Drums in Worship-Is it Acceptable?
Is music with drums along with rock/jazz/blues styles OK for worship in church? As long as the lyrics are good, what’s the problem? Does Ellen White have any light on the subject, or does she not speak to modern times?
It is impossible to estimate too largely the work that the Lord will accomplish through His proposed vessels in carrying out His mind and purpose. The things you have described as taking place in Indiana, the Lord has shown me would take place just before the close of probation. Every uncouth thing will be demonstrated. There will be shouting, with drums, music, and dancing. The senses of rational beings will become so confused that they cannot be trusted to make right decisions. And this is called the moving of the Holy Spirit. {2SM 36.2}
The Holy Spirit never reveals itself in such methods, in such a bedlam of noise. This is an invention of Satan to cover up his ingenious methods for making of none effect the pure, sincere, elevating, ennobling, sanctifying truth for this time. Better never have the worship of God blended with music than to use musical instruments to do the work which last January was represented to me would be brought into our camp meetings. The truth for this time needs nothing of this kind in its work of converting souls. A bedlam of noise shocks the senses and perverts that which if conducted aright might be a blessing. The powers of satanic agencies blend with the din and noise, to have a carnival, and this is termed the Holy Spirit's working.
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{2SM 36.3}
It is impossible to estimate too largely the work that the Lord will accomplish through His proposed vessels in carrying out His mind and purpose. The things you have described as taking place in Indiana, the Lord has shown me would take place just before the close of probation. Every uncouth thing will be demonstrated. There will be shouting, with drums, music, and dancing. The senses of rational beings will become so confused that they cannot be trusted to make right decisions. And this is called the moving of the Holy Spirit. {2SM 36.2}
The Holy Spirit never reveals itself in such methods, in such a bedlam of noise. This is an invention of Satan to cover up his ingenious methods for making of none effect the pure, sincere, elevating, ennobling, sanctifying truth for this time. Better never have the worship of God blended with music than to use musical instruments to do the work which last January was represented to me would be brought into our camp meetings. The truth for this time needs nothing of this kind in its work of converting souls. A bedlam of noise shocks the senses and perverts that which if conducted aright might be a blessing. The powers of satanic agencies blend with the din and noise, to have a carnival, and this is termed the Holy Spirit's working.
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{2SM 36.3}
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Adetiloye Samuel Oloyede on -
There is no problem as long as it is moderate. Psalm 150 support it.
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Permalink Reply by Stephen Billiter on -
No it does not. A careful study will show the hand drum was not used in the sanctuary.
So "moderate" rock-n-roll in church is OK? Is moderate sin OK?
Psa 150:1 Praise ye the LORD. Praise God in his sanctuary: praise him in the firmament of his power.
Psa 150:2 Praise him for his mighty acts: praise him according to his excellent greatness.
Psa 150:3 Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp.
Psa 150:4 Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.
Psa 150:5 Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals.
Psa 150:6 Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. Praise ye the LORD
Notice the text does not say praise him with the timbrel and dance IN the sanctuary.
There is also textual evidence that dance is translated "pipe" a musical instrument. the idea that dancing was permitted in the sanctuary is absurd.
http://www.drpipim.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&a...
Are you saying the Lord’s prophet is wrong? Consider this:
3. DRUMMING OR USE OF DRUMS IN WORSHIP SERVICE
The Bible is not opposed to the use of musical instruments in the Seventh-day Adventist church. In fact, Mrs. White encouraged the tasteful use of musical instruments. However, she was emphatic that it is better never to have the worship of God blended with music than to use musical instruments to create “a bedlam of noise” that shocks the senses and perverts the worship. “The Holy Spirit never reveals [Himself] in such methods, in such a bedlam of noise.” (2 Selected Messages, p. 36).
She stressed that music suited to the stage was foreign to the worship context. Forced or strained vocal deliveries that emphasize loudness, along with undignified, unrefined gestures and “acting attitudes,” are out of keeping with the worship atmosphere of Heaven. The “softer,” “finer,” “sweeter,” “more silvery strains” are “more like angel music,” whereas opposite attributes tend to be driven by self-centered “love of praise.” (3 Selected Messages, p. 335).
The specific issue we want to address is should drumming be a legitimate part of worship service. Does it have any use at all the religious life of the church. Space limitations will only permit a brief discussion here.
