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Hi Brethren and Sistrens,

I believe there is a faithful Church-- this church is the Seventh-day Adventist Church Movement.  But there is a wide movement that is growing that there is no remnant church and that the church is just the people.  If there would be No remnant church where would we go??  Of course, people still believe in Jesus Christ, but many don't believe the Adventists even have the Truth anymore.  These are Not just offshoots many common people today don't believe in the Remnant Church of bible prophecy.  I could name 12 people that are very passionate about spreading that the Remnant is just the people.  I know I've run into them online.  The reasoning is because they believe the Pope has infiltrated the Adventist Church top down and is leading the whole mass into deception.  I believe in the Church, I also believe in Jesus of the church, I also believe we are to call people to baptism until close of probation or the national sunday law and death decree.  Which that could be the same thing?  Jesus works to undo the apostasy of the Catholic Babylonian systems.  He uses the Adventist Church and if the sins in Adventist Church are so great we should keep it quiet, because Jesus still wants to call people into Adventist Church and who would want to join a ill-repute movement.  Not very many that is for sure.

Any thoughts on these things.  Your welcome.

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Andrew, I hope all is well with you, Just remember the Church today will is not be like the church in the final end. Yes I think we have been infiltrated by Jesuits but they will disappear when the shaking happens as EGW says: 

"I asked the meaning of the shaking I had seen, and was shown that it would be caused by the straight testimony called forth by the counsel of the True Witness to the Laodiceans. This will have its effect upon the heart of the receiver, and will lead him to exalt the standard and pour forth the straight truth. Some will not bear this straight testimony. They will rise up against it, and this will cause a shaking among God’s people. The testimony of the True Witness has not been half heeded. The solemn testimony upon which the destiny of the church hangs has been lightly esteemed, if not entirely disregarded. This testimony must work deep repentance, and all that truly receive it will obey it and be purified. {CCh 338.5}

There is a compilation that describes all things that will happen in the last testing times 

https://egwwritings.org/?ref=en_LDE.1&para=39.6

There is also on the site a facility to download as a PDF or other formats as you please.

Thanks for the SOP Elijah

Andrew raises an interesting point.

During the shaking how much of the SDA church structure is reformed to bring it in line as the first church of acts, full of GOD love as in the latter rain?

You would have to have no General Conference President,  remember the beginning of the SDA church, and they approached Mr White as first president, and he declined the offer. There is a statement of Mr White saying to Mrs White as they catch a train bound for Australia saying " let us go Ellen, we are NOT wanted here".

EGW sent messages to a wayward church back than, after 6 years of it forming, and continued to support the Church structure for years and years, but never left the Church.

Take for instance the tithe. I can't remember the SOP quote, but EGW speaks of the Pastor as an armchair , the tithe is used for evangelism, for the work of the gospel, and a Pastor is not to get paid for preaching on Sabbath to already converted members, that's the Elders job, I am lead to believe. The Pastor in our church is supposed to be fully paid to bring the gospel to our local community, asking us members to help him, as we can.

Notice the Churches in Acts, Paul was an evangelist, the elders preached and took care of the churches, not Paul every Sabbath.

I remember Pastor Porter when I was a missionary in PNG say in all the 16 years as a conference Pastor, never was a meeting made via the Holy Spirit, it was always a meeting based on money decisions, he said.

Now what do we do with our current creed, that no longer fully follows Scripture? Will our Church structure vote to undo all their wordings and bring us back to our old landmarks? That would be nice if they did.

Now if we had a prophet deal with our wayward church structure decisions for over 50 years, and could not make much change in our church structure, what makes us think the shaking will do even better? Removing people might be nice, changing structure even better, but what we really lack around the world is a remnant people on fire for Jesus... we don't need structure, or creed or such things. We just need to be SDA people on fire for Jesus.

The word "remnant" means "that which remains" , does it really mean a Church structure? I don't think so.

