Adventist Online

Hows everybody? I hope well. Was thinking of what might make for good, POSITIVE, discussion and thought about this :) Its also a good opportunity to get back to our Bibles to study up on the things that we are supposed to be known for and good at. So, here it is. 

 

What are some of the more interesting Bible prophecies you've read about and know to be fulfilled? I hope I worded that right lol. 

 

We all know (or at least should know) the prophecies of Daniel 2, and 7. Those would be good to share too, if any would like to, but I'm also looking at ones outside of those more common examples. And there is nothing wrong with those common examples either, they're actually really important, but jus seeing what more we can find after those :) 

 

The Bible is the best, most accurate Book out there. Interested to see what we can find :) 

Views: 28

Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

MsMS

 

Most of these questions you raised, I have already answered, however, you may not have read them yet.  There is one danger that I see. 

 

You are wanting to read everything with Elder Short's glasses on.  This will only be a hinderance to your advancing in truth.  A practice that I'm sure, from what I know of Elders Wieland and Short, they would be appaled at.  If we refuse to accept any truth because some historical figure did not accept it or address it, then we are making an idol of that person.  God is our guide, not Wieland, Short, Jones, Waggoner, Martin Luther, or any other human being.  Even Ellen White's writtings are to be tested by the Bible, not the other way around. 

 

Another point that I have not covered elsewhere is this.  The pronouns of "he" and "him" and even the noun of: "man" can have multiple meanings.  Also, they are not gender exclusive (check your dictionary.)  Also in the Bible.  The Greek word: "anthropos" is normally translated "man," i.e. a male.  But it is also translated as: "a human being" of either gender.  Only the context determines if there is a gender value involved. 

 

So, whether you are dealing with Hebrew, English or Greek, it makes no difference.  You cannot determine that the person being referred to is a man or woman by such pronouns.  Only if it is definatly in the female gender is it clear that it is a female, not a male.

 

Maranatha :)
Ray

 

 

 

 

MsMS

 

You posted:

 

“But you are very adamantly relating your stand to women's ordination and I have yet to see how this is more worthy of a "death sentence" that the gross sexual immorality and other sins of worshipping the gods of Baal, etc.”

Yes, and with the help of God I will not change.  For to leave a position that has as much support in God’s word as this one, to accept an invention of Satan, would cost me my eternal life, as it will all others who make the wrong choice, as did Jeroboam, Ahab and Israel.  By the strength of God, I intend to continue to be as adamant about not following the “Sin of Jeroboam” just as I intend to be as adamant about not follow the another sin, that of worshipping on the first day of the week instead of God’s holy day.  The two go hand in hand.  The way a person goes on one will be the way they choose to go on the other, as they are built on the same principles.


“Then you go on to state that "even if the entire SDA church allowed women to be ordained, I would not go along with it. For I know what the Bible says and I know the results of such a practice."

I neither go along with it, the difference is I don't feel it is anymore worthy of a "death sentence" than evolution which denies the Creator God nor the teaching of a pre-Adamic nature of Christ which denies the rationale of the death of Jesus because He had to take the "likeness of sinful man" in order to save sinful man. And that is a very deep subject but I am just saying that I do not see WO any more serious than other things our church is divided on.”

God will not destroy a person for a failure to understand.  The destruction comes when a person can know the truth and refuses to know it.  This is the high handed rebellion that is being practiced in accepting the “Sin of Jeroboam,” or any other deviation from God’s instructions BECAUSE we want to do something different.

 

Don’t fall into the trap of comparing the enormity of various sins.  This is a trick of Satan to take our eyes off of the real issue.  The issue has never been: “is one sin worse than another.”  All sin is rebellion against God and all sin, great or small, will end in death.  Considering one sin as not as bad as another, still leaves one in sin and the result of any sin is death.

 

In electricity, you will see little extension chords like on a lamp.  Or if you look on your printer, etc., you may see and even smaller power cord coming into your printer, et. al. 

 

On the other hand, if you look up overhead, you will see a very substantial wire that is carrying electricity to your community.  However, both of them have a commonality.  If they are cut, the electricity stops flowing.  So too with sin.  It makes no difference if it is a little tinny wire or a big heavy wire, if either of them is cut, it means death.  One is just as important at the other.


“You then decry the "weak-kneed objections some present (maybe me :) but so far I have not seen any arguments from you that convince me. Not of the objection to WO but to your, what I consider extreme stance on it. However, I look forward to reading your information that you uploaded. That may be helpful to me to see where you are really coming from but as I stated, I just now saw your reply to me so I haven't read it as yet but I will tomorrow.”

