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Drumming, the Bible and the Adventist doctrine. Please help me reconcile these three

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Music Is Made a Snare

     The things you have described as taking place in Indiana, [THESE COMMENTS WERE MADE IN CONNECTION WITH THE "HOLY FLESH" MOVEMENT AT THE INDIANA CAMP MEETING OF 1890. FOR FURTHER DETAILS, SEE SELECTED MESSAGES, BOOK 2, PP. 31-39.] the Lord has shown me would take place just before the close of probation. Every uncouth thing will be demonstrated. There will be shouting, with drums, music, and dancing. The senses of rational beings will become so confused that they cannot be trusted to make right decisions. . . .  {LDE 159.1}
    

A bedlam of noise shocks the senses and perverts that which if conducted aright might be a blessing. The powers of satanic agencies blend with the din and noise to have a carnival, and this is termed the Holy Spirit's working. . . . Those things which have been in the past will be in the future. Satan will make music a snare by the way in which it is conducted.--2SM 36, 38 (1900).  {LDE 159.2}
    

Let us give no place to strange exercisings, which really take the mind away from the deep movings of the Holy Spirit. God's work is ever characterized by calmness and dignity.--2SM 42 (1908).  {LDE 159.3}

 

Chap. 226 - Drums, Dancing and Noise

Let all things be done decently and in order. 1 Cor. 14:40.

 

Worship should not include a bedlam of noise.--It is impossible to estimate too largely the work that the Lord will accomplish through His proposed vessels in carrying out His mind and purpose. The things you have described as taking place in Indiana, the Lord has shown me would take place just before the close of probation. Every uncouth thing will be demonstrated. There will be shouting, with drums, music, and dancing. The senses of rational beings will become so confused that they cannot be trusted to make right decisions. And this is called the moving of the Holy Spirit.--2SM 36. {PaM 176.5}

 

In 1898 and 1899 Elder S. S. Davis, conference evangelist in Indiana, developed and promulgated teachings that led to this movement. The basic features of this strange doctrine, which was called "the cleansing message," were that when Jesus passed through the Garden of Gethsemane He had an experience that all who follow Him must have. It was taught that Jesus had holy flesh, and that those who followed Him through this Garden experience would likewise have holy flesh. They were then "born" sons of God and they had "translation" faith. Having holy flesh like Christ, they could not experience corruption any more than He did; thus they would live to see Him come. This faith, it was claimed, was similar to that which led to the translation of Enoch and Elijah. Those who did not have this experience were "adopted" sons. They did not have translation faith; they must pass through the grave and thus go to heaven by "the underground railway."  {5BIO 100.5}
    

Attempting to gain this Garden experience that would give them holy flesh, the people gathered in meetings in which there were long prayers, strange, loud instrumental music, and excited, extended, hysterical preaching. They were led to seek an experience of physical demonstration. Bass drums and the tambourines aided in this. It was expected that one, possibly more, of their number would fall prostrate to the floor. He would then be carried to the platform, where a dozen or more people would gather around and shout, "Glory to God!" while others prayed or sang. When this person regained consciousness, it was declared that he had passed through the Garden experience--he had holy flesh, he had translation faith!  {5BIO 101.1}
    

Under the guise of a great revival and the outpouring of the latter rain, the movement swept through the Indiana Conference. Late in 1899 the president, Elder R. S. Donnell, became a strong advocate of these views and was joined by most of the ministers in Indiana. In arranging for the camp meeting of 1900, he planned great things. He was unwilling that the two visiting General Conference brethren, Elders S. N. Haskell and A. J. Breed, be given much opportunity to reach the people. He warned his workers that these men did not have "this experience" and the ministers should not allow themselves to be influenced by them.  {5BIO 101.2}
    

As the conference president stood speaking one evening, he held his arms outstretched toward the congregation, and later reported that he had felt great power coursing down his arms and passing through his fingers out to the people.  {5BIO 101.3}
    

Elder Haskell reported that there was indeed a power, a strange power, in this new message. The people were bewildered. None wished to miss the experience of the outpouring of the Spirit of God. Translation faith seemed desirable. The teaching was a mixture of truth, error, excitement, and noise.  {5BIO 101.4}

I am not saying that we should have a bedlam of noise, nothing that I said is in opisition to what Ellen Whote wrote.

