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Is music with drums along with rock/jazz/blues styles OK for worship in church? As long as the lyrics are good, what’s the problem? Does Ellen White have any light on the subject, or does she not speak to modern times?

It is impossible to estimate too largely the work that the Lord will accomplish through His proposed vessels in carrying out His mind and purpose. The things you have described as taking place in Indiana, the Lord has shown me would take place just before the close of probation. Every uncouth thing will be demonstrated. There will be shouting, with drums, music, and dancing. The senses of rational beings will become so confused that they cannot be trusted to make right decisions. And this is called the moving of the Holy Spirit. {2SM 36.2}
The Holy Spirit never reveals itself in such methods, in such a bedlam of noise. This is an invention of Satan to cover up his ingenious methods for making of none effect the pure, sincere, elevating, ennobling, sanctifying truth for this time. Better never have the worship of God blended with music than to use musical instruments to do the work which last January was represented to me would be brought into our camp meetings. The truth for this time needs nothing of this kind in its work of converting souls. A bedlam of noise shocks the senses and perverts that which if conducted aright might be a blessing. The powers of satanic agencies blend with the din and noise, to have a carnival, and this is termed the Holy Spirit's working.
37
{2SM 36.3}

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Steven- as I'm rereading your response.... I just want to quickly clarify, for any readers of your response that, in regards to the comment you made, "it isn't really fair to say that it is silly to discuss extremes"- I would agree with you and amend my position, if that's what I said.  I didn't write that it's silly to discuss extremes, but that it's silly to clump all music into two categories only. I guess I didn't make that clear.

ah, thank-you Ray, for that clarification, that you're referring to the extremes in all your comments. in my SDA neighborhood, outside of my particular church, and except for a silent minority in other churches, there seems to be no differentiation between the extremes and all that's in between them, so I incorrectly assumed you were of that perspective.  //  i agree with you about what distinguishes "good" from "bad" music in church, based on what I read in Scripture; even though, I suspect, one song done a particular way might draw your mind closer to God and not me, and vice-versa. // Honestly, when I came into the SDA church, I hated hymns and all I grew up thinking they reflected and supported in the often less-than-Christlike-loving and downright "stuffy" character of those people with whom i attended church. BUT, after i became an Adventist, got involved with small groups, I realized over time that hymns meant a great deal to some of the most caring, soft-spoken, tolerant and gentlest Christians I had ever met- SO, I've learned to appreciate what hymns have to offer in church services (even those hymns that sometimes make me cringe in boredom). // Look forward to singing with you, in Heaven and on Earth forever...  God bless!  :]

Paul didn't fall in line just because it was peter. I am so thankful we in the SDA church have no Papacy that is infallible.

Hi Steven,

 

Before I serve up any other texts,  I would like to ask you what you understand as "church" in NT times? And also what you understand worship to be?

 

Blessings

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Since I grew up in the church, I will share from experience. My view as a young man, was much what you presented. There was church life and there was everyday life. The two compartments had been very well established in me until God got me and turned my world upside down. Through the revelation of Scripture, I discovered that: for the Christian there is no divide from the sacred and the secular. (I guess for part time Christians there is). For authentic Christians, everything you do, is done for the glory of God (1 Cor 10:31). So, even if you are a plumber, your ministry at work to unbelievers (sharing your testimony and the Word of God) is as sacred as the pastor preaching on Sabbath. Paul makes reference to this "new" attitude for believers when dealing with the issue of slavery (Eph 6:7).

David realized something hundreds of years ago, that not many Christians have even caught up to in our day and age: "Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from Your presence?" (139:7). In reality, Jesus is with us all times. Learning to develop an awareness of His presence is what releases the voice of the Lord in our lives.

I would ask: is our worship at church (in a building) more sacred than our worship under a tree on a mountain side? Doesn't Jesus say He is where two or more are gathered (Mt 18:20)?

[A side note: The church (people of God) moved into sacred buildings when Christianity was legalized and went into apostasy several hundred years after the ekklēsia was established by Christ. We have been influenced more by Catholic tradition than most realize.]