The “weak kneed objections” are those like the argument that Pheobe was a minister of the gospel, or that because in the warning that God gave to Jeroboam, recorded in 1 Kings 12, was different then the high handed rebellious response in the next chapter, that it was different.  Or the contention that the sin of ordaining anyone who would is not referring to ordaining anyone who would.  The lack of basic logic in these types of arguments is mind boggling.  These are just excuses and nothing more.

 

God has extended this invitation:

 "Come now, let us reason together, says the Lord:”  Isaiah 1:18 (ESV) 

God did not say:  Come and see if you can dazzle me with your excuses.”

“Nor did God say: “Come now and see if you can change my mind on something I have spoken.” 

Nor did God say: “Come and see how badly you can twist what I have said.” 

 No, the operative word here is: “reason.”  This involves the highest centers of our mind.  This involves the frontal lobes, which is only given to humans.  This involves our free moral agency.  To prostitute this offer from God to sit down and be taught by God with the “weak kneed” arguments that are too often seen, is ridiculous and while God is long suffering, there are some things He will not listen to.

 

When we are honestly seeking information, God will respond to that in a heartbeat.  But, we must be honest in seeking that information, not just playing games.  Remember, the Holy Spirit is searching our hearts to see if we are being honest with ourselves and God, or are we just playing word games?  Playing word games is better left for a Saturday night play time, not for Bible study.

 

Maranatha :)
Ray

MsMS

You wrote:

 

“I would like to point out that you have dismissed also on occasion the 1888 message that Jones & Waggoner brought which Ellen White called the "beginning of the latter rain and loud cry" as being "past" and that we need to get on to more important present truth. Now Ellen White was very specific that there is a death sentence on anyone who rejects this message and she wrote more on it than on any other subject. She refers to it all through her writings after that time and the Conflict Series was influenced very much by it. Also Testimonies to Ministers and all Selected Messages, etc. To me, this neglect and misunderstanding of that message will yet be rectified by those who will receive the full latter rain but the latter rain will not be understood by those who do not understand and appreciate it's beginning."

 

You are not understanding the point I was trying to communicate.  In no way do I reject the message of righteousness by faith that Jones and Waggoner, or Martin Luther, or Morris Venden have presented.  They are all the same and I support them. 

 

However, there is a tendency to attempt to fight yesterday’s battles, which diverts our attention from the battles of today.  It is not the message that I do not accept, it is the argument as to whether the church accepted it back then or not.  This is the battle that I object to refighting.  We can do nothing at all about whether the church back then accepted the “most precious message” or not.  Some did, others did not.  However, we need to decide what we are going to do and move on. 

 

The Holy Spirit was sent to “LEAD” us into all truth.  We cannot be led if we are not following.  Satan tempts us to try to justify the wrongs of yesterday, while we, in the process, are out of the battle of the issues of today.  When we attempt to refight the battles of yesteryear, whether it be standing up for Jones and Waggoner, Weiland and Short, or Charles Westly, we are not following where the Holy Spirit is leading today.  This is the part I objected to back then and now. 

 

Remember, hindsight is 20/20.  Had those who lived back then be alive today and could see things in hindsight, they would probably recognize where they made a mistake and correct it.  So, to condemn the choices they made, with the information they had, by the information that we have today, is not really being fair to them.  Do you see what I am trying to present?  My objections were never to the message, that I believe.  It is being distracted by yesterday’s failures so that we cannot realize that we are making the same mistakes today.  That is and was my burden.

 

Maranatha :)

Ray

MsMS

 

You posted:


"Hope your in a good mood when you read this. :) You say, "I know of no other practice, mentioned in the Bible, where God has either outright stated, or otherwise indicated that a death sentence is connected with it's practice. the reason it is not more widely seen is that we do not understand the terminology. Just how long before I mentioned it did you realize that the "Sin of Jeroboam" was ordaining anyone who will and that God labeled it a sin?"

"As of this moment, my friend, I do not see where that ordaining, if it did include women, was the Sin of Jeroboam. Maybe I missed it but I read it as ordaining any "men" who will.”

This is what I mean about a “weak kneed” argument.  Just read the text.  (I hope that you are in a good mood when you read this. ROFL)  Here is the text.

    “After this thing Jeroboam did not turn from his evil way, but made priests for the high places again from among all the people. Any who would, he ordained to be priests of the high places.  [34] And this thing became sin to the house of Jeroboam, so as to cut it off and to destroy it from the face of the earth.” 1 Kings 13:33-34 (ESV) 

The text reads: “Any who would,”  Just consider for a moment if this passage read:

 

“Any who would can immediately come to heaven with me.” 

 

Would you be questioning whether that included women?  Now be honest now. 