There will be shouting, with drums, music, and dancing. The senses of rational beings will become so confused that they cannot be trusted to make right decisions. And this is called the moving of the Holy Spirit.--2SM 36. {PaM 176.5}

I am not advocating that we do this. I thought I made it clear that it should not be loud and boistrous, read psalms 150 where is talks about timbrels and taberats, these were used in worship of God by Israel. When done correctly and not like in Indiana it is not evil.

Don't add to the word by saying that all drums are wrong, I have been in churches where the kind of things that Ellen White wrote about are done and I disagree with it as well.

same old same old please change the record.  If you want to get rid of drums you also need to get rid of the organ and the piano.  The first time we come across wind (organ) or string intruments in the bible is in Gen 4:21

 Where Jubal the descendent of Cain is said to be the father of such that handle the harp (String) and organ (wind).

Folks argue that drums have pagan origin in voodoo so where did the harp and the organ get their origin according to the bible it appears that the sons of cain were the first.   Now I wonder what they used their harp and organ for?  and yet David came along and used the harp to drive away evil spirits.

never, because that is what satan wants.....

I was telling this friend of mind that God's word is not controvercial.

At the end, God will have a people that will be on the same page

God bless

Please remember, friends, that topics that may seem old, worn, and beaten to us are new to other people. Let us not discourage and cast aside new and "renewed" believers when they have a question or concern. New brethren (some of which are young people) join this network every day and they may have questions to topics already discussed. Yes, they can always view old threads (which is a great resource) but to personally talk with some one and take time to answer their question has a greater impact than copying and pasting a link for them to read. I believe that every topic that glorifies God (even if they seem small, trivial, and inconsequential) is apart of "finishing the work". Still, it is not for man to say "when" but for God to say "It is done!" Just my two cents.

@ Charliebwoyo, every instrument in and of itself (including man) can be used to glorify God or satan. That's the bottom line.  It is not drums but the drumbeats that deserve scrutiny.

@ Shel I was referring to the answers of why no drum in the church rather than the question.  It was/is the same old partial answer of "drums have pagan origin or EGW talks about a bedlam of noise" as if the drum is the only instrument that has a pagan origin or the only instrument that can create ungodly  noise.  Time and time again we have folks using part of a text to try and give credit to their doctrine and fail to use the text completely other matters.

 

Someone said that pastor Myers proved that the DRUM was/is used in voodoo worship and he is abslutely right.

But is the drum the only instrument that is used to give glory to the devil.  If we are to use Myers example as standard then as I stated earlier we need to throw out the harp and organ as the biblical account points its origin to the sons of cain while secular history points it history to the egyptians.  So whether you accept the biblical or secular account they both point to a non Godly origin. 

 

So let us not be hyprocrites and cry down the drum while holding  the organ/ piano on a pedestal.  What is good for the goose is also good for the gander, let us arguments be consistent and stop having one rule for the drum and another rule for the organ.

Charliebwoyo......

it still comes to one question/concultion, and that is:

Where is your relationship with God is at.  

THAT IS ALL.

And help the young in Christ, in understanding THE WORD, and not man's opinion.

 

Personnally, when i go into the church building, i go in there with REVERENCE.

I can listen to music, with drums in it, all week.

The Sabbath is, for me, a day to visit/commune, with God.

So therefore, i prefer not to see a band in the Sancutuary.

The people playing those instiment, may loose out on the blessing, perhap, like Martha.

 

When you get to Heaven, are you going to carry your music instriment with you?

 

Just a thought.....:>)

well said Shel
If the thing is causing us to sin,let us stop, why? it is never right to sin.
As long as we observe reverence, such that a bystander will recognise without coming into the church. Reverence is the key aspect.

Current SDA doctrine approves of drums and with good reason. Drums are used and encouraged

for worship of our creator. These Biblical directives have been well referenced for those who are interested.

 

 

God is the head of this His Remnant Church.

The SDA doctrine on drums is God given and scripturally sound.

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