Does Ellen White in her writings always agree with what is written in the Bible? Has Ellen Whites writing caused you to look deeper into the word?
There has been a rash of anti Ellen White threads on AO forums. I have to say that by searching the Bible and comparing her writings I have never found anything that disagrees with the word of God. My relationship has been brought closer to God and my understanding of the Bible has grown. I cannot say the same for any other writer who has written a book about the Bible.
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Permalink Reply by Jason M. on -
I have never seen anything that disagrees with the word of God also.
While God has given ample evidence for faith, He will never remove all excuse for unbelief. All who look for hooks to hang their doubts upon will find them. And those who refuse to accept and obey God’s word until every objection has been removed, and there is no longer an opportunity for doubt, will never come to the light....{DD 11.3}
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Permalink Reply by Jason M. on
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Satan’s Rage against the Remnant
Revelation 12:17: “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
In order to better understand the expression “testimony of Jesus” we must go back to the days of John the Baptist.The Life and Work of John the Baptist
Great religious revival at the end of the 70 week prophecy
Matthew 3:5-6: “When Jerusalem, all Judea and all the region around the Jordan went out to him and were baptized by him in the Jordan, confessing their sins. “
John was asked if he was the prophet and he said no
John 1:19-21: “Now this is the testimony of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, "Who are you?" 20 He confessed, and did not deny, but confessed, "I am not the Christ." 21 And they asked him, "What then? Are you Elijah?" He said, "I am not." "Are you the Prophet?" And he answered, "No."
John was the messenger of the Lord
Luke 7:27: “This is he of whom it is written: 'Behold, I send My messenger before Your face who will prepare Your way before You.'
Prepare a people to receive Jesus at His first coming
John 1:23: “He said:"I am 'The voice of one crying in the wilderness: 'Make straight the way of the Lord,"' as the prophet Isaiah said."
Matt 3:1-3: “In those days John the Baptist came preaching in the wilderness of Judea, 2 and saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand!" 3 For this is he who was spoken of by the prophet Isaiah, saying: "The voice of one crying in the wilderness:'Prepare the way of the Lord; make His paths straight.'"
Luke 1:16, 17: “And he will turn many of the children of Israel to the Lord their God. 17 He will also go before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah, 'to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children,' and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just, to make ready a people prepared for the Lord."
Restore all things. Elijah is the great restorer
Matthew 17:11-13: “Jesus answered and said to them, "Indeed, Elijah is coming first and will restore all things. 12 But I say to you that Elijah has come already, and they did not know him but did to him whatever they wished. Likewise [if you reject the Lord’s messenger you will end up rejecting the Lord as well] the Son of Man is also about to suffer at their hands." 13 Then the disciples understood that He spoke to them of John the Baptist.”
John was more than a prophet
Luke 7:26: “But what did you go out to see? A prophet? Yes, I say to you, and more than a prophet.”
John performed no miracle but what he said about Jesus was true
John 10:41, 42: “Then many came to Him and said, "Johnperformed no sign, but all the things that John spoke about this Man were true." 42 And many believed in Him there.”
John had the testimony of Jesus
John 5:31-33: "If I bear witness [testimony] of Myself, My witness[testimony] is not true. 32 There is another who bears witness[testimony] of Me, and I know that the witness [testimony] which He witnesses [testifies] of Me is true. 33 You have sent to John, and he has borne witness [testimony] to the truth.”
John was not the greater light but was a lesser light
John 1:6-8: “There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 This man came for a witness [testimony], to bear witness [testimony] of the Light that all through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness [testimony] of that Light.”
John 5:35: “He [John the Baptist] was the burning and shining lamp, and you were willing for a time to rejoice in his light.”
John 5:36: “But I have a greater witness than John's; for the works which the Father has given Me to finish — the very works that I do — bear witness of Me, that the Father has sent Me.”
John was the lesser light who was raised up to guide men and women to the greater light
“The prophet John was the connecting link between the two dispensations. As God's representative he stood forth to show the relation of the law and the prophets to the Christian dispensation. He was the lesser light, which was to be followed by a greater.” DA 220
The Scriptures are also a lesser light
John 5:39-40: “You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. 40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.”
