Adventist Online

It's just such little courtesy is exhibited on this forum. There are many trollers who are permitted to run amuck (and I'm sure they will troll on this post), who actually demonstrate to the online world that Adventists aren't really clear thinking people, but are rather bigots, child-like in mentality, unable to engage intelligently, unsound in mind, logic and reason, and are just simply un-Christian. People like Lazarus, Jason M., Bart, and the like, seem to think that this is their realm and fortress, guardians of orthodoxy, and can only abuse, mindlessly misrepresent others, accuse others, name-call, attempt to attack and hurt others, and do all the things that Jesus clearly has never felt Himself needing to do. And yet they seem to be the main ones responding to all discussions, despite breaking the forum's rules, and their bigotry is simply tolerated. Is this the picture AdventistOnline wants to put out to the world? What happened to ever being a light to the world that Jesus Himself said we should be? What ever happened to proving all things (1 Th. 5.21) rather than being staunchly entrenched in Adventist tradition? Isn't that what Adventists originally rebuked other denominations for? What ever happened to love your neighbour as yourself? As time approaches its end, shouldn't a different picture of Adventists be put out there? Will this be the only legacy of Adventists presented to God and the world? 

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Amen, God is Good.

Tom,

In my Adult Sabbath school class I asked the members the question, " what is the central teaching of the Seventh-day Adventist church?" I got seven different answers.

1.Seventh day Sabbath.

2.Second coming of Christ.

3.We don't eat meat.

4.we don't wear jewelry, or make up.

5.we don't take part in worldly entertainment.

6.we don't smoke, drink, or do drugs.

7.evangelize others into the Adventist church. Hold meetings telling people about the Catholic church.

  Then a pastor who was attending my class said," what about Jesus Christ as our personal Savior, who died for the forgiveness of sin. That is the central teaching of the seventh-day Adventist church."

I agree with that pastor. With out the cross all those others have no meaning .  I really hope those who said 3 - 7 were not being serious . That would really be sad if they were .

Roland,

Unfortunately they were all serious. We discussed it at length  during the class, each one said  that their first thought was, " what makes me an Adventist verses other religions?"

I have often asked my non-Adventist Patients if the knew what Seventh-day Adventist believe.

The most common answer was, " they don't eat meat." they go to church on Saturday.others would say they don't smoke or drink, dance or play cards or they have a great medical work. They don't wear jewelry or makeup.

Explaining to them that these are in fact traditions of the church, but the central teaching is Christ Jesus and Him crucified that we might have eternal life, often came as a surprise.

My feeling is we need to tell the world the good news of salvation first, then the traditions can follow.

Unfortunately peoples understanding of Adventist is often the reverse.

 Keith 

It is nice to meet a fellow Adventist longing  to focus on the gospel . That makes me happy

I think the gospel is kind like driving. Many Adventist tend focus on the laws of the road and not  on the other drivers . Sometimes even when the law says it is our right of way . We need to yield or there may be an accident . You never know what emergency that caused the other one to break the law.  When we focus on the relationship with others we see their need. Law focused people cannot truly spread the gospel.  The cross gives us our relationship with others. We can see their needs the Holy Spirit opens our eyes.

Have read E.J. Waggoners book The Everlasting Covenant . It is probably my favorite book that is the bible I have ever read . It kind opens your eyes to flow of the gospel though out the bible .  If Adventist don't live the gospel how could anyone understand  

 Are we beginning to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, like some people, letters of recommendation to you or from you? You yourselves are our letter, written on our hearts, known and read by everyone. You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

Such confidence we have through Christ before God. Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God. 6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Roland I kind to focus on the gospel too. The rank and file Adventist is too busy focusing on their version of the SOP.

I  don't read them much. I like them but I don't use them for my beliefs.

I prefer to read the original languages and the authors culture and true intent

Keith that Pastor needs to get this message circulated because most of our brethren are off message.

Leon, 

You hit the nail absolutely right on the head. That is exactly the point. Absolutely the point. This gospel that many want to say Adventism has, has not got through to even much of the leadership on the ground. And that in my view has produced more fanaticism and entrenched views among the masses.

Dear Keith,

Well, I would hope this is true. But I think the worthy posts that you have put forward that tried to counteract the fanatics that I've mentioned, testify to the fact that there is something else inherent within Adventism that aids producing those kind of entrenched fanatical views. I speak from my own experience of being one of those 'guardians of orthodoxy' myself, albeit the closet-kind (I was at that time not so confident to articulate my views well against what I viewed at the time were so-called liberals, but I was comfortable passionately discussing with like-minded orthodox guardians). 

But while I do admire what that pastor said, when it comes to the fine-detail, which includes things like obedience to law, investigative judgment, the recognition and obedience to the Spirit of Prophecy, SAbbath as a sign of the remnant, the papacy as the antichrist, you'll quickly find that the salvation that many orthodox holders have is dependent on obedience or perfect-living. I know this of myself in the past, and my two other brothers who are currently way down that road. 

All these things are inherently part of the fundamental fabric of Adventism. It is not primarily founded on Jesus Christ as our personal savior but is only part of it (although, in truth it was only really discovered in 1888 and still it wasn't fully accepted), but is overshadowed or even veiled by these other fundamentals of Adventism which somehow create part of the salvation-qualification if you like.

And that's why there is such a problem because it generates fanatics, bigotry, but because Adventism in part has Jesus, it has people who hold on to Him too. But that is testament on the system itself being a confused system and self-contradictory system. Take for instance the Fundamental on the Spirit of Prophecy. We are supposed to let the Bible speak for itself, yet this fundamental says that Ellen White's interpretation is the ultimate interpretation. And what's even more confusing is that she says let the Bible speak for itself and to disregard her if she speaks against it, but when others disagreed with her, she demands their obedience to what has been revealed to her. 

So while there are these inherent systematic contradictions and fundamentals of salvation based on perfect-living, the fanaticism within Adventism will always remain. And that's why I believe it is time to get back to basics and just start from the beginning about what the Bible actually says, rather than trying to interpret it within the Adventist framework or through the Adventist lens.

Thomas,

Doubting doesn't strike me as a good name for you. Rather than doubting you seem to have a very positive belief in Jesus.

Those of us brought up in Adventism inherited a lot of guilt. Fanaticism and guilt run hand in hand.

Thank you for your encouragement.

Keith,

Thank you. You make a good point. I guess the reason I put the name is I modelled it on Doubting Thomas in the Bible, because after following blindly for so many years, I started to ask questions, and wanted to follow the actual evidence, and came to believe in Jesus' true salvation, just as Thomas did when he saw the evidence of Jesus' hands. Not everyone does it that way, I admit. But that was how it happened for me, and so that's why I used the name.

I think you're right about fanaticism and guilt run hand in hand, since that's how I was. The more guilty I was the more fanatic and condemming I got. And sadly, its the same for two of my own brothers who i grew up with, who I pray for and am working with.

Thank you also for your encouragement.

God's blessings to you

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