Adventist Online

This is on of the most ignorant statements I have ever heard. People seriously want to vote for this guy? It is really sad hearing such ignorance coming out of an educated man.

Views: 1006

Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

I still do not get the point you are trying to make.  Are you saying morals are relative and not based on the Gods word or that you can fit Gods word to fit your interpretation?

Raymond they are just trying to reason out that its ok to be gay and have sex with other men. It doesn't matter about the truth. it would be like if I really wanted to justify having an affair with a married woman I wouldn't take any real counsel on it even though I would be committing a sin. I would reason it away to say its ok as long as I feel good. You can't reason with people that have it already made up in their mind that its ok to do even if its against God. 

"I still do not get the point you are trying to make.  Are you saying morals are relative and not based on the Gods word or that you can fit Gods word to fit your interpretation?"

I wonder Raymond are you saying morals are not relative on this forum or our church?

If we look in the bible we find "For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all." James 2:10 which clearly tells us all sins are equal. 

Yet if we look throughout this forum or even just this thread here we see a lot of "morale relative" going on. People have no problem with it to bear false witness and misrepresent scripture as long as it is to denounce the "greater sin" of homosexuality. Isnt that "morale relative"?

Take as example the story of Sodom. We see in Ezekiel 16:49 a long list of sind which was committed there. "Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy." 1 verse later in Ezekiel 16:50 we find the reference to sexual immorality "And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good." Later we find the story of the 2 angels which the town people wanted to gang-rape in todays language Genesis 19:5 "And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.".

We all know this story. We all clearly see a long list of sins in the story. We even recognize that they tried to rape the 2 angels. Yet if we look through this forum and our Church we clearly see that all these sins are completely dismissed. Following the explanation given here so often it was clearly the attempt to have homosexual sex which caused God to destroy Sodom. All the other sins including the attempt to gang-rape gods messenger do not weigh as much in the eyes of people in Church and here as the homosexual sex. So raping someone is the "lesser sin" compared to consensual homosexual sex? Seriously?

Is this not "morale relative" than?

Or take up our church manual today. We can see we allow some kind of sexual sin in our church. Clearly we do not condone it we do even have some kind of guidelines and punishments outlined in the church manual but in the end we do tolerate remarried-for-unbliblical reasons within our church, which the bible tells us is an ongoing sexual sin yet it is considered a "lesser sin" than on comparison a consensual homosexual relationship. Isnt that "morale relative"?

Or lets look through all the various kinds of sin we tolerate today in our church and even on this forum. We have no problem denouncing people, bearing false witness against them and slandering them as long as it is against lets say Obama as example. Or as long as it serves "our" interest to introduce some kind of conspiracy theory and a perceived enemy. (i.e. the threads about "Bill Gates wants to depopulate earth") All that is perfectly acceptable and perfectly in line with our "morale relatives" yet it is sin always. So tell me why are all these sins of "lesser degree" than someone elses? Are you not applying "morale relatives"?

Or look into our Church membership at large. How many people do you know in Church which are clearly, openly and ongoing committing the sin of obesity? Yet this is perfectly acceptable and not punished by a church manual but if someone is perceived as being homosexual, notice the being part as in has done nothing wrong, he or she is automatically declared as the worst sinner there is even tho he or she never actually did engage in homosexual activity. Not "morale relative"?

This list could go on and on and is rather long already. So tell me Raymond how do we fit all this together? Are you seriously and honestly telling me that there is not "morale relatives" in our Church? 

I know there is an awful lot of that going on and more often than not we have the "morale relatives" completely wrong. We are declaring our "morale relatives" not by a perceived ranking of sins based on scripture but rather we declare our morale relatives based on the fact if it could possibly affect us. If it is possibly affecting the vast majority than it must be the "lesser sin" and all sins which are perceived to only affect a small minority are the "worst possible sins" one can commit.

That is "morale relatives" applied the worst possible way and hardly in line with scripture.

Regards

Manuela -".......Yet if we look throughout this forum or even just this thread here we see a lot of "morale relative" going on. People have no problem with it to bear false witness and misrepresent scripture as long as it is to denounce the"greater sin" of homosexuality. Isnt that "morale relative"?   "

That is just my point. If being gay is so wrong it certainly is treated as the worst vile sin that anybody could ever commit however the consequences of the perceived "milder" sins like hatred, bigotry, bullying, racism, sexism gets a glance over in comparison.  

"with it to bear false witness and misrepresent scripture"

To not agree with you is false witness?  Its kind of hard to keep up with the ever changing standard of liberals and their interpretation to fit the attitudes of the Hollywood elite (stars) who set the standard.

What is false witness about women and man equals married and outside of that is fornication and adultery?  It is quit easy to see that self gratification via sex is the problem.  Male/female matrimony is to be selfless as shown by Christ to his church. 

"To not agree with you is false witness?"

Nice try Raymond. I never ever suggested this did i?

However claiming "being gay is sin" qualifies as false witness and misrepresenting scripture and it seems a lot of the people on this thread do not have a problem with it as long as it serves to denounce the "greater sin" of homosexuality. Talk about morale relatives.

This has nothing to do with me but all to do with scripture. It is however sad to see that you have to make it personal all the time to try to score some points instead of looking what exactly is written and think of it before twisting it.

But than again if thats all you can bring up as argument....