John 5:45-47: “Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you— Moses, in whom you trust. 46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. 47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?"
Why two lesser lights?
So you have two lesser lights: The Scriptures and John the Baptist. One of the lesser lights is canonical and the other is non-canonical.
The question that begs to be asked is this: If the people had acanonical lesser light, why did they need a non canonical one?
Or even a more pointed question: Why would they even need a lesser light if they would soon have the Greater Light in their midst?
Let me ask another question: Could the Jews have discernedJesus as the Messiah simply by studying the written Scriptures? The answer is a resounding yes.
Every event of the life of Jesus was previously choreographed in the Scriptures:
• He would be born in Bethlehem: Micah 5:2
• He would be born of a virgin: Isaiah 7:14
• His birth would be announced by a star: Numbers 24:17
• Children would be massacred when He was born: Jeremiah 40:1
• He would be called from Egypt: Hosea 11:1
• He would be baptized or anointed when the 69th week of Daniel 9 ended: Daniel 9:25
• He would perform marvelous works and be a powerful preacher:Isaiah 61:1-4
• The Jews would reject His message: Isaiah 6:9, 10
• The Jews would only serve him with their lips: Isaiah 29:13
• He would enter Jerusalem on a donkey in the midst of great acclamation: Zachariah 9:9
• He would cast the money changers out of the temple: Jeremiah 7:11
• Zeal for God’s house would consume him: Psalm 69:9
• He would be sold for 30 pieces of silver: Zachariah 11:13
• His disciples would all forsake Him: Zachariah 13:7
• He would die a vicarious death: Isaiah 53:3-6
• He would say on the cross: ‘My God, My God, why have you forsaken Me’: Psalm 22:1
• His hands and feet would be pierced: Psalm 22:16
• Lots would be cast upon His garments: Psalm 22:18
• His heart would be poured out like water: Psalm 22:14
• His enemies would spit in His face: Isaiah 50:6
• His enemies would dare Him to come down from the cross:Psalm 22:8
• None of His bones would be broken: Exodus 12:46
• On the cross He would say: ‘I thirst’: Psalm 22:15; 69:21
• His passion would last for three days and three nights: Jonah 2:1
• His burial would be with the rich: Isaiah 53:9
• He would resurrect from the dead on the third day: Psalm 16:10;Isaiah 53:9-11
• He would ascend to heaven: Psalm 24
• He would sit on the Father’s right hand: Psalm 110:1, 4
I ask once again: Could the Jews have been ready to receive Jesus as the Messiah simply by studying the written Scriptures? The answer is a resounding yes!
The people were in darkness
The problem is that they were misinterpreting the Scriptures especially the prophecies according to the desires of their selfish hearts. In fact, during the period between the testaments the people came to be under great darkness:
Matt 4:16: “The people who sat in darkness have seen a great light and upon those who sat in the region and shadow of death Light has dawned."
Luke 1:78-79: “Through the tender mercy of our God, with which theDayspring from on high has visited us; 79 To give light to those who sit in darkness and the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace."
The people needed a lesser light to guide them to the greater light.
The role of John was not to bring new light but rather to turn the attention of the people to the light already given. He was to awaken interest in the study of Old Testament prophecy.
After all, John fit perfectly with the description of the forerunnerwho would prepare the way for the Messiah. People should havegone to the Scriptures then to find details on how to expect the Messiah to come.
You see, those who claimed to be God’s people and boasted of having the Old Testament were violating every principle of the Word of God. They professed to be waiting for the Messiah. They professed to love God. They claimed to have a close relationship with Him and yet they would crucify Christ because theymisunderstood the Old Testament and rejected the clarification by the lesser light.
The Jews said: “We have Moses.” But they did not understand Moses because they did not see Jesus in His writings (II Corinthians 3: explain the veil if I have time). They boasted of their knowledge of the Scriptures and yet did not understand them at all.John was called to attract their attention to the Scriptures already given. By seeing John dressing like Elijah, eating like Elijah, speaking like Elijah, living in the desert like Elijah their attention would be attracted to the prophecy of Malachi 3 and 4 and they would have searched the Scriptures to know more about the coming of the Messiah.