For me this idea of sacred clothes and secular clothes is ridiculous. The idea of sacred music and secular music - likewise. If you can't listen to music with drums during a service, I'm not sure if you should be listening to that music at all.

I believe we should give our whole being to Him in service and worship (Rom 12:1). This includes ministry to the world during the week and ministry to the body on Sabbath. This also includes praising Him through out the week and a mighty celebration of His goodness and greatness on Sabbath (Ps 35:18).

Now, for some texts on instruments for your perusal:

Firstly the 2 Chronicles 5:11-14 text I previously supplied does relate as you stated for the dedication of the newly built sanctuary. But you must understand the Levites (singers) and Asaph (musician) along with many were in the sanctuary at "east end of the altar" (v12). And as I stated before when the glory cloud filled the Temple, they were all knocked out. Why? Because they were in the Temple.

David did not collect instruments just for an opening ceremony (1 Chr 23:5). They were to be used on a continual basis:

2 Chronicles 29:25 "And he stationed the Levites in the house of the LORD with cymbals, with stringed instruments, and with harps, according to the commandment of David, of Gad the king’s seer, and of Nathan the prophet; for thus was the commandment of the LORD by His prophets."

Worship with instruments before the Lord began while David was still alive when bringing the Ark to Jerusalem:

2 Sam 6:5 “Then David and all the house of Israel played music before the LORD on all kinds of instruments of fir wood, on harps, on stringed instruments, on tambourines, on sistrums, and on cymbals.”

1 Chr 13:8 “Then David and all Israel played music before God with all their might, with singing, on harps, on stringed instruments, on tambourines, on cymbals, and with trumpets.”

1 Chr 15:16 “Then David spoke to the leaders of the Levites to appoint their brethren to be the singers accompanied by instruments of music, stringed instruments, harps, and cymbals, by raising the voice with resounding joy.”

1 Chr 16:5 "Asaph the chief, and next to him Zechariah, then Jeiel, Shemiramoth, Jehiel, Mattithiah, Eliab, Benaiah, and Obed-Edom: Jeiel with stringed instruments and harps, but Asaph made music with cymbals;”

1 Chr 16:42 “And with them Heman and Jeduthun with trumpets and cymbals for those that should make a sound, and with musical instruments of God.”

Now. going back to Psalm 150:1. David said to praise God "in His mighty firmament" as they did on their way top Jerusalem and to "Praise God in His sanctuary" as they did after the building of the temple in Jerusalem.

What I find interesting is that the church in Jerusalem should speak about the tabernacle of David being re-established (Acts 15"16). James quotes from Amos 9:11 and understood the people (Jews and gentiles) would worship together (as all have been accepted into the Beloved), continually offering a sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of our lips,offering praise (Heb 13:5).

Blessings!



Love your thought process if it can't be good in a religious service it shouldn't be good anywhere. For the real Temple of God is the one HE is hewing out of you and me.

There are just as many inspired men and women of God who have the opposite perspective than Doug Batchelor and the others that you have mentioned.  

 

We are reminded that this is all about avoiding extremes and about seeking to differentiate personal opinions and biases from what is in Scripture.

I agree

i agree samuel

it has to be subdued a supporting instrument and played in an appropriate  manner

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No drums should be allowed in God's church especially during worship, this is not a party or some blocko; Christians should be reverent when in the presence of the lord. Some get so worldly they even dance in church.

Do you hear the message or only the drum beat in the background?

I used to be like Jason. NO DRUMS. Until i realized that it is not the instrument being shunned, but how its played. It depends on the individual. At one time the piano and organ we considered satanic instruments and unfit to be used in a sanctuary...why? Because of how they were commonly used. Is that the case today? Are pianos satanic? No...then neither are drums. It is the individual who does not give themselves fully to Christ which is in error and not the instrument. Played correctly and not loudly, the drum can be used to set an atmosphere fit for the Holy Spirit to come and dwell with His people. Play incorrectly, and they can be used to invite demons to give unsuspecting people the sense of true worship, and the idea that they are having a "holy ghost" experience, which is NOT OF GOD. In closing its the individual. The problem in the SDA church is...the individuals playing these instruments are not truly converted, and it shows in the music. God is not mocked.

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