 

No, the text is very clear, even in the Hebrew.  Anyone who would was being ordained.  Men and women, possibly even children, it would not surprise me, for that is also included in “Any.”  In fact, we are seeing that come in more and more today too.  It seems like the ones people want to listen to the most are those who have no more information then they do. 

 

When we go to see a doctor or an attorney, etc., we check their credentials as to how extensive their education is and their track record.  But, when dealing with a theologian, suddenly we change gears.  IF, and I said IF, they agree with us, then we tout their degrees.  On the other hand, if they do not agree, we ignore their degrees, education and time spent in research.  We seek a higher level of knowledge in those who deal with our money and our health, than we do with the most important thing in life, our soul’s salvation.

 

We will go to an investor who has all kinds of moral problems, if he can make money for us.  But, if a minister makes a mistake, he is looked down on for eternity, at least by those who will be lost.  We are to check the message, not attempt to find a fault in the messenger.  We have an example of this in Moses.  When the people did not like the message from God that Moses was bringing to them, they started accusing him of marrying a black woman.  What has that to do with anything?  It does point out that people will find any and every excuse possible to avoid truth, even such a “weak kneed” argument.

 

Maranatha :)

Ray

MsMS

 

You posted:

“Just because Jezebel had made "priestesses" of women does not automatically mean they were women that they made as God's priests. However, if I misread and this was done, I still do not see at all where the emphasis was on this but I do see where worshipping the gods of Baal and the terrible sexual immorality that Jezebel brought in was what caused the "death sentence".” 

A seemingly good argument, but it has a problem.  What Jezebel was doing was replacing God’s priest with heathen priestesses.  You reminded me a while back that there were 7,000 who had not bowed the knee to Baal.  This was when I quoted what Ellen White wrote in that not one in that vast crowd would take a stand for God.  Can you see the problem already? 

 

The Elijah message on Mt. Carmel was to return to God’s plan which did not include the “sin of Jeroboam.”  OR the sins of Ahab.  OR the sins of Jezebel.  God’s plan was not to be replaced in any way, shape or form.  You are looking at the minor details, while you should be looking at the bigger picture.  Majoring in minors.  This is why I often say: “Show me any passage in the Bible where God has given the church at any time in its history the authorization to ordain women or men who do not qualify, and the discussion if over.

 

All of the arguments from circumstances can be trotted out endlessly.  But, they all fail when there is no authorization from God to ordain anyone who wants to be a spiritual leader, no matter how strong is the “call” they feel. 

 

When I was being urged to go into the ministry, something I did not want to do, my feelings were going one way, while God’s call was going another way.  Finally, I had to give up on how I felt, i.e. not wanting to go into the ministry, and submit to God’s overwhelming call for me to go into the ministry.  How I felt about it meant nothing, IF, and I said IF, I wanted to be in God’s will. 

 

God will never call anyone to any position that He has placed a death sentence on.  So, any “call” that any woman feels to the ordained ministry is not from God but from Satan.  Therefore, it is sin and the wages of sin is death.  How much more plain can it be?

 

Maranatha :)

Ray

MsMS

 

You posted:

“One last point tonight. If this is so much more serious than other sins in the church, then why does not Ellen White speak to it specifically. The practice of female pastors with an emphasis on pastoral care of the sick, needy, etc. was endorsed by her. So it was not something that she was unaware of and it seems, since she spoke to the last generation until Jesus comes, that if it was as crucial as you say, she would have given at least one warning against it. God knew it was going to come, and He surely, it seems to me, would have made specific mention of the danger.”

 

Ellen White is not a theologian.  That was never her call.  Instead, she is a mouthpiece for the King, i.e. a prophet. 

 

Remember back to when the doctrines we subscribe to were being hammered out.  The brethren and Ellen would sit down around a kitchen table and take their Bibles out and search out a topic.  Ellen would not be able to understand until a conclusion was reached,  Then the Holy Spirit would give a message of acceptance or correction.  When humans have done their best to find truth, then the Holy Spirit will guide further on if there is more to know.  But, only when we have submitted our minds to the evidence that we can know, will He lead us on into all truth.  If something is not plain, we need to check our own hearts first to see if we are not dragging our feet in accepting that which we could know.

 

This issue was not well studied out in her day, so it would be expected that she would not pontificate on it.  However, her actions speak volumes.  She refused human ordination.  She never condones women being ordained to the position of elder or pastor.  What a person does speaks volumes.  Her actions were never in favor of this practice, as would be expected when one knows what it entails. 

 

Does this help?

 

Maranatha :)

Ray

MsMS

 

Why fight the obvious?  The problem with the Laodicean church is that they need the spiritual eyesalve that the faithful and true witness offers, for "they can not see what is wrong." 