John lighted up the Old Testament prophecies about the Messiah. He presented Jesus as the Lamb of God, a clear reference to the sanctuary sacrifice and the prophecy of Isaiah 53. He took from the Old Testament and showed how it was fulfilled in Jesus. He exalted the Old Testament and made it vivid, alive, present truth. He rebuked, reproved, corrected. He was a fly in the ointment, a pain in the neck, a speck in the eye. He was no pushover.
The role of John was to prepare a people for the first coming of Jesus (Luke 1:17). For this he needed to restore the truth. Byrevival (repentance) and reformation (bearing fruit) the people were to wait expectantly for their bridegroom. John was the liaison or go-between, between Jesus Christ (the groom) and Israel (the bride). He was to prepare the way for the wedding (John 3:28-30). In New Testament times, the friend of the bridegroom was responsible for making all the preparations for the wedding so that all was ready when the groom should come. The friend of the bridegroom was not to take the glory for himself. The glory was for the groom who was marrying the bride. The best man does not want all eyes centered on himself at the wedding. He decreases so that the bridegroom can increase! In other words, he blends into the woodwork so that all can see the bridegroom. He was the restorer of all things and the one to prepare a people for the Lord.
The Old Testament had prophecies about the coming of the bridegroom to marry his bride. The matchmaker (John the Baptist) has come to set up all the arrangements. Yet the bride rejected her husband. By rejecting the work of the matchmaker, they rejected the bridegroom as well. Let’s see how John the Baptist was treated.
John was rejected by God’s own people
Matthew 11:18: “For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, 'He has a demon.'”
John was rejected by the leaders
Luke 7:29, 30: “And when all the people heard Him, even the tax collectors justified God, having been baptized with the baptism of John. 30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the will of God for themselves, not having been baptized by him.”
They knew Him not (same expression as John 1:10-11). Because they did with John as they pleased, they also did with Jesus as they pleased. And these were the people who claimed to go by the Scriptures!! By rejecting the lesser light, they rejected the greater light!!
Matthew 17:12, 13: “But I say to you that Elijah has come already, and they did not know him but did to him whatever they wished. Likewise the Son of Man is also about to suffer at their hands." 13 Then the disciples understood that He spoke to them of John the Baptist.”
John grew in understanding
Prophets are not omniscient or infallible. They were human. They grew in their understanding of truth. John, for example, thought there would only be one coming of the Messiah (Matthew 3:7, 10, 12). When Jesus did not appear to measure up to his preaching, he sent a message to Jesus asking whether He was the one to come or whether they should expect another (Matthew 11:1-3)
“During the weeks that followed [the baptism of Jesus], John with new interest studied the prophecies and the teaching of the sacrificial service. He did not distinguish clearly the two phases of Christ’s work,--as a suffering sacrifice and as a conquering king,--but he saw that His coming had a deeper significance than priests or people had discerned.” DA 137, 137
Was John a false prophet because he did not fully understandthe work of the Messiah? Was his work as a prophet any less trustworthy because his knowledge and understanding were limited? After Jesus healed the sick, etc., John finally understood!!Now let’s compare the life and work of Ellen G. White
At the end of the 2300 day prophecy there was a great revival(Daniel 8:14; Revelation 10, 14:6, 7)
No claim to being a prophet
“During the discourse [given in Battle Creek on October 2, 1904], I said that I did not claim to be a prophetess. Some were surprised at this statement, and as much is being said in regard to it, I will make an explanation. Others have called me a prophetess, but I have never assumed that title. I have not felt that it was my duty thus to designate myself.” I SM 36
“When I was last in Battle Creek, I said before a large congregation that I did not claim to be a prophetess. Twice I referred to this matter, intending each time to make the statement, ‘I do not claim to be a prophetess.’ If I spoke otherwise than this, let all now understand that what I had in mind to say was that I do not claim the title of prophet or prophetess.” I SM 35
Ellen White was the Lord’s messenger
“But my work has covered so many lines that I cannot call myself other than a messenger sent to bear a message from the Lord to His people, and to take up work in any line that He points out.” 1 SM 34
“Early in my youth I was asked several times, Are you a prophet? I have ever responded, I am the Lord’s messenger. I know that many have called me a prophet, but I have made no claim to this title. My Savior declared me to be His messenger.” 1 SM 32
Accused of not performing miracles
“Some declare their unbelief in the work that the Lord has given me to do because, as they say, 'Mrs. E. G. White works no miracles.’ But those who look for miracles as a sign of divine guidance are in grave danger of deception.” II SM 53, 54
Ellen White had the Testimony of Jesus (Revelation 12:17;19:10; 22:9)
Revelation 12:17: “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
Revelation 19:10: “And I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me: "See that you do not do that! I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."
