What caused the visions of EGW to stop altogether after the 1870's?
Were dreams the only source of information after that time? Or how was the information received?
All that you suggested can be influenced and manipulated. Eve when she partaken of the forbidden fruit was "comforted" by Satans words, did not sense that "evil was near," and was impressed with the "delivery of his message." But that did not save her from his deception. Where did she go wrong? The question still stands, how do you discern whether a supposed divine message is from God?
Are you sure you are an Adventist? Asking me a question about Eve in the garden and comparing our illiterate and non-experienced ancestors with us seems to be something a non-Adventist or atheist would do just to confuse things? You do know I also have a degree in Philosophy, don't you? David.
With respect, I am not sure why you bring up your degree in philosophy. In addition, I am not sure what illiteracy or experience have to do withwith Eve's fall. Are you suggesting that Gods command was not enough? What kind of experience would Eve have to pass through to avoid deception?
Please remember that the original question is how do you discern if something is of God or not? My original point being that in Herbs post, he was not qualified to judge the writings as being of a deluded mind. In fact, that is more of a slanderous attack on the character of the person and does not hold any evidence that EGW writings were not of God.
I think I detect in you not a person with questions, but a person wanting to shake other people's faith, and I do not play those games.
As to Adam and Eve, really? Newly created, barely knowing right from wrong, and tempted into wrong compared to a prophet of God with over 2000 years of written history (experience) to draw on and a relationship with God that is close, and you think they are equal? How many babies have you handed loaded pistols to today? As far as my degree in Philosophy among others, I wanted you to be careful who you said was unqualified to speak. I learn a lot just by listening to discussions.
Dear Brother David,
I am sorry you feel that way as that is certainly not my intention. It is true that my questions are not without purpose but its end is not mischievous as you suppose. It your viewpoint is in adhering to an erroneous view, I can see how you can become confused by the questions. But that should only be an indication that you may not fully be established on a thus saith the Lord. In my opinion, your logic is relying solely on human reasoning and lacks faith in the explicit word of God.
Consider Adam and Eve. Do you realize if their sin can be excused that God is at fault, not Adam or Eve? Therefore, if you say that Adam and Eve are inexperienced, then it is Gods fault for allowing the tempter into the Garden to tempt them at such an early stage. Furthermore, you say that they had no conception of wrong or right. Well that would be true for they were to be eternally ignorant of evil. By eating the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil, they thus gained a knowledge of Evil.
In closing, do not flatter yourself with the idea that questions about your perspective with a cherished idea is someone trying to do you harm. In my case, its quite the opposite. I am trying to increase your faith in a thus saith the Lord, to accept the word as it reads and to trust that God in all fairness equipped Adam and Eve with the tools needed to avoid Satans deceptions in the Garden. We are no better off in our fallen humanity than Adam and Eve were in there pre-fallen condition, who had much greater intellect then we have today.
p.s. no need to get offended. You will never obtain truth by being defensive. Have a spirit of meekness and humbleness. "The meek shall inherit the Earth"
I had a quick look, and there seems to be quite a few references to visions post 1874.
For example :
"In 1905, Ellen White, in vision, saw Elder Prescott with some others in a meeting where discouraging aspects of the work were dwelt upon and "possibilities of a discouraging nature were presented" (Ms 115, 1905). A heavenly messenger stood before those present and admonished, "You are to serve God more perfectly. I have not found thy ways perfect before God. There is need of trustful, unwavering faith and joy in the Lord." (Ibid.) (10MR 333)
"In the fall of 1903 I had a vision of a sanitarium in the midst of beautiful grounds, somewhere in southern California, and no property I had visited answered to the presentation given in this vision. At the time, I wrote about this vision to our brethren and sisters assembled at the Los Angeles camp meeting early in September, 1903." (Life Sketches p.405).
But in the Bible isn't it quite normal for the prophets to have visions over a certain time-frame, and then the visions taper off in number, or stop altogether? We don't need to expect more of Ellen White than we do of the other prophets, do we?
Well, I just did not know, but I suspected that if God is speaking to you and you are praying to Him, then as a prophet your visions and dreams would continue all your life.
Can we point to any of the prophets, and say that he [or she] received visions for their entire lives? I don't think we have a precedent on this.
(And yet I'm not suggesting that Ellen White did not receive visions right up until her death. Note that I've just cited a 1903 vision, and a 1905 vision.)
Good point; however, I point to the Bible and the odd incident of a prophet who was bribed to speak against God's people. It seems to be once your a prophet, you are always a prophet, no matter what you do.
David, I acknowledge your reference to Balaam, but still, 'once a prophet, always a prophet', sounds unsafe to me. It has a similar ring to "once saved, always saved".
I think what Keith is refering to are visions accomapanied by fainting and what appeared to be tonic-colonic seizures. These events lessened as she aged, and she indicated that her visions were now dreams, (Like Daniel's).
Keith, is this correct?
We are not talking here about Ellen Whites visions in general, but rather her visions accompanied by faints and/or seizures?
No-one is questioning now that Ellen White claimed to be having visions during the 1900's, are they? (In an earlier post I cited a 1903 vision and a 1905 vision, and I have no doubt that other specific visions are recorded from the 1900's.)
But Keith, should we be looking specifically for visions that have recorded faints and seizures?