Musical Instruments in the Bible. Among the prominent musical instruments mentioned in the Bible are: harp, lyre, cymbal, trumpet, ram’s horn (shofar) and drums. Of these, the drum is the focus of our interest. In Scripture, whether it is referred to as tambourine, timbrel or tabret, it simply means a “hand-drum.” Our study will show that in every reference of its use in the Bible, drums were used outside the sanctuary service—in a common type of setting (e.g., social settings or festive celebrations).
a. Sanctuary Worship. The Lord specified three types of instruments to be used by the Levites in the Sanctuary. These are:harp, lyre [or stringed instrument], and the cymbal (1 Chronicles 25:1).
Note: The drum is not mentioned. Of the three instruments mentioned, the harp and lyre were, essentially, the same type of stringed instrument. They were both harps. One (the harp) played the higher register while the other (the lyre) played the lower range. The only percussive instrument listed is cymbal, an instrument that was apparently used to mark the pauses or intermissions. Some Bible scholars speculate that the term “Selah,” which is often found in Psalms, may have indicated the place where the cymbal was struck.
The same three musical instruments are mentioned in 1 Chronicles 25:6, with added instruction that the chosen musicians were to be under the instruction of their fathers (men of music, and most importantly, spiritual excellence).
In 2 Chronicles 29:25, during the time of Hezekiah, it is made very clear that the instruction regarding music, musical instruments, and musicians originated with God Himself. It reads:
“And he stationed the Levites in the house of the LORD with cymbals, with stringed instruments, and with harps, according to the commandment of David, of Gad the king’s seer, and of Nathan the prophet; for thus was the commandment of the LORD by His prophets” (2 Chron 29:25).
b. Assorted “Drums Texts” in the Bible. Though drums were apparently NOT employed in the sanctuary service, they were used in festivals and celebrations outside of the sanctuary. Here are some relevant texts:
1.Genesis 31:27—Laban’s words to Jacob. Drums (tabrets) to have been used in farewell celebration.
"Why did you flee away secretly, and steal away from me, and not tell me; for I might have sent you away with joy and songs, with timbrel and harp?"
2. 1 Samuel 10:5-6—Samuel predicts that after Saul’s anointment, he would be met by prophets playing various musical instruments (including drums or tambourine).
“5After that you shall come to the hill of God where the Philistine garrison is. And it will happen, when you have come there to the city, that you will meet a group of prophets coming down from the high place with a stringed instrument, a tambourine, a flute, and a harp before them; and they will be prophesying. 6 Then the Spirit of the LORD will come upon you, and you will prophesy with them and be turned into another man.”
3. Job 17:6—the Hebrew word used for what the King James Version refers to as “tabret” is the wordtophet, which refers to an act of “spitting.” Apparently, the word tophet was confused by the translators with the word toph which means a “hand drum.”
“But He has made me a byword of the people, And I have become [as a tabret, KV] one in whose face men spit (NKJV).”
4. Job 21:11-14—Context refers to celebration outside the sanctuary
“1 They send forth their little ones like a flock, And their children dance. 12 They sing to thetambourine and harp,And rejoice to the sound of the flute. 13 They spend their days in wealth, And in a moment go down to the grave. 14 Yet they say to God, ‘Depart from us, For we do not desire the knowledge of Your ways.”
5. Psalm 81:2—Refers to the celebration of the exodus and the Lord’s victory over the Egyptians. It was outside the sanctuary.
“Raise a song and strike the timbrel, The pleasant harp with the lute.”
6. Isaiah 24:8—refers to the sound of music ceasing at the desolation of the earth.
“The mirth of the tambourine ceases, The noise of the jubilant ends, The joy of the harp ceases.”
7. Jeremiah 31:4—God’s promise of restoration and a description of the celebration that would be expressed by the children of Israel upon their return from the Babylonian captivity.
“O virgin of Israel! You shall again be adorned with your tambourines, And shall go forth in the dances of those who rejoice.”
8. Ezekiel 28:13—reference to the musical ability of Lucifer before his fall.
“You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The sardius, topaz, and diamond, Beryl, onyx, and jasper, Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold. The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes was prepared for you on the day you were created.”
c. “Drum Texts” Associated with Disobedience
Isaiah 5:11-13—Disobedience of Israel
1 Chronicles 13:7-10—David disobeyed God’s commandment about how the ark was to be transported. When he repented, he did the right thing. But this time drums (trimbrels) NOT included (see 1 Chronicles 15:12-24).
d. “Drum Texts” Associated with Battle
Exodus 15:1-5, 20-21—In connection with the victory over the Egyptians at the Red Sea
Judges 11:34—Jephthah’s daughter met her father “with trimbrels and with dances.” The celebration was in response to the victory in the battle over the Ammonites.