Revelation 22:8, 9: “Now I, John, saw and heard these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel who showed me these things. 9 Then he said to me: ‘See that you do not do that. For I am your fellow servant and of yourbrethren the prophets and of those who keep the words of this book. Worship God.’”
The work of Ellen White was far greater than that of a conventional prophet
“. . . my work includes much more than the word "prophet" signifies.” 1SM 32
“My commission embraces the work of a prophet, but it does not end there. It embraces much more than the minds of those who have been sowing the seeds of unbelief can comprehend.” ISM 36
“My work includes much more than this name signifies. I regard myself as a messenger, entrusted by the Lord with messages for His people.” ISM 36
Ellen White was a lesser light to lead men and women to the greater light, Jesus Christ
“Little heed is given to the Bible and the Lord has given a lesser light to lead men and women to the greater light.” (3 SM 30)
“The religion of the Jews, in consequence of their departure from God, consisted mostly in ceremony. John was the lesser light, which was to be followed by a greater light. He was to shake the confidence of the people in their traditions, and call their sins to remembrance, and lead them to repentance; that they might be prepared to appreciate the work of Christ.” Review and Herald, volume 41, number 17, April 8, 1873
Two lesser lights
As with John, two sources give witness to Jesus, one canonical(the Bible) and the other non-canonical (the writings of Ellen G. White). As with John, the purpose of her writings is to bring attention to the written Scriptures which had been trampled upon and misinterpreted during the dark ages. If God’s people had studied the Word of God with the sincere desire to obey it, Ellen White would never have been called by God.
“You are not familiar with the Scriptures. If you had made God’s word your study, with a desire to reach the Bible standard and attain to Christian perfection, you would not have needed the Testimonies. It is because you have neglected to acquaint yourselves with God’s inspired Book that He has sought to reach you by simple, direct testimonies, calling your attention to the words of inspiration which you had neglected to obey, and urging you to fashion your lives in accordance with its pure and elevated teachings.
"The Lord designs to warn you, to reprove, to counsel, through the testimonies given, and to impress your minds with the importance of the truth of His word. The written testimonies are not to give new light, but to impress vividly upon the heart the truths of inspiration already revealed. Man's duty to God and to his fellow man has been distinctly specified in God's word, yet but few of you are obedient to the light given. Additional truth is not brought out; but God has through the Testimonies simplified the great truths already given and in His own chosen way brought them before the people to awaken and impress the mind with them, that all may be left without excuse.” 5T 664, 665
Why Ellen White if we have the Bible? For the same reason that the Jews needed John even though they had the Old Testament. They did not understand or obey it so God, in His mercy, gave them a helping hand by simplifying and amplifying the truths already given. Ellen White is not a source of new light but rather one who amplifies and simplifies the old light. Ellen White amplifies, magnifies, explains, clarifies, corrects, enlightens, simplifies.
Around the same time and place that God raised up Ellen White, another person also arose who claimed to be a prophet. He purportedly found some gold plates in Palmyra, New York written in ancient Egyptian which he translated into English. This document is known as The Book of Mormon. This book is referred to as‘another Testament of Jesus Christ.’ [why not in contemporary English and why no manuscript trail?] It is considered a supplement to the Word of God (along with the Pearl of Great Price and Doctrine and Covenants). In other words, they unapologetically affirm that these books contain truths which cannot be found in the Bible.