 

If that same word: "Anyone," (any who would) was applied to a good promise.  Would women argue that it did not include women?  I hardly think so.  Your feminist biases are clouding your undersanding of basic English word meanings. 

 

"Anyone" or (any who would) is not gender charged.  It apples to "everyone."  The Hebrew word is:


chaphets, khaw-fates'; from Hebrew 2654 (chaphets); pleased with :- delight in, desire, favour, please, have pleasure, whosoever would, willing, wish.


 

There is no gender restrictions or flavor in this word at all.  It applies to men, women, children, any living breathing human being.  OK?

 

Maranatha :)
Ray

 

 

 

MsMS

 

Again, you make claims which are not supported with the facts.

 

You wrote:

"You are not only making it the "Sin of Jereboam" which you have by no means proven from the Bible and for sure not the SOP, because it is not there but you have since this reply related it to the usurping of the authority you say God orignally gave to Adam (which I have rebutted) to Eve when he ate of the fruit."

Your last contention, first.  You attempted to rebut, but did not succeed.  See my response.

 

Next you claim that this "Sin of Jeroboam" is not mentioned in Ellen White's writings.  Well, read on.

"The penalty that overtook the unfaithful messenger was a still further evidence of the truth of the prophecy uttered over the altar. If, after disobeying the word of the Lord, the prophet had been permitted to go on in safety, the king would have used this fact in an attempt to vindicate his own disobedience. In the rent altar, in the palsied arm, and in the terrible fate of the one who dared disobey an express command of Jehovah, Jeroboam should have discerned the swift displeasure of an offended God, and these judgments should have warned him not to persist in wrongdoing. But, far from repenting, Jeroboam "made again of the lowest of the people priests of the high places: whosoever would, he consecrated him, and he became one of the priests of the high places." Thus he not only sinned greatly himself, but "made Israel to sin;" and "this thing became sin unto the house of Jeroboam, even to cut it off, and to destroy it from off the face of the earth." Verses 33, 34; 14:16.  {PK 107.1}

     "The apostasy introduced during Jeroboam's reign became more and more marked, until finally it resulted in the utter ruin of the kingdom of Israel. Even before the death of Jeroboam, Ahijah, the aged prophet at Shiloh who many years before had predicted the elevation of Jeroboam to the throne, declared: "The Lord shall smite Israel, as a reed is shaken in the water, and He shall root up Israel out of this good land, which He gave to their fathers, and shall scatter them beyond the river, because they have made their groves, provoking the Lord to anger. And He shall give Israel up because of the sins of Jeroboam, who did sin, and who made Israel to sin." 1 Kings 14:15, 16.  {PK 107.3}  
     Yet the Lord did not give Israel up without first doing all that could be done to lead them back to their allegiance to Him. Through long, dark years when ruler after ruler stood up in bold defiance of Heaven and led Israel deeper and still deeper into idolatry, God sent message after message to His backslidden people. Through His prophets He gave them every opportunity to stay the tide of apostasy and to return to Him. During the years that were to follow the rending of the kingdom, Elijah and Elisha were to live and labor, and the tender appeals of Hosea and Amos and Obadiah were to be heard in the land. Never was the kingdom of Israel to be left without noble witnesses to the mighty power of God to save from sin. Even in the darkest hours some would remain true to their divine Ruler and in the midst of idolatry would live blameless in the sight of a holy God. These faithful ones were numbered among the goodly remnant through whom the eternal purpose of Jehovah was finally to be fulfilled.  {PK 108.1} 

 "From the time of Jeroboam's death to Elijah's appearance before Ahab the people of Israel suffered a steady spiritual decline. Ruled by men who did not fear Jehovah and who encouraged strange forms of worship, the larger number of the people rapidly lost sight of their duty to serve the living God and adopted many of the practices of idolatry.  {PK 109.1}  
     "Nadab, the son of Jeroboam, occupied the throne of Israel for only a few months. His career of evil was suddenly stopped by a conspiracy headed by Baasha, one of his generals, to gain control of the government. Nadab was slain, with all his kindred in the line of succession, "according unto the saying of the Lord, which He spake by His servant Ahijah the Shilonite: because of the sins of Jeroboam which he sinned, and which he made Israel sin." 1 Kings 15:29, 30."  {PK 109.2} 

So, Ellen White does not speak of the Sin of Jeroboam?  I did not write these quotations, they come from her writtings.

 

No matter what arguments you might want to present, the evidence still is that "any who would" is not gender related and that Ellen White indeed addresses the "sin of Jeroboam." 