Regards

On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren. 9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:8-10

"However claiming "being gay is sin" qualifies as false witness"

I never said being gay is sin.  We are all sinners.  I have fornicated in my life so I would say I am a fornicator that does not mean that I still live that lifestyle.  Every day Christians should seek to draw closer to Christ and die to the flesh.  Can you do that if your soaking it up in a gay bath house?

Over and over and over we beat this dead horse.  A gay person can marry the opposite sex or remain celibate,  just like I can.   Its called sanctification. 

"Flogging a dead horse (alternatively beating a dead horse, or beating a dead dog in some parts of the Anglophone world) is an idiom that means a particular request or line of conversation is already foreclosed or otherwise resolved, and any attempt to continue it is futile; or that to continue in any endeavour ..."

Yes, yes and yes and yes again a person can have same sex attraction and go to heaven but must remain sinless by the power of Christ.  If we were trying to preach bigamy or adultery is a genetic mutation and has the Bible stamp of approval I would be saying the same things.   Science can say it is natural to lie, cheat or what ever but that will never ever make it right with what God says in his word. 

It seems there was a time that people used the Bible to justify slavery now people are using the Bible to justify slavery to fornication.

I never said being gay is sin.  

I did not say you did. I wrote this:

Yet if we look throughout this forum or even just this thread here we see a lot of "morale relative" going on. People have no problem with it to bear false witness and misrepresent scripture as long as it is to denounce the "greater sin" of homosexuality. Isnt that "morale relative"?

It was a general statement regarding "morale relatives" on this thread. I dd not say you stated it.

Over and over and over we beat this dead horse.  

Can not be such a "dead horse" when it is over and over again claimed on this very thread. In fact i only came to this thread because the so called "dead horse" was claimed on this thread.

You can dismiss it all you want but look through the posts and you will find these claims before and after our discussion. So no it most certainly is not a "dead horse".

I got that from the post, along with "old values" from scripture are just that, not in sync with today's European mores.

all sin is evil not just being gay. But with the story of sodom it was going to be destroyed because of their sinfulness and being gay was one of them. Lot even offered his girls but they said no. They wanted the men and it wasn't the attempt of rape that destroyed them it was what they had been doing all the time. you don't just start raping men but your decisions build up and grow worse and worse as the time goes by when you don't have God in your heart. there weren't even 10 people faithful to God in that city. The city was so destroyed that we don't know its real name Sodom and Gamorah I read is actually translated ashes and city of ruin. The fact is the story shows that it doesn't matter what sin we  are committing we need to leave that sin, dig it out of our heart and run to God and ask forgiveness and through his help change. Jesus is coming soon and we need to be ready and we can't with any sin in our hearts. I don't care if its being gay or lying or having an affair we must leave our ways and be with God's ways.

"all sin is evil not just being gay. <shortened here> I don't care if its being gay or lying or having an affair we must leave our ways and be with God's ways."

....and here you go again...

"all sin is evil not just being gay."

Being gay as in having a sexual orientation is not sin. Please get this one right for a change. There is not a single verse or instance in scripture where it can be said that either being heterosexual or homosexual by its own is sin.

If you are unable to see a distinction between a trait and an action you really need to educate yourself.

But with the story of sodom it was going to be destroyed because of their sinfulness and being gay was one of them."

Wrong again. 

Being gay was never one of their "sins" nor does the verses tell you that at all in fact they tell you something else. They are speaking from actions as in active engaging in something sinful and that there was a very long list among that sexual immorality.

 They wanted the men and it wasn't the attempt of rape that destroyed them it was what they had been doing all the time. you don't just start raping men but your decisions build up and grow worse and worse as the time goes by when you don't have God in your heart"

This one is an assumption which is not supported at all by scripture. You can assume or belief that but its not whats written in the text.

Furthermore rape no matter what kind of rape is not merely about sexual activity but has a lot of different causes and hidden meanings behind it. So to claim that this attempted gang-rape is proof for other sexual acts is a wrong claim and sociological studies all around the world show that very clearly.

Again educate yourself please.

The fact is the story shows that it doesn't matter what sin we  are committing we need to leave that sin, dig it out of our heart and run to God and ask forgiveness and through his help change.

With this one i can even agree with.

This leaves me however with one single question:

Why do you keep bearing false witness? Not only against specific persons like you did with MFG in this thread but as well with scripture itself and gods words?

I corrected t several times already and i will keep repeating it. The state of being is never ever considered sin and being gay is not a sin yet you keep coming back here over and over again and keep claiming the very same thing which is clearly and completely wrong in regards to scripture.

So tell me isnt bearing false witness against a person and misrepresenting what scripture actually tells you sin? Where in the bible it tells you you are allowed to lie about scripture and other people as long as you do it against homosexual people?

I don't care if its being gay or lying or having an affair we must leave our ways and be with God's ways.

And here we have it again. Being gay is no-more sin than being heterosexual. Why do you claim a homosexual person is committing sin without actually doing something and yet on the very same sentence you compare it to actual actions? These are not at all the same thing.

Actions can and often are sin. Being something or having a sexual orientation by itself is never sin.

RSS

Site Sponsors

 

Adventist Single?
Meet other Single
Adventists here:
Join Free


USA members:

Support AO by
using this link:
Amazon.com

 

© 2019   Created by Clark P.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service