In the last year or 2 (jus my experience) I've seen a lot of drums used in the church for praise teams, and well pretty much anything else involving music. I have yet to see drums mentioned in the Bible. I've heard that instrument isn't mentioned there. I'm not sure but I believe Ellen White saw drums entering the church eventually too and wrote about that altho I couldn't find where right now. And I kno theres cultures out there who use them to summon spirits.. soo...yeah... lol. But does anyone else know anything around all this? Whats your take on it?
UPDATE (10/10 & 14/11): Over time I have learned a lot over the study of the Bible and SOP concerning the use of drums in the church. I don't want to make this reading extra long so I'll share some studies I have written it, with Scripture and SOP, as well as other sources with much even scientific evidence. God bless in your studies, and may we make the right decision.
MUSIC & THE 3 ANGELS MESSAGES -Fitzroy Anderson
SONIC WARFARE -Ivor Myers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gycnjC9R0XY | 1 (find this one, you find them all)
HEAVENLY MUSIC STARTING NOW
APPLAUSE, HAND WAIVING, DRUMMING, & DANCING IN THE CHURCH -Dr. Pipim
THE BEAST FROM THE ABYSS -Ivor Myers
https://www.audioverse.org/english/sermons/recordings/1163/the-beas... (please see also the other 3 connecting sermons located right below the player. Can't miss it)
Music seminar segment in THE SIGNS OF THE TIMES
http://youtu.be/a56TGXoRWqY (Music and the Great Controversy)
http://youtu.be/EYXSwtcWrTU (Patterns from Music)
http://youtu.be/PH8U9yxRgVs (Satan's Musical church)
http://youtu.be/kU1cNcyjW2o (Music and the Emerging Church)
DRUMS, ROCK, AND WORSHIP
Some of my own studies
https://www.facebook.com/groups/113374262012937/ <-- A growing group of SDA Youth on Facebook against secular music in our church.
Dwayne Lemon Testimony <-- hitting real close to home, maybe even there, actually..
Please friends, no more "I think", "I feel" answers. Lets study it out. I understand there will be disagreement, I've seen this in my journey to get an answer. We are Seventh-Day Adventists who seek citizenship in heaven! ...however :) That comes first, and heaven should be our culture. Lets be honest, sincere, and willing to look at the evidence. These are, after all, well learned Seventh-Day Adventists, who base what they will share on Scripture. After all, we too need to remember who we are.
He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him. - Proverbs 18:13 KJV
Seminar: Music-Dwayne Lemon
History repeats itself:
God's Instruction on Music:
Music, the Sanctuary, and the Judgement:
Criticizing is of the devil.... That is not at all the purpose of this post. Discerning, and learning, is quite another. I used to see nothing wrong with drums too, but just because we haven't yet found something, in some cases, does not mean there is nothing wrong at all. Keep looking ;) Please... do... respectfully of course.
Why does the suggestion of having to be dead then need be brought up? We are not to be dead, but we NEED to understand, like our Example Jesus always did, what time we are living in.... in our case, the Day of Atonement. Please prayerfully research the links shared above. They will be a tremendous blessing :)
We need to be sure we are filled with the right spirit... after all.
Hi, just browsing this old thread, but this response caught my eye.
"I am an adventist and I am not going to worship at any dead church.When I leave a service I must be spirit filled."
That is the exact thing wrong with the way we worship---we are seeking to please ourselves. Hopefully during the week we were filled with the spirit already, and the sabbath just tops it off. But the reality is, worship or praise time is now like a pep rally. So we take an hour or more getting boosted up by these praise teams till we ---FEEL something. Or as they say catch the spirit. Our problem is that we have no connection to God, and we try to reach him as it appeals to our senses (feelings). For example some of the young people might complain, or be bored--adults as well. But how can you come into an atmosphere of holiness when six days you have filled yourself up on TV, MTV, BET, video games etc.... You immediately become bored, especially if it is not your type of praise. What is that? I never uderstand what people mean by "My type of praise" "My worship style".
To be fair, and dont get me wrong sometimes it is just plain boring. But not because of the Most High, but us. If we sing all hymns I dont care. But sing like you love the Lord, sing like your happy, read the scripture like God was actually talking to you. All this is apart of worship. Music is important, and whether reverent or not, secular or not it sets a certain tone. I have been to churches that had drums, and you would never know (very tactful), and others where with every beat I could feel my insides turning. I could do without it personally.