Go to your local Church and ask them, "Pastor do we have a plan during the Sunday decree days? "Is there a conference level plan in place" "is there a world wide strategy for the people of GOD dealing with Sunday law issues?" The answers you get is silence. I get the impression we are on our own, alone ... sad to say...

How many documents do we have on end of time issues, the sequence of events and the time of the end properly presented from our Church to her people, and preached all over the world? I have yet to see a single one.

Shalom

Rob we don't need any plan for Sunday law issues. God has a plan and that plan is to save us in His eternal kingdom  

When the law of God has been made void and apostasy becomes a national sin, the Lord will work in behalf of His people. Last Day Events pages 132, 133

Praise the Lord.

Thanks for your reply Rob As Jasons say: "we don't need any plan for Sunday law issues. God has a plan and that plan is to save us in His eternal kingdom"

Besider as EGW says in GC: Notwithstanding the widespread declension of faith and piety, there are true followers of Christ in these churches. Before the final visitation of God’s judgments upon the earth there will be among the people of the Lord such a revival of primitive godliness as has not been witnessed since apostolic times. The Spirit and power of God will be poured out upon His children. At that time many will separate themselves from those churches in which the love of this world has supplanted love for God and His word. Many, both of ministers and people, will gladly accept those great truths which God has caused to be proclaimed at this time to prepare a people for the Lord’s second coming. The enemy of souls desires to hinder this work; and before the time for such a movement shall come, he will endeavor to prevent it by introducing a counterfeit. In those churches which he can bring under his deceptive power he will make it appear that God’s special blessing is poured out; there will be manifest what is thought to be great religious interest. Multitudes will exult that God is working marvelously for them, when the work is that of another spirit. Under a religious guise, Satan will seek to extend his influence over the Christian world. {GC 464.1}   

Nice quote Elijah

"The enemy of souls desires to hinder this work; and before the time for such a movement shall come, he will endeavor to prevent it by introducing a counterfeit. In those churches which he can bring under his deceptive power he will make it appear that God’s special blessing is poured out; there will be manifest what is thought to be great religious interest."

When miracles come to us in our church via Jesus, how do we know we have the real Jesus?

Jason, you remind me of a most wonderful sermon last Sabbath, our Pastor said to us listening, ask GOD what if, you send me, do for Him, be that ministry outside of the Church. It was such a practical sermon, note what happened to Philip, the deacon, than casting out demons, than baptising the Eunuch of Ethopia? What Next GOD he asks", on fire for the Lord..?

The sermon was pointed to individuals, alone, seeking passion for Jesus. This sermon did not ask for a home church to be set up, where volunteers wanting to do this would train and go and do as his sermon suggested. I would have volunteered. But was the plea really ready for the Church, why wasn't the Pastor running this spirit filled service himself and asking others to join him? So my problem, our Church lacks a plan? We simply don't have a plan for the latter rain.

Church is NOT about  independent spirit filled people working for Jesus, and saving souls, on their own, although Paul was like that in Acts. But even Paul had helpers.

The Scripture says 2 or 3 sticks are not easily broken. Where is our community plan?  

Where is our "home church" meetings, this is an SOP term. What is Church for?

I feel we have lost our community mission and our unity to go as Jesus says we should do.

All over the world we need a church plan for the latter rain, the Sunday Law and for the Coming of Jesus. Our plan has to be community based on love. Shalom

Thanks for your reply, Rob. as you said: 

"When miracles come to us in our church via Jesus, how do we know we have the real Jesus?"

Indeed the only way we can tell the true from the false is by the word of God. as EGW says when satan personates Christ. 