When the Latter Day Saints pay a visit, their first task is to try and convince the prospective student that Joseph Smith was a true prophet. As the studies continue, the Book of Mormon and the Bible are used together.
With Seventh-day Adventist the process is reversed. The student is taught the truth from Scripture alone and once all the doctrines have been clearly presented from Scripture, then the Spirit of Prophecy is presented last as a complement (not supplement)of the Bible. This is not done because the Spirit of Prophecy is ofsecondary importance but rather because the function of the writings of Ellen White is not to supplement Scripture but rather to complement it! Ellen White magnifies, explains, amplifies simplifies and highlights the great truths of Scripture but does not add any new truth!! Ellen White is like a telescope or a microscope. The telescope does not create stars but rather helps us see them more clearly.
Is it just possible that many in the Seventh-day Adventist Church today who say: “I don’t need Ellen G. White, because I have the Bible,” are really violating every principle of God’s holy Word? The fact is that Ellen G. White is despised by many within the church as much as was John the Baptist.
Former pastors write books such as The White Lie and Ellen G. White: Prophetess of Health and certain internet sites sites lambast Ellen White with vitriolic hatred, all under the pretense that because we have the Bible, we do not need Ellen G. White!! Sounds familiar, doesn’t it?
Ellen White foresaw all of this. Notice her words in II SM 48. If this is Satan’s very last deception, then we must be close to the end because we are seeing this hatred now!!
“The very last deception of Satan will be to make of none effect the testimony of the Spirit of God. ‘Where there is no vision, the people perish.’ (Proverbs 29:18) Satan will work ingeniously, in different ways and through different agencies, to unsettle the confidence of God’s remnant people in the true testimony.” 1 SM 48 (written in 1890)
I found out something long ago and it is this: I never form anopinion of a person or a church on the basis of what its enemies say (because the enemies distort what they believe) or even on the basis of what their friends say (because they often embellish the truth). If you want to know the truth about Ellen White, go directly to the source, read her writings for yourself. Get your information first hand!!
Ellen White was not perfect, infallible or omniscient. She grewin her understanding. If you compare Early Writings and The Great Controversy you can see her phenomenal growth.
The fact is that God has raised up Ellen White to prepare God’s people for the Second Coming as John was to prepare a people for the first coming. Will there be as few faithful ones prepared for the Second Coming as there were for the first coming?The Role of John the Baptist and Ellen G. White--------------------------By Stephen Bohr
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Permalink Reply by Gene on -
Jason, your article says that
“Ellen White magnifies, explains, amplifies simplifies and highlights the great truths of Scripture but does not add any new truth!!”
This is taken from the book Advertise Believes. Here she speaks and says this:
The judgment in which the righteous participate serves the purpose of answering any questions the righteous may have as to why the wicked are lost. God wants those to whom He has given eternal life to have full confidence in His leadership, so He will reveal to them the operations of His mercy and justice.
Is this biblical or is it made up? If this is biblical, and it is being explained we should see this in the scriptures. If it’s not biblical we will not see it in the scriptures, and we will only have this word (her word) to cling to on this particular matter.
For me, there’s a lot here which seems to waver from the bible; for example, she says.
…God wants those to whom He has given eternal life to have full confidence in His leadership, so He will reveal to them the operations of His mercy and justice.
Yet the bible says, Revelation 17:14
…and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
Faithful means to have confidence in. God is not out to win a popular contest, but to save the world.
What should one conclude from this?
