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a. 144,000 is Literal (as in)

b. 144,000 is Symbolical, but it is different from Great Multitude

c. 144,000 is Symbolical, and part of the Great Multitude

d. 144, 000 is the Symbolical number of the Great Multitude

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It is not a big difference! Both believe that the great multitude is the save of all ages, and the 144.000 is in number!

 

James White was the teacher of Uriah Smith.

Keep also in mind Ronald, in vision she saw the traveling of God people to the Holy City. She saw only 144.000 living saints traveling to the Holy City. She did not saw a great multitude with the 144.000.

 

Keep the good work!!!

dear fellow  believers

according to the quote below who gets sealed, how many, from where,and when does it take place before, during, or after the 144,000 are sealed?

Very precious to God is His work in the earth. Christ and heavenly angels are watching it every moment. As we draw near to the coming of Christ, more and still more of missionary work will engage our efforts. The message of the renewing power of God's grace will be carried to every country and clime, until the truth shall belt the world. Of the number of them that shall be sealed will be those who have come from every nation and kindred and tongue and people. From every country will be gathered men and women who will stand before the throne of God and before the Lamb, crying, "Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb." Revelation 7:10. But before this work can be accomplished, we must experience here in our own country the work of the Holy Spirit upon our hearts. {CT 532.1}

    EGW: "From the harvest fields the first heads of ripened grain were gathered, and when the people went up to Jerusalem to the Passover, the sheaf of first fruits was waved as a thank offering before the Lord. Not until this was presented could the sickle be put to the grain, and it be gathered into sheaves. The sheaf dedicated to God represented the harvest. So Christ the first fruits represented the great spiritual harvest to be gathered for the kingdom of God. His resurrection is the type and pledge of the resurrection of all the righteous dead." DA p.786 

     Wether it's the first fruits of the grain, the first fruits of the righteous dead, or the first fruits of the righteous living.. "The sheaf of [first fruits] dedicated to GOD represents the harvest." They all point to a bigger amount.. If the the first fruits of the dead point to the righteous dead in Christ that will rise when Jesus comes. So it must be the same with the First fruits of living saints, they point to a GM of living saints when Jesus comes.

   Bless!    

  P.S. I will be happy to discuss this more with you and others, Imma bout to catch a flight tomorrow, so I have to get my things pack & ready.. So I link back up with y'all in a day or so... Peace & Love!!

    

  

   Hmmm... lol.. Brother Ronald, I have to admit, I had to read this about 10 times... I'm not the smartest man in the world.. but let me see if I'm understanding you right..

    Your saying I made a "mistake", and you would like me to "Remove" the term "first" fruits from the 144,000?

   If so,  Umm.... No! lol... with all due respect, you act like that's something I've come up with on my own, or choose to do of my own will... Maybe I'm missing something or misunderstanding what your saying. That's gotta be it...

   Again, if I'm not misunderstanding what your are saying, then this is why I choose to associate "First" fruits with the 144,000.

   Rev. 14 :And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

    4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

    The Bible tells me so...

  Ronald: "For example, Jesus is the "first born" from the dead, yet we all know that, chronologically, Moses was raised sooner."

    All I know is the Bible tells me,

 1 Corinth. 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

          22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

          23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

    Moses is a great man, but there's 'nobody greater'(love that song)  that walk this earth than Jesus... I understand what your saying, your saying Moses was the first person to rise from the dead, so he's really the first born/fruits from the dead.

  But as you and I know, everything starts and ends with Jesus, so if the Bible says Jesus is the first fruits... then Imma stick with "Thus sayth the Lord"      

   With that being said, lets go to EGW..

  EGW: "From the harvest fields the first heads of ripened grain were gathered, and when the people went up to Jerusalem to the Passover, the sheaf of first fruits was waved as a thank offering before the Lord. Not until this was presented could the sickle be put to the grain, and it be gathered into sheaves. The sheaf dedicated to God represented the harvest. So Christ the first fruits represented the great spiritual harvest to be gathered for the kingdom of God. His resurrection is the type and pledge of the resurrection of all the righteous dead." DA p.786 

  

    EGW/SOP says ,"So Christ the first fruits represented the great spiritual harvest to be gathered for the kingdom of God. His resurrection is the type and pledge of the resurrection of all the righteous dead."