1 Samuel 18:6, 7—Celebration of the women after David killed Goliath
Isaiah 30:31-33—Celebration over the Lord’s victory over the Assyrians.
Psalm 149—Drums used in celebration of God’s victory over all his enemies. (For a further discussion of Psalm 149 and Psalm 150, see the next section on dancing).
Psalm 150—For some, verse 1 presents a problem because it speaks of praising God “in His Sanctuary.” However, Psalm 150 is the final great finale to the Hallelujah series of Psalms that commence in Psalms 146. Psalm 150 concludes this series with a final call for everything (whether on earth or in heaven) that has breath to join in the praise anthem of God. Verse 1 is simply an invitation to those in heaven (the heavenly sanctuary) to worship God in “the firmament of His power” (see SDA Bible Commentary, vol. 3, p. 941, revised ed.). The text reads: “Praise God in his sanctuary [which is in]: the firmament of his power.”
These “battle drum texts” emphasize the celebration that takes place when God granted victory. But some will say, we must use drums and dancing in the church to celebrate the victories God has given us in our spiritual battles over sin. The question is: Did the Israelites win spiritual battles over sin in their lives? How come the bible doesn’t give a record of that. It is interesting that there is no reference to drums (timbrel) being used in the New Testament. Historical records showed that drumming and dancing were banned because of their association with common and profane things.
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Permalink Reply by Em Murr on -
Hello my Brother again you have summed it up "Greatly". We know that these tones (Drum Type) does nothing but cause a Distraction to the Devine Worship Service. The Cymbal in Very good & humble moderation, is all that I see, that was & may be used.
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Permalink Reply by Stephen Billiter on
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thanks brother em, all deviant music styles creates a desire for more of the same leading the thoughts away from God and to the earthly, and sensual. I see nothing good in the drums, the rock-n-roll, and all that. What is disconcerting is when church leaders bring all that in thinking its good. Now is the time to focus upon Christ, and not the world.
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Permalink Reply by Stephen Billiter on
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Excellent point! very true. Where do people get the idea any kind of bebop noise is acceptable to God? I believe the profane banging on drums drives the Holy angels away;how can they sing along with such perversion? Ian hit the nail on the head, it distracts attention away from God.
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Permalink Reply by Stephen Billiter on
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i agree with the first part you say. But the second part seems to contradict the first! If God says your norms violate my laws, who's right? There are some pagan practices still in existance where they mutulate themselves horribly as a religous practice.it is a norm beause all th people in that culture accept it.God has a different opinion. The real problem is man' sin malady. With conversion, a new attitude comes into being that is in agreement with the Holy Spirit
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Permalink Reply by Stephen Billiter on
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Y, thanks for your righteous stand against drums. I’m not so sure EGW said the organ was the only instrument acceptable, she may have said preferable. I did a full text search on organ and got 300 hits, most on body organs, I didn’t look through them all
A Before children take lessons on the organ or the piano they should be given lessons in cooking. The work of learning to cook need not exclude music, but to learn music is of less importance than to learn how to prepare food that is wholesome and appetizing. {CD 263.4}
A plan quite common in Sweden, but new to us, was adopted to supply the lack of an organ. A lady who occupied a room adjoining the meeting-hall, and who had charge of the building, was a skillful player on the guitar, and possessed a sweet, musical voice; at public worship she was accustomed to supply the place of both choir and instrument. At our request she played and sang at the opening of our meetings.--HS 195. {PaM 179.3}
The church is of solid brick. The seats are cushioned and the floor carpeted. There is a pipe organ built into the wall, and there is also a good piano. {7MR 328.3}
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Permalink Reply by ZJOutback on -
Tymbral is a hand drum and David says that it should be used in sanctuary. Read the whole of Psalm 150 not just the first verse.
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Permalink Reply by N Him on -
The answer to the question is yes.
But then this has been beat round and round on this forum and if one searches ... he can find lots of good material on this topic.
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Permalink Reply by Sean Davis on -
its not about the numbers
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Permalink Reply by Stephanie on -
Hi Gabriel - I don't think having us look to the example from a movie with fictitious characters and storylines will really bring growth to the church. We need to look to the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy and the advice given there otherwise we will just be following the world.
And yes, Pastor Doug does a great job with evangelism and stays within the traditional method. He's a great example of a church being able to grow without all the "smoke and lights".
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