 

Maranatha :)
Ray

 

 

 

 

 

MsMS

 

Ok, check out these texts.

    "Now Eli was very old, and he kept hearing all that his sons were doing to all Israel, and how they lay with the women who were serving at the entrance to the tent of meeting."  1 Samuel 2:22 (ESV) 

 

    "None of the daughters of Israel shall be a cult prostitute, and none of the sons of Israel shall be a cult prostitute."  Deut. 23:17 (ESV) 

The word translated as a "whore" KJV, or in this version a "cult prostitute" all come from the Hebrew word: Qedeshah, which is the feminine form of the root word: "quadesh."  The literal meaning of the word is: "Set aside for a holy purpose."  Here God is forbidding the setting aside, ordination, of any woman, specifically.  Also any male who does not qualify for the priesthood.

    "But I have this against you, that you tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess and is teaching and seducing my servants to practice sexual immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols."  Rev. 2:20 (ESV)  
 

Jezebel was most certainly a "prophetess," and was most certainly a female and most certainly brought the wrath of God on those who followed her. 

 

Now, you show me any passage in the Bible that proves that God has ever approved women to be ordained as priestesses.  God does not speak out of both sides of His mouth.  When He gave the priesthood to the males of His people, that is the way it is untill God declares a change, which has never happened in regards to women being ordained.  I'm waiting to see your text.

 

Maranatha :)
Ray

 

 


 

 

 


 

Jeremiah 30:3 (New King James Version)

3 For behold, the days are coming,’ says the LORD, ‘that I will bring back from captivity My people Israel and Judah,’ says the LORD. ‘And I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.’”

Psalm 105:8-15 (New King James Version)


 8 He remembers His covenant forever,
         The word which He commanded, for a thousand generations,
 9 The covenant which He made with Abraham,
         And His oath to Isaac,
 10 And confirmed it to Jacob for a statute,
         To Israel as an everlasting covenant,
 11 Saying, “To you I will give the land of Canaan
         As the allotment of your inheritance,”
 12 When they were few in number,
         Indeed very few, and strangers in it.
         
 13 When they went from one nation to another,
         From one kingdom to another people,
 14 He permitted no one to do them wrong;
         Yes, He rebuked kings for their sakes,
 15 Saying, “Do not touch My anointed ones,
         And do My prophets no harm.”

 

DESCENDANTS OF ABRAHAM'S SEED?


    Why does Saddam Hussein, the dictator of Iraq, want to drive the Jews out of the Holy Land?  Because the Jews say they are the true descendants of Abraham, and that the Holy Land belongs to them.  There are others, however, who are his descendants, and they, too, claim right to that land; but only God's Word can  identity the people from Abraham's seed who has exclusive right to the Holy Land.  And here is how to learn their identity:  Several thousand years ago God changed Abram's name to Abraham and promised to make him "a father of many nations" (Gen. 17:5), and that he would possess the land of Canaan (Gen. 15:18-21) through his seed; but he had no son.  After many years of waiting, his wife (Sarah) gave to him Hagar, her Egyptian handmaid (Gen. 16:3), to bear a child for her which was named Ishmael (Gen. 16:11).  Later, Sarah had a child named Isaac (Gen. 21:3) and asked Abraham to cast out Hagar and Ismael (Gen. 21:10), which he did.  They dwelt in the "wilderness of Paran" and Ishmael married an Egyptian girl (Gen. 21:21), and from his seed came many descendants.  And because Ishmael was the first born of Abraham by Hagar the Egyptian, and because he married an Egyptian girl, the Egyptians have always claimed, even to this day, that they are the only true Arabs who should possess the land of Canaan.  Then there is Abraham's nephew Lot (Gen. 12:5) and his two daughters, who escaped the burning of Sodom and Gomorrah (Gen. 19:24), and who had sons named "Moab" and "Ammon" (Gen. 19:37,38).  And to this day their descendants now living in the territory of Moab and Ammon on the east side of the river Jordan, whose ruler is king Hussein, also lay claim to the land of Canaan.

      But the Lord kept His promise to Abraham, and his wife Sarah gave birth to a son which they named Isaac (Gen. 21:2,3); and God said to Abraham "in Isaac shall thy seed be called" (Gen. 21:12).  This fact proves that all the descendants from Abraham's seed through his nephew Lot, being the Moabites and Ammonites of today, cannot be the true seed to inherit the Holy Land.   Nor can Abraham's descendants in Egypt through Ishmael be the true seed today; because the seed must come through Isaac!  And Isaac had two sons, Esau and Jacob; but Esau sold his birthright to Jacob, and Isaac blessed him.  But in spite of this fact, the descendants of Esau or Edom (Gen. 36:1) also claim to be the true seed.  Instead, the seed of Abraham came through Isaac and   Jacob and his twelve sons who became the twelve tribes of Israel.  This fact is proof that Jacob (Israel) was the true seed of Abraham, because He led them out of Egypt and drove all the other descendants of his seed, especially the Ishmaelites, the Moabites,  Ammonites,  Edomites, etc., from the Holy Land.