But what it all boils down to : Is what I am presenting to God acceptable to him?
Still have to look at this topic more personally.
Blessings to you,
Hi Barbee... not sure how this relates to drums/music in our church, but, it was an interesting video with a valid point.
Just a general answer/question... Why is it those for drums are not providing any SOP or Scripture to defend their stance? Psalm 150 has already been explained line upon line btw... to discover its correct context. If u are curios please also read the previous chapter...
But why is it only opinions are being offered to defend drums? Are we not a people of the book? Do we not study our Bibles? Why does it seem by the reply of some that this is no important matter? Was it not a trap for God's people before the promised land? Do an exhaustive study of Numbers 25 and around.. you'll prove to yourself it was in fact a trap. Ellen White said it will be a trap used by Satan in the last days again? History is repeating... friends.... and some of us are falling for this trap wwaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyy to easily. I mean no offense but I am very disappointed in that some of my brothers and sisters here cannot provide ANY Scripture, but then, make it seem as if there is nothing wrong.
Does the Day of Atonement mean anything to us? Or is it that we have failed to understand it, as it reveals even our work, our position...
More than enough evidence HAS been provided proving we need to take action, are we going to be as STUBBORN as the Israel of old as well?
Sorry for the emphasis on some of these words... I'm just deeply saddened by some of these replies which contain NO Bible authority at all behind any of them... sigh...
Please.... friends, study it out. Above are provided very, very helpful recourses by Seventh-Day Adventists.. some musicians, some very familiar w/ Bible and SOP, some who were in the world and have powerful testimonies with scientific evidences and more...
...Study it out, please.
Hold on, hold on, hold on......to as much of the world as you possibly can without "compromising" your faith. Let's hang on to as much of the world as we possibly can and still make it to heaven.
Those things come to mind when I get on this website and come in contact with many SDA's. When I say this, I'm speaking for what I have witnessed. No one cares about Sabbath after church is over. They use excuses to break Sabbath. No one cares about country living, the health message, dress, drums.....To sum it all up; lifestyle changes. When you preach the straight truth, people's opinions become equal with the bible and they don't even realize that they have done so. We are definitely in the last days and I believe that Jesus will come soon (if we cooperate). It burdens my heart to say this, but a lot of SEVENTH DAY ADVENTISTS in name WILL be lost because of the very things that are discussed on this website.
No one seeking the scriptures like they should and it shows when FALSE doctrines come up in conversation and most SDA's support it; OR when those false doctrines come up, no one can defend their faith like we are told we should be able to. It is a shame and we ought to be ashamed for not being ashamed.
First day pastors tear down the Sabbath and we invite them to our churches and some on this website even support those pastors. What!!! Some of us don't even believe that EGW was a prophet. What!!! We ignore her writings as if God did not use her. What!!! The very things that she spoke of are happening at an alarming rate and if I was in any of those situations that she mentioned, I would be scared to death. But surprisingly or not, many don't even care.
People asking what can we buy on Sabbath and others respond as if that is a normal question. I know there are some exceptions BUT some of you are actually looking for things to buy on Sabbath. What happened to preparing? Are we that careless about GOD'S Sabbath that we half prepare? We focus on relationships and "finding" someone and so on, and we aren't even in the condition to receive anyone. We should be making more thread on the three angels message, understanding REAL prophecies (not these false ones that we embrace). But no, our minds are so clouded by junk that these topics, when they are seldomly mentioned, are filled with false theories. I'm not trying to ramble, but people we need to wake up, like right now!!!!
Lots of interesting points. People are in fact holding on to the world, at the choice of ignoring, or doing what they can to not remember:
Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. - James 4:4 KJV
It appears that there is some frustration in your answer, and I too have encountered many "Seventh-Day Adventists" who claim the name and do not live the lifestyle <-- ... lifestyle... is actually what its all about. By our fruits, we look no different to the world.. and this does include our music on many, many occasions.
