David to the wall.” But David evaded him twice.


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