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Permalink Reply by Mutinta Nteeni on -
Jason,
True Ellen White grew in her understanding. And she did have wrong views whilst receiving visions.she believed that the door was shut and another door was open. This meant at the time that God really was not in the work of the revivalists of the time like spurgeon, moody, etc and was only generally working with the advent people. I find this so unfair and unbiblical. God was in the work of these great men, who had rightly rejected miller's prediction of Jesus. U honestly can not tell me if today was 1844 u would accept someone saying Jesus is coming on so anso and use the parable of the 10 virgins. No ways. Thts why in Christs object lessons she somehow veered away from that and gave the true meaning of the parable and not what was given in 1844. No one gets special treatment. If she was wrong she was wrong. Am so concerned of listening to brethren quote her expositions with utmost authority like she never errerd. They just need to pick up the shut door documents and get humbled and place the bible back on the top shelf and desisit from making a pope of sr white. Many God fearing men and women held to wierd beliefs but we still are comforted by their faith in God. If this was habdled properly, the crisis we face would never have been. But to save the reputation of Sr White untruths have been made basically making her not err and an infallible interpreter of scriptureif she was 100 percent correct from her early ministry and did not change her well taught views then she would qualify to be such. But she changed her views, esp on the shut door, over time. By the time she was entering the 2oth centurry her view of Christ was super as seen in her works. She was clearly a God loving woman. But not an infallible interpreter of scripture. Thus I can disgree with her and still feel ok.and not feel like I have closed myself to heaven. I still have Christ as my very best friendscriptures as my daily bread.
Mutinta.
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Permalink Reply by Herbert Leon Bryan on -
James if you don't find anything, you are suffering from confirmatory bias and are giving credence to the idea that Ellen White was incapable of error. Additionally, you may not be using your critical thinking skills, and instead are looking to find correlations with her words and the bible (illusionary correlation,) instead of recognizing discrepancies.
H. Leon Bryan Ed.D.
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Permalink Reply by Raymond Rennek on -
With those letter after your name you think that you would be educated enough to not promote pork eating. The only one promoting error or who has bias it seems is an angry person with a bone to pick.
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Permalink Reply by Herbert Leon Bryan on
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Raymond
I am trying to promote the truth.
Leon
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Permalink Reply by Elijah on -
H. Leon Bryan Ed.D.
Suffering from Bias? Critical thinking? Sinless? Where do you get this Drivel from? EGW was born in sinful flesh just like you and me. Her sins has not been widely documented I know. Have yours? But I note you have posted many discussions here where you have plastered every real and imagined fault you could ever dig up on EGW bashsites.
One wonders what kind of Christian you are anyway? And what kind of SDA with your Pork eating gospel. You love to tell us that we are retarded because we do not admit that she was a sinner and had some faults. The more rubbish we see from you the more convinced we become that you are not an adventist and you are most likely a Jesuit sent here to sow Dissent and Doubt and in general scattering the flock.
The very last deception of Satan will be to make of none effect the testimony of the Spirit of God. “Where there is no vision, the people perish” (Proverbs 29:18). Satan will work ingeniously, in different ways and through different agencies, to unsettle the confidence of God’s remnant people in the true testimony. He will bring in spurious visions to mislead, and will mingle the false with the true, and so disgust people that they will regard everything that bears the name of visions as a species of fanaticism; but honest souls, by contrasting false and true, will be enabled to distinguish between them.{10MR 311.1}
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Permalink Reply by Herbert Leon Bryan on
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Ian
Are you able to make a statement using only scripture? Do you have the desire to read the bible unadulterated with the guidance of the Holy Spirit? Or are you so beholden to the collective and altered work of Ellen White that you have ceased to think on your own? God has given you the ability to commune with him through the Holy Spirit. Have faith and take on the guidance that the Holy Spirit can give you.
Leon
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Permalink Reply by Elijah on
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Leon
You now tell me what I must do I have the same rights as you if you do not like SOP is a mater for you. As you can see below Keith is saying that the SOP will become of no effect seems to me that you and Keith are doing that now.
Besides When the Spirit tells you to eat Bacon to me that would not be the Holy Spirit.
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Permalink Reply by keith mack on -
Lazarus,
You are using the " testimony of the Spirit of God," interchangeably with the " spirit of prophecy, testimonies to the church, Writings of Ellen White. "
And what is the big hang up over bacon?
Remember the Spirit of prophecy is just a name given to the writings of Ellen White. Like Early writings, or Steps to Christ. They used to be called Spiritual gifts, which was a better name.
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