Music I do not think is the most important thing we should discuss... I am honestly one in life and in my talk with others who has as you say, done everything I could to focus on the 3 angels message. 1 through 3, not just the parts of them that may sound nice and soft.. but all 3. Not only that, the sanctuary message is of utmost importance in our church.. and that too is so often ignored. Some of us may be able to name some of the articles of furniture and name some basics... but are we living the experience, which btw is the Day of Atonement.
See, thats where I can say a topic such as music is important, too. People are allowing celebration music with the very patterns of the world come into our church. Actually, we've allowed it, to be more realistic. It proves a lot, but I don't want to be hard. I know cuz I've made the mistakes too... but as for the "trap set" ppl dearly defend, and the modern music styles taking over.. hence this thread... I do believe we should be aware and very aware of it and take a stand for what is right, today. We have been warned:
A bedlam of noise shocks the senses and perverts that which if conducted aright might be a blessing. The powers of satanic agencies blend with the din and noise to have a carnival, and this is termed the Holy Spirit’s working.... Those things which have been in the past will be in the future. Satan will make music a snare by the way in which it is conducted.—Selected Messages 2:36, 38 (1900).
And btw, to whoever else may read this, when she writes, "if conducted aright might be a blessing" is not referring to how we use drums, rather, how we worship. If THAT is conducted right.
KayCee... I do share your other concerns btw.. I just wanted to show that this too, ties into the 3 angels message and sanctuary. The 2nd angel declares Babylon is fallen, Babylon... confusion.. yet we listen to confusing music producing confusing scenes many times set paced by the trap set. Whats mostly frustrating is that any "refutation" of this reply will be done so, if so, by opinions and nothing else.
I actually do not know where to start. Let me say this. Maybe you misunderstood my post OR I misunderstood yours. I do not stand for drums in church nor do I listen to music with drums in it. I came from a 1st day church and know the dangers of that kind of music. I never stated that this issue does not tie into the sanctuary message or three angels. I never even stated that drums aren't an issue in the SDA church because they are. I know very well how these things tie in together.
My friend you do not have to try and prove this drum issue with me. It was proven years ago with no problem. If there is an issue with drums then yes it should be discussed. These topics are the majority of topics discussed. When things such as sanctuary message is mentioned, it is pushed down out of sight, derailed, or false theories come in them and drive others away. I greatly appreciate your stance on this issue. I think sometimes we focus on things that are of no value when they are singled out. For example we stress Sabbath and can't explain how it fits into the Great Controversy (not the book).
I wanted to add details just in case.. I can't say I know your history. Based on how you view other issues I figured possibly where you would stand on music, but, I hate to assume, and really rather not so thanks for your reply. I did not intend to direct those comments to you, rather, only to explain some of where I was coming from generally.
I reply paragraph by paragraph most times, meaning, I'll read paragraph one, pause, reply, continue part by part. I like to try not leave parts of people's replies out, so to make sure I am paying attention to them, but this time I did not with yours, I started to, but I did not.. so I'm sorry if I did misunderstand anything. Only meant to generally explain my own experience, which by the fruit of many recent replies.... has surprised me greatly.
Its interesting, that we do single things out. Jewelry, the Sabbath, eating flesh food, whatever else... and don't really tie in it to exactly that.. the great controversy. I believe its important to understand what time we are living in and have our testimony (lifestyle) reflect that. We do need to be able to understand these things in the overall context of the great controversy.
After all, the enemy is using subtle, not obvious traps...
I believe we are in agreement.
For those who think Jose has all the answer, or think Jose thinks he has all the answers, I'd suggest the book: http://www.youth-ministry.info/The-Contemporary-Christian-Music-Deb... yep. that's what i'd suggest.
Thank you for your suggestions. I don't have all the answers btw, but I do encourage people to investigate. So yeah, feel free people to look into Mr Stiles' link... look at all the info there and some of the links above as well and make an intelligent decision with much prayer coming before. By all means...
So long as we're not making worship about what makes US feel good instead of remembering its about God and remembering we are in the Day of Atonement then by all means.
As long as its not opinion based and brings a sense of emotionalism and an "its all good" attitude, then by all means.
As long as its not outside charismatic 1st day churches teaching SDAs how to do our job.. then by all means.
As long as its Biblically founded with SOP behind it, then by all means.
Because anything else would be a waste of our precious, soon ending time.