As the crowning act in the great drama of deception, Satan himself will personate Christ. The church has long professed to look to the Saviour’s advent as the consummation of her hopes. Now the great deceiver will make it appear that Christ has come. In different parts of the earth, Satan will manifest himself among men as a majestic being of dazzling brightness, resembling the description of the Son of God given by John in the Revelation. Revelation 1:13-15. The glory that surrounds him is unsurpassed by anything that mortal eyes have yet beheld. The shout of triumph rings out upon the air: “Christ has come! Christ has come!” The people prostrate themselves in adoration before him, while he lifts up his hands and pronounces a blessing upon them, as Christ blessed His disciples when He was upon the earth. His voice is soft and subdued, yet full of melody. In gentle, compassionate tones he presents some of the same gracious, heavenly truths which the Saviour uttered; he heals the diseases of the people, and then, in his assumed character of Christ, he claims to have changed the Sabbath to Sunday, and commands all to hallow the day which he has blessed. He declares that those who persist in keeping holy the seventh day are blaspheming his name by refusing to listen to his angels sent to them with light and truth. This is the strong, almost overmastering delusion. Like the Samaritans who were deceived by Simon Magus, the multitudes, from the least to the greatest, give heed to these sorceries, saying: This is “the great power of God.” Acts 8:10. {GC 624.2}
But the people of God will not be misled. The teachings of this false Christ are not in accordance with the Scriptures. His blessing is pronounced upon the worshipers of the beast and his image, the very class upon whom the Bible declares that God’s unmingled wrath shall be poured out. {GC 625.1}

A false Jesus walking on earth during the second coming, is easy, as Scripture says the Second coming Jesus does not walk o the earth.

Its the "Like the Samaritans who were deceived by Simon Magus, the multitudes, from the least to the greatest, give heed to these sorceries, saying: This is “the great power of God.” Acts 8:10. {GC 624.2}"  SImon Magnus miracles you have to watch out for.

Simon Magnus was a baptised SDA person who does miracles in the Church via a jesus power, a so called great power, deceiving many. How do we know?

For example, where does it in Scripture say the Church structure is to be arrayed in divisions and order, with a conference president, like we have today?

In the OT structure, the families and tribes had their own leaders, Moses and Aaron was an overall leader, is our Church structure a copy of the OT structure, or as a Church are we deceived? Why didn't Mr White become the first "moses" of our Church structure? Why did he decline?

Have a careful read of EGW over the way Pastors work in our Churches. Are our Pastors feeding us? Or are they supposed to do gospel work?

My understanding of avoiding deception, is we are to follow the teachings.

Do the people follow the SOP teachings these days, the teachings of Scripture?

For example how many of us understand the need for fasting and prayer in our Church?

When we make deacons for example, we should fast and pray before we ordain them.

DO we understand what fasting is for?

What about our health message? Why do we eat food laced in sugar, wrapped in AL foil?

Why do we drink coffee and wine? Have we forgotten our health teachings?

What about SOP warning before Sunday law comes? She says, as the Bible also says. get out of the cities, live in country villages. How many SDA people are living in towns and cities?

Our Sabbath School lessons on Daniel, was FORCED to live in the city. We have a choice, ,most choose to live in cities...why do we do this?

Does EGW say we VISIT the cities, not live in the cities?

The manna miracles are not going to fall is as a Church we are doing wrong things, and are not following the teachings. A remnant by definition has to be a group following the teachings. Shalom

My Adventist Friend lives in the city.  He says Ellen White tells us to live in the country and that he believes she means ALL ADVENTISTS TO LIVE IN COUNTRY.  Yet he believes it is not a salvational issue and not possible for him to live in the country.  

Does that mean not all can live in the country??  

True Andrew it is not a salvation issue. Remind your friend about Lot's Wife.  

Gen 19:25  And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground. 
Gen 19:26  But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt. 

Yes, Rob, many things done in the Church is not in keeping with the Bible or the SP. I note you refer to Simon Magus. Let me put the link here to the excellent study done by Richard. 

http://www.adventistonline.com/forum/topics/simon-magus-and-the-cor...

Simon Magus thought he could just as some do today use the Holy Spirit to do his bidding. And many bad things came into the church because of him. Yes, fasting and prayer can be a great thing and is not done at all in our church. 

As Andrew remarks moving out of the city is a recommendation of EGW but as I understand not a salvation issue. Although we need to keep in mind Lots wife. 

Gen 19:25  And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground. 
Gen 19:26  But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt. 

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