      In time, however, the children of Israel apostatized and God drove Israel (the ten tribes) from His Holy Land by Assyria, and they lost their racial identity.  He also put Judah (the two tribes) into captivity under Babylon, Medo-Persia, Grecia, and Rome.  And then the Messiah (Jesus) came to His people (Judah) to redeem them.  But they rejected and crucified Him, and about thirty-three hours later He was resurrected, there came from the cross two classes of people: (1) The literal identifiable Jews who rejected their Messiah.  (2) The Christian Jews who accepted their Messiah.  But the Christian Jews did two things which the literal Jews will not do: (1) The Christian Jews took the gospel to the Gentiles!  (2) The Christian Jews married them!  And during the time of the Christian era up until the latter days (almost 2,000 years, lacking 1-1/2 years) the Christian Jews lost their racial identity by marrying these Gentiles.  Thus, today we see the literal Jews, identified by their color of skin, facial features, etc., who have returned to their homeland since 1948, and the unidentifiable Christian Jews (who look like Gentiles).

     However, because the identifiable Jews rejected their Messiah (Jesus), the Lord rejected them and chose the Christian Jews as His people!   Thus, the promises in the Bible to Judah and Israel in the latter days does not apply to them, but to the Christian Jews.  And where are they?  In one of the Christian churches that God recognizes as His church.  And who are they?  Only God knows the generations of these Christian Jews who look like Gentiles that decended from the seed of Abraham; as He knows Jesus' generation back to David (Mt. 1:1-17), to Abraham, and to Adam (Lk. 3:23-38).   In this genological record (Ps. 87:4-6) He knows every Christian Jew who married Gentiles and lost their racial identity, and who descended down to our day in His church.

 

Alexander

 

You asked:

"I understand that Women's Ordination and the 1888 message are very important. I can see where they have a prophetic influence. But, haven't we covered those well enough?"

It is my desire to give an emphatic "YES" to that question. 

 

However, there is another problem.  While the small group of us in this discussion may feel so because we have come to an agreement.  There are thousands, yes, millions who do not understood this.  So, it may have to come up again and again as others who have not  understood this ask these questions too.  I could say: "Well, I understand it, what is wrong with the rest of you all?"  LOL  But I won't. LOL  Because, just as the Holy Spirit leads us into a truth, it then becomes our responsibility to share that truth with others. 

 

However, I do agree that for our small group, the questions seem to have been resolved, therefore to continue to debate it would be redundant.

 

Maranatha :)
Ray

 

 

 