    First fruits of those who rose from dead represents a great spiritual harvest, which are those who will rise when Jesus comes. That's a fact.. 

   EGW: "..., the sheaf of first fruits was waved as a thank offering before the Lord."   " The sheaf [First fruits] dedicated to God represented the harvest"

 

   So now when we comes to the 144,000, the first fruits... You would like me to believe the type has changed?  That's strange...  The sheaf of first fruits of the living(144,000), represents the harvest (GM) of the living. The type is pointed out in the Agriculture system,  there were first fruits of grain presented to GOD and that represented the harvest. 

 

     Peace!

RG you are correct in your reasoning that the Rev  7 is dealing with living saints.   But is it not strange that John heard 144k living saints but saw GM dead saints?  Rev 7 is about those who are sealed to go through the time of trouble so why is John seeing people who did no through the time of trouble?

The first fruits are not leaders because the 144,000 are not only men they are the living saints when Jesus comes men, women and children. They are the ones who will reach perfection.

I believe I should be the one to say that your answer is the one that should be called reasoning....simply because you are using the Bible to support your own belief...

The real way of interpretation, is to allow the Bible to speak from itself...using the right way of Interpretation...considering its historical context and literary context...and these ways are to be applied as well on the Spirit of Prophecy...so that we will no be mislead...

and that is what I did when I interpret your quotation...

one of the reasons why I am inclined to believed that 144,000 is the symbolical number of the great multitude, aside from my readings and application of Principles in Biblical Interpretation, is because it is the stand of our church...Seventh-day Adventist Church...

you can share your thoughts, but I hope that to those who will read your posts will not be satisfied on the things that you have and will discuss, but rather will search more...and search and weigh, which is more Biblical...

God bless!

    Hi Leslie,

  Never said the 144,000 was just men... nope, never did... I do believe they are the leaders of the Church. 

What Reasoning wont you to believe is, if you have first you must have second. Then he will toll that the 144.000 if the first fruid and the great multitude is the second friut. False teaching sis!

 

When Ellen White has saw the 144.000 she did not saw a great mutitude living rigtheuos people going to heaven withr the 144.000! kept that in mind! sis.

Here we go again!

 

My God bless ypou!!!!

Ok Let us analyse Revelation 7 again and break it down slowly so that we all can understand with the Holy Spirit.

The first thing we have to bear in mind is that the Bible was not written in chronological order so even if you are reading a particular chapter it does not mean that it came in the order that it is recorded.

Re 7:2
And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea

So this verse is speaking about an angel having the seal of God.

Re 7:3
Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

He is venturing to seal the people of God. These people is in the earth 

Re 7:4
And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

John heard the number of them that were sealed. So these verses simply speaks about the sealing and how much will be sealed. Now remember John is in vision here seeing these things.

So, 144,000 will be sealed this is a fact.

Re 7:9
After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

After this he speaking of another vision he is seeing now he saw a great multitude which no man can number standing before the throne of God. 

So we have the 144,000 on the earth who will be sealed

And the great multitude standing before the throne of God

Re 7:14
And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

The great multitude and the 144,000 have all come out of the great tribulation because the 144,000 has come out of the time of trouble since has never was since there was a nation and the great multitude who died since adam time have also come out of a great tribulation remember many were persecuted and if you do not have a trial then how can you overcome by the blood of the Lamb. They have also gotten the victory over sin.

Now you cannot say the 144,000 is the great multitude because it is a number that is recorded.

The great multitude is an amount with no fix number.

For those who believe that the great multitude is the people who the 144,000 will bring in where will these people be when the plagues starts to fall? Because when the Sunday passes probation closes for all. The seven last plagues will start to fall.

Then what will you call the people who died from Adam up till Jesus comes? And where in John's vision did he mentioned them? 

Only two sets of people was mentioned the 144,000 and the Great Multitude.

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