The Great Commission

     After the death of Christ the disciples were well-nigh overcome by discouragement. Their Master had been rejected, condemned, and crucified. The priests and rulers had declared scornfully, "He saved others; Himself He cannot save. If He be the King of Israel, let Him now come down from the cross, and we will believe Him." Matthew 27:42. The sun of the disciples' hope had set, and night settled down upon their hearts. Often they repeated the words, "We trusted that it had been He which should have redeemed Israel." Luke 24:21. Lonely and sick at heart, they remembered His words, "If they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry?" Luke 23:31.  {AA 25.1} 
     Jesus had several times attempted to open the future to His disciples, but they had not cared to think about what He said. Because of this His death had come to them as a surprise; and afterward, as they reviewed the past and saw the result of their unbelief, they were filled with sorrow.
                                                                           26
When Christ was crucified, they did not believe that He would rise. He had stated plainly that He was to rise on the third day, but they were perplexed to know what He meant. This lack of comprehension left them at the time of His death in utter hopelessness. They were bitterly disappointed. Their faith did not penetrate beyond the shadow that Satan had cast athwart their horizon. All seemed vague and mysterious to them. If they had believed the Saviour's words, how much sorrow they might have been spared!  {AA 25.2} 
     Crushed by despondency, grief, and despair, the disciples met together in the upper chamber, and closed and fastened the doors, fearing that the fate of their beloved Teacher might be theirs. It was here that the Saviour, after His resurrection, appeared to them.  {AA 26.1} 
     For forty days Christ remained on the earth, preparing the disciples for the work before them and explaining that which heretofore they had been unable to comprehend. He spoke of the prophecies concerning His advent, His rejection by the Jews, and His death, showing that every specification of these prophecies had been fulfilled. He told them that they were to regard this fulfillment of prophecy as an assurance of the power that would attend them in their future labors. "Then opened He their understanding," we read, "that they might understand the Scriptures, and said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem."
                                                                           27
And He added, "Ye are witnesses of these things." Luke 24:45-48.  {AA 26.2} 
     During these days that Christ spent with His disciples, they gained a new experience. As they heard their beloved Master explaining the Scriptures in the light of all that had happened, their faith in Him was fully established. They reached the place where they could say, "I know whom I have believed." 2 Timothy 1:12. They began to realize the nature and extent of their work, to see that they were to proclaim to the world the truths entrusted to them. The events of Christ's life, His death and resurrection, the prophecies pointing to these events, the mysteries of the plan of salvation, the power of Jesus for the remission of sins--to all these things they had been witnesses, and they were to make them known to the world. They were to proclaim the gospel of peace and salvation through repentance and the power of the Saviour.  {AA 27.1} 
     Before ascending to heaven, Christ gave His disciples their commission. He told them that they were to be the executors of the will in which He bequeathed to the world the treasures of eternal life. You have been witnesses of My life of sacrifice in behalf of the world, He said to them. You have seen My labors for Israel. And although My people would not come to Me that they might have life, although priests and rulers have done unto Me as they listed, although they have rejected Me, they shall have still another opportunity of accepting the Son of God. You have seen that all who come to Me confessing their sins, I freely receive.
                                                                           28
Him that cometh to Me I will in no wise cast out. To you, My disciples, I commit this message of mercy. It is to be given to both Jews and Gentiles--to Israel, first, and then to all nations, tongues, and peoples. All who believe are to be gathered into one church.  {AA 27.2} 
     The gospel commission is the great missionary charter of Christ's kingdom. The disciples were to work earnestly for souls, giving to all the invitation of mercy. They were not to wait for the people to come to them; they were to go to the people with their message.  {AA 28.1} 
     The disciples were to carry their work forward in Christ's name. Their every word and act was to fasten attention on His name, as possessing that vital power by which sinners may be saved. Their faith was to center in Him who is the source of mercy and power. In His name they were to present their petitions to the Father, and they would receive answer. They were to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Christ's name was to be their watchword, their badge of distinction, their bond of union, the authority for their course of action, and the source of their success. Nothing was to be recognized in His kingdom that did not bear His name and superscription.  {AA 28.2} 
     When Christ said to the disciples, Go forth in My name to gather into the church all who believe, He plainly set before them the necessity of maintaining simplicity. The less ostentation and show, the greater would be their influence for good. The disciples were to speak with the same simplicity with which Christ had spoken. They were to
                                                                           29
impress upon their hearers the lessons He had taught them.  {AA 28.3} 
     Christ did not tell His disciples that their work would be easy. He showed them the vast confederacy of evil arrayed against them. They would have to fight "against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." Ephesians 6:12. But they would not be left to fight alone. He assured them that He would be with them; and that if they would go forth in faith, they should move under the shield of Omnipotence. He bade them be brave and strong; for One mightier than angels would be in their ranks--the General of the armies of heaven. He made full provision for the prosecution of their work and took upon Himself the responsibility of its success. So long as they obeyed His word, and worked in connection with Him, they could not fail. Go to all nations, He bade them. Go to the farthest part of the habitable globe and be assured that My presence will be with you even there. Labor in faith and confidence; for the time will never come when I will forsake you. I will be with you always, helping you to perform your duty, guiding, comforting, sanctifying, sustaining you, giving you success in speaking words that shall draw the attention of others to heaven.  {AA 29.1} 
     Christ's sacrifice in behalf of man was full and complete. The condition of the atonement had been fulfilled. The work for which He had come to this world had been accomplished. He had won the kingdom. He had wrested it from Satan and had become heir of all things. He was on His way
                                                                           30
to the throne of God, to be honored by the heavenly host. Clothed with boundless authority, He gave His disciples their commission, "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end." Matthew 28:19, 20.  {AA 29.2} 
     Just before leaving His disciples, Christ once more plainly stated the nature of His kingdom. He recalled to their remembrance things He had previously told them regarding it. He declared that it was not His purpose to establish in this world a temporal kingdom. He was not appointed to reign as an earthly monarch on David's throne. When the disciples asked Him, "Lord, wilt Thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?" He answered, "It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in His own power." Acts 1:6, 7. It was not necessary for them to see farther into the future than the revelations He had made enabled them to see. Their work was to proclaim the gospel message.  {AA 30.1} 
     Christ's visible presence was about to be withdrawn from the disciples, but a new endowment of power was to be theirs. The Holy Spirit was to be given them in its fullness, sealing them for their work. "Behold," the Saviour said, "I send the promise of My Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high." Luke 24:49. "For John truly baptized with
                                                                           31
water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence." "Ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto Me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth." Acts 1:5, 8.  {AA 30.2} 
     The Saviour knew that no argument, however logical, would melt hard hearts or break through the crust of worldliness and selfishness. He knew that His disciples must receive the heavenly endowment; that the gospel would be effective only as it was proclaimed by hearts made warm and lips made eloquent by a living knowledge of Him who is the way, the truth, and the life. The work committed to the disciples would require great efficiency; for the tide of evil ran deep and strong against them. A vigilant, determined leader was in command of the forces of darkness, and the followers of Christ could battle for the right only through the help that God, by His Spirit, would give them.  {AA 31.1} 
     Christ told His disciples that they were to begin their work at Jerusalem. That city had been the scene of His amazing sacrifice for the human race. There, clad in the garb of humanity, He had walked and talked with men, and few had discerned how near heaven came to earth. There He had been condemned and crucified. In Jerusalem were many who secretly believed Jesus of Nazareth to be the Messiah, and many who had been deceived by priests and rulers. To these the gospel must be proclaimed. They were to be called to repentance. The wonderful truth that
                                                                           32
through Christ alone could remission of sins be obtained, was to be made plain. And it was while all Jerusalem was stirred by the thrilling events of the past few weeks, that the preaching of the disciples would make the deepest impression.  {AA 31.2} 
     During His ministry, Jesus had kept constantly before the disciples the fact that they were to be one with Him in His work for the recovery of the world from the slavery of sin. When He sent forth the Twelve and afterward the Seventy, to proclaim the kingdom of God, He was teaching them their duty to impart to others what He had made known to them. In all His work He was training them for individual labor, to be extended as their numbers increased, and eventually to reach to the uttermost parts of the earth. The last lesson He gave His followers was that they held in trust for the world the glad tidings of salvation.  {AA 32.1} 
     When the time came for Christ to ascend to His Father, He led the disciples out as far as Bethany. Here He paused, and they gathered about Him. With hands outstretched in blessing, as if in assurance of His protecting care, He slowly ascended from among them. "It came to pass, while He blessed them, He was parted from them, and carried up into heaven." Luke 24:51.  {AA 32.2} 
     While the disciples were gazing upward to catch the last glimpse of their ascending Lord, He was received into the rejoicing ranks of heavenly angels. As these angels escorted Him to the courts above, they sang in triumph, "Sing unto God, ye kingdoms of the earth; O sing praises
                                                                           33
unto the Lord, to Him that rideth upon the heavens of heavens. . . . Ascribe ye strength unto God: His excellency is over Israel, and His strength is in the heavens." Psalm 68:32-34, margin.  {AA 32.3}
     The disciples were still looking earnestly toward heaven when, "behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen Him go into heaven." Acts 1:10, 11.  {AA 33.1} 
     The promise of Christ's second coming was ever to be kept fresh in the minds of His disciples. The same Jesus whom they had seen ascending into heaven, would come again, to take to Himself those who here below give themselves to His service. The same voice that had said to them, "Lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end," would bid them welcome to His presence in the heavenly kingdom.  {AA 33.2} 
     As in the typical service the high priest laid aside his pontifical robes and officiated in the white linen dress of an ordinary priest; so Christ laid aside His royal robes and garbed Himself with humanity and offered sacrifice, Himself the priest, Himself the victim. As the high priest, after performing his service in the holy of holies, came forth to the waiting congregation in his pontifical robes; so Christ will come the second time, clothed in garments of whitest white, "so as no fuller on earth can white them." Mark 9:3. He will come in His own glory, and in the glory of His Father, and all the angelic host will escort Him on His way.
                                                                           34
 {AA 33.3} 
     Thus will be fulfilled Christ's promise to His disciples, "I will come again, and receive you unto Myself." John 14:3. Those who have loved Him and waited for Him, He will crown with glory and honor and immortality. The righteous dead will come forth from their graves, and those who are alive will be caught up with them to meet the Lord in the air. They will hear the voice of Jesus, sweeter than any music that ever fell on mortal ear, saying to them, Your warfare is accomplished. "Come, ye blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world." Matthew 25:34.  {AA 34.1}
     Well might the disciples rejoice in the hope of their Lord's return.  {AA 34.2} 

RSS

Site Sponsors

 

Adventist Single?
Meet other Single
Adventists here:
Join Free


USA members:

Support AO by
using this link:
Amazon.com

 

© 2019   Created